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Subject: The Arguement for the Sucession of The Flood
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My 5th alt. I have been here since about 2006 (mabye 2007 my memory is geting crappy)

While Bungie may own this website and thereby the flood, it has no ownership of the floodian nation. The nation of the flood is not a nation in the sense of France or Sweden (perhaps for the better) but rather a nation in the sense that floodians are all bound to their homeland, the flood, and by a sense of unity. The Flood is a community of people with it's own values just like any community that exists. For a "foreign" entity such as the Bungie Moderation to enforce rules without the consent of the governed will naturally create tensions between the two groups that will only lead to unstable as seen in past with events such as porch day and the infamous "yellow scare".

Additionally, bungie gains no benefit from the moderation of the flood. While some may argue that they gain no benefit from the existence of the flood, this arrangement is flawed as it assumes that the flood is the source of instability in the Halo forums rather then a symptom. The existence of the flood gives would-be flamers an incentive to avoid trouble. Without a venue to discuss what they want to discuss, why shouldn't the flamer simply spam the halo forum for his amusement? The Flood gives him a reason to contribute to the community, by giving him a community to contribute to. Why would someone whose interest in discussing halo has faded, not troll the halo forums if he had no other topic to discuss. Even if these problems may have not led to the creation of the flood, they would inevitably result from it's deletion. So to even contemplate the deletion of the flood is a fool's errand.

While bungie benefits from the existence of the flood, it gains nothing from moderating it. The moderation of the flood overburdens the Moderation staff, distracting it from higher priorities such as the reach forum. The rules that Bungie enforces exist at both the expense of The Flood and Bungie. The rules forbade political threads when these threads serve only to enhance the quality of the thread while allowing the discussion of Video game comparison threads and "pony" threads that serve to lessen the overall quality of The Flood. The motto "you have no rights" serves to underline this blatantly obvious fact, the current system of laws that govern The Flood do not exist to improve it,rather, The Flood exists inspite of these rules, prospering when the Floodian culture is allowed to govern it's self.

However, the Flood can not exist in a state of Anarchy, rather the "state" and the "flood" must become one organic unit, with the values of The Flood being the same as the Rules of the Flood. Floodians ought to elect their moderators who in turn draft the rules. The Rules ought to set a higher standard of quality while liberalizing the range of topics that may be discussed. The individuals who debunk a topic will be punished rather than the topic it's self. Perhaps the best example of a state of organic unity can be found prior to the "Yellow Scare". I recall, that the laws of the flood were enforced by the floodians rather then the moderators. Armor avatars were discouraged to distinguish the identity of the flood from other forums, along with other cultural laws that were enforced. I remember the best incident of this when one poster who claimed that he had the most attractive girlfriend by posting a picture of his girlfriend was debunked by The Flood when it was found out that he had posted a picture of a girl that was infact not his girlfriend,it is note worthy that this thread went into it's seventeenth page before being locked.

So I post this humble petition that it may be considered by the Bungie Staff. I have broken no rules by it as I have posted it in the community forum without injury or insult being assigned to any specific member of the community. If there is anyone who would suggest that it is indeed breaking the rules to debate the community on the community forums then I would have to point out to them that it is perfectly reasonable, nay encouraged, to debate Halo on the Halo forum. I have done nothing but suggest an alteration of the current state of the community which is indeed the purpose of the community forums. So if what I am doing is wrong, if the cause of a democratically independent flood is wrong, then all causes are wrong and all who post on the community thread are wrong. So therefore I only ask that Bungie consider what I have posted and that the autoimmunity discuss it with the civility that it deserves.

  • 08.13.2011 3:40 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten

What?

The Flood is fine. :p

  • 08.13.2011 3:42 PM PDT
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My 5th alt. I have been here since about 2006 (mabye 2007 my memory is geting crappy)


Posted by: spartain ken 15
What?

The Flood is fine. :p
And yet it can be improved

  • 08.13.2011 3:44 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Are you trying to draft a Declaration of Independence?

  • 08.13.2011 3:45 PM PDT
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My 5th alt. I have been here since about 2006 (mabye 2007 my memory is geting crappy)


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Are you trying to draft a Declaration of Independence?

No, just suggest a change and support that change with reasons.

  • 08.13.2011 3:46 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Are you trying to draft a Declaration of Independence?


viva le revolution!!!

oh wait...

  • 08.13.2011 3:48 PM PDT

TL;DR? I only read about a quarter of the way down. Yes I know I'm lazy.

