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This topic has moved here: Subject: Tyranids vs. Zerg. vs. Flood vs. Xenomorphs vs. Necromorphs?
  • Subject: Tyranids vs. Zerg. vs. Flood vs. Xenomorphs vs. Necromorphs?
Subject: Tyranids vs. Zerg. vs. Flood vs. Xenomorphs vs. Necromorphs?

Generally, contact with the Tyranids occurs when a Hive Fleet invades a system for the purpose of harvesting its bio-mass. A Hive Fleet contains an enormous number of Tyranids, and they are brought to bear against resistance in the most efficient manner possible. Below is a general outline of a typical Tyranid planetary assault (in particular, this data is collected from the Tyranid invasion of Dalki-Prime)1:
Day 00: Initial mycetic spores are dropped, generally containing Lictors or Genestealers. Infiltration force led by a synapse creature of some kind; reproduction of Tyranid creatures likely begins immediately.
Day 09: By day 9, Tyranids will have expanded to around 200 km from the drop point, and will likely present a significant threat to planetary defence forces troopers and resident Imperial Guard.
Day 13: Tyranids will have expanded to 700 km from the drop point; may begin infesting local water sources.
Day 37: Tyranids control area within 2000 km radius of the drop point; basolithic infestation to 5000 km radius.
Day 48: Tyranid population growth skyrockets, with population doubling approximately every 2.5 days.
Day 50: Main Hive Fleet arrives, craft generally numbering around 1.5 billion. Psychic contact with planet is cut off by the shadow of the Hive Mind. Any attempts to escape are quickly stopped by the Hive Fleet.
Day 51: Primary consumption of bio-mass begins (resistance has generally been eliminated by day 51). Brood ships land, releasing Ripper swarms, which consume all remaining organic material and depositing them at the reclamation pools. Capillary towers (and the Brood ships) send the material into orbit.
Day 80: The hive ships descend into the upper atmosphere and begin collecting it. Reduction in atmospheric pressure causes oceans to boil away, which are also collected. Lack of oceans causes plate tectonic shifts, dramatically increasing volcanic activity. Upon completion, the Hive Fleet move out of the system in search of fresh prey.
Day 100: Imperial navy arrives in response to the distress call to find the world lifeless.

I think this clears thing up a bit. Also, This: http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Tyranids

[Edited on 08.14.2011 5:35 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 5:34 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: DarkBen64

Posted by: FTW 1997
You obviously Are in the wrong forum...
This forum is for old bungie games and for halo canon...
What u just said is the oposite of what is stated by the game,books.
INFACT flood does learn from its victims....and its told in every game and book that has flood in it...

This makes me think that you have never played halo...
And I'm just curious ....why are you saying things that you actually dont know ?


You clearly don't know anything about the tyranids. The flood can't learn how to use the tyranids guns, because the tyranid IS the gun. Tyranid guns are actually smaller tyranids, as are the bullets. The tyranids can evolve much faster than the flood can learn about whatever it could possibly learn.

Also, the tyranids don't build ships, they don't have 'tech'. Once again, a Tyranid IS the ship. That is why Tyranid ships can literally east other ships. They are massive animals.

I have been playing Halo from the start. Why are you attempting to speak English, when you clearly have a problem doing it?

The Flood cannot beat the tyranids. The Hive Mind is infinitely more powerful than the Gravemind. The Tyranids can evolve in a matter of hours to combat the infection. The flood cannot possible infect every tyranid entity. The tyranids harvest every single speck of biomass to make more tyranids, leaving the planet attacked as bare rock. The tyranids re harvest their own dead back into more tyranids, so the Flood would not be able to infect many tyranid forms, and even if they didm there is far too many tyranids of different types to deal with. I would love to see a couple of combat forms try to take town a Hive tyrant, or a Biotitan.


-Same with the Flood or did you forgot the fact that the Flood had biological weapons like spores,spikes or big balloon bombs in Halo Wars.
Bull-blam!-, the Flood supercell allows them to adapt to any situation and allows them to create ANY organ they need.

Source is the bestiarium on wayppoint,you can offcourse read the halopedian page.

-And the Flood is a single organism known as the Gravemind

-Prove it that the Hive mind is stronger the the Gravemind.Everything you just said is done by the Flood too.Look at High Charity,the Flood got biomass out of an artificial planetoid,it wasn't even a fertile planet. Or just look at the Halo Wars shield world,it's barren as hell full of Flood buildings that can regenrate after sustaining damage and can even throw more Flood at you.

If you watched Halo legends origins,you see Flood forms the size of Forerunner Dreadnaughts.

It takes more then a month for the nids to fully infect a planet,