  • 08.13.2011 3:49 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.


Posted by: Dagny Taggart

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Are you trying to draft a Declaration of Independence?

No, just suggest a change and support that change with reasons.

You are suggesting that a particular forum is not a sub-set of the public forums and deserves (for what reason I can't seem to grasp) to be treated as an independent and self-governing group.

This site (and our hosts) have the ability for any collection of members to do just that, private groups.

But the idea that the public forums are all created equal but that one is "more equal" than the others is, at least to me, a non-sequitur.

  • 08.13.2011 3:50 PM PDT

Unlikely, but I applaud the amount of effort you put into it.

  • 08.13.2011 3:50 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Also, in the title you use the term "Sucession" which appears to imply the next step of growth for the forum or did you typo the term "secession" which indicates that you think that it should divorce itself from the other portions of this site?

  • 08.13.2011 3:54 PM PDT

I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me.
--Ralph Ellison

While there may be some merit to having forum-specific Ninjas, what you're suggesting is highly impractical.

  • 08.13.2011 3:56 PM PDT
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My 5th alt. I have been here since about 2006 (mabye 2007 my memory is geting crappy)


Posted by: Recon Number 54

Posted by: Dagny Taggart

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Are you trying to draft a Declaration of Independence?

No, just suggest a change and support that change with reasons.

You are suggesting that a particular forum is not a sub-set of the public forums and deserves (for what reason I can't seem to grasp) to be treated as an independent and self-governing group.

This site (and our hosts) have the ability for any collection of members to do just that, private groups.

But the idea that the public forums are all created equal but that one is "more equal" than the others is, at least to me, a non-sequitur.
That's one way of looking at it, but you have to take in mind that bungie needs to moderate the Halo Forums so they can cipher through the rubbage to find the valuable suggestions they need to make the game better. Bungie needs The Flood to make this job easier but they don't need to moderate The Flood it's self. Yet it is still a bad idea to leave The Flood in an anarchic state so it would be better to allow The Flood to be governed by it's own set of rules that coninside (yes, that is the incorrect spelling I know) with the values it has as a community.

  • 08.13.2011 3:57 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

We should free the ninjas also.

  • 08.13.2011 3:57 PM PDT

Since you cannot do good to all, you are to pay special attention to those who, by the accidents of time, or place, or circumstances, are brought into closer connection with you.
Augustine of Hippo

I can't prove it, but I can say it.
Stephen Colbert

i am not shawn from youtube, I created this username because I thought it was an unique name but if I could change it I would since it did not belong to me originally

Mind you post a brief summary of your post?

From Recon's post it appears that you are drafting a "declaration of independence" from the Bungie forum am I wrong?

IMO the Flood should be heavily moderated, or nuked. Even though I roam the Flood forums a handful of the Floodian community are quite similar to those similar ( according to my speculation ) that of 4chan.

  • 08.13.2011 3:58 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

haha what

The Flood is a forum on Bungie.net.

  • 08.13.2011 3:58 PM PDT
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My 5th alt. I have been here since about 2006 (mabye 2007 my memory is geting crappy)


Posted by: KoO 101
While there may be some merit to having forum-specific Ninjas, what you're suggesting is highly impractical.
Just the opposite, the moderators would be able to moderate the Halo Forums better if the task of moderating The Flood was left to The Flood.

  • 08.13.2011 3:58 PM PDT

Key

Moderation of the Flood is necessary. The Flood is part of the Halo community and those who say otherwise are excessively ignorant. OT:TF is not just a place for people to spout off useless bull-blam!- and vent because they're mommy wants them to do homework instead of playing on the computer.

OT:TF is designed for, was designed for, and, in future updates, will always be designed for the discussion of anything at all that does not fit the criteria of topics allowed to be posted in any of the other forums, as defined by forums ninjas such as Recon you see there^^.

Anyone who treats the flood as a playground within which one can say whatever one wants and rules are just suggestions should be reported and banned. The latter half of that is only do-able by one specific minority of the Halo community, forum ninjas and bungie employees.

And so, in summation and conclusion, we need moderation of the flood forum by Forum Ninjas or it will fall apart as it is an integrated part of the Bungie.net community.

Think of this as a "Declaratory Act" in response to your "Declaration of Rights and Grievances". (This is, of course, using American Revolutionary period documents as metaphorical parallels)

  • 08.13.2011 3:58 PM PDT

I see you have put a lot of thought into this.

Very legit.

Honestly, I believe a totally independent Flood Forum would be very chaotic. If you are asking for a forum independent from moderators and Bungie members, you are also setting up a target for hackers and "John cena" posters.

The mods, as I have noticed, tend to leave some of the Food's more "inappropriate" threads unlocked, yet lock other threads containing minor offenses, and blacklisting the Ops. Although this is annoying to people like me, it still shows order and function. As for the mods, they are not required to be on the b.net 24/7, so for them to lock one thread with a minor offense, and leave one with a major offense unlocked is understandable. One might have popped up while most of the mods were offline.

My point is this. If the Flood had no moderators, and was totally independent, there would be A LOT more of those perverted/-blam!-/rule-breaker threads. At the least, while the mods might seem harsh at times, they do show that some order will always be available in this forum. Their actions, whether or not seem too strict or bothersome to posters, keep the forum stable. If the trolls and perverts knew Bungie and the mods were no longer moderating the Flood, there would probably be hacks left and right, "John cena" links everywhere, and more.


If you are looking for a place to discuss Halo/non-Halo stuff, you could always make your own website. It could be a purely disscussion site where users post threads much like the Flood allows. It would be independent, and you would hold the keys to your own kingdom.

Also, asking Bungie for the Flood is a little much. They made this site and the forums on it.



Your ideas are interesting, but I believe the Flood is far better off as a dependent forum. Have a nice day. :D

  • 08.13.2011 4:00 PM PDT


Posted by: VenomfangX
Mind you post a brief summary of your post?

From Recon's post it appears that you are drafting a "declaration of independence" from the Bungie forum am I wrong?

IMO the Flood should be heavily moderated, or nuked. Even though I roam the Flood forums a handful of the Floodian community are quite similar to those similar ( according to my speculation ) that of 4chan.

I'm a Floodian regular actually. I've heard that many of the users are 4chan users as well. Plus, most of the threads are about My Little Pony and Battlefield Vs CoD *debates

*flame wars

I wouldn't mind if the Flood was nuked to be honest.

[Edited on 08.13.2011 4:01 PM PDT]

  • 08.13.2011 4:00 PM PDT
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My 5th alt. I have been here since about 2006 (mabye 2007 my memory is geting crappy)


Posted by: VenomfangX
Mind you post a brief summary of your post?

Look at my rebuttal to Recon's points.

From Recon's post it appears that you are drafting a "declaration of independence" from the Bungie forum am I wrong?

It is easier to compare it to "Common Sense"


the Flood should be heavily moderated, or nuked. Even though I roam the Flood forums a handful of the Floodian community are quite similar to those similar ( according to my speculation ) that of 4chan.

I agree, however I feel that this moderation does not focus enough on raising the quality of the community. If anything the prohibition of political threads is incremental to the quality of the community discussion.

  • 08.13.2011 4:01 PM PDT

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If the Flood was truly a cohesive unit that felt like the rules of the public forums disenfranchised them they could form a private group with it's own forum governed by their own rules. The real reality of the Flood is that it is a lose collection of people with wildly different viewpoints that post in that forum because it is a public forum and it would be near impossible to gather them all into one self-governed private group because of their differences.

  • 08.13.2011 4:02 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC

We should hold up in the flood and fight bungie. Alamo style.

  • 08.13.2011 4:04 PM PDT

I spend too much time here.. too much time indeed.

I tweet?

So I just read what amounts to 5 nicely written paragraphs arguing that The Flood should be allowed to become that which it already tries to emulate, 4chan?

Spin it any way you like, but you're stuck under the roof of Bungie and bound by its moderation staff and its rules. The only unity The Flood has is the one that believes it should be treated any different than the rest of the forums, aside from that you all couldn't agree on toppings on a pizza.

[Edited on 08.13.2011 4:06 PM PDT]

  • 08.13.2011 4:05 PM PDT


Posted by: EAGLES5
We should hold up in the flood and fight bungie. Alamo style.

I lol'd


...you do know what happened there, right?

  • 08.13.2011 4:05 PM PDT

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. And it is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves the flag, whose coffin is draped in the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag.Father Dennis Edward O'Brien, USMC


Posted by: Kyle Knight

Posted by: EAGLES5
We should hold up in the flood and fight bungie. Alamo style.

I lol'd


...you do know what happened there, right?


Legands where born. And John Wayne became a god... duh!

  • 08.13.2011 4:07 PM PDT

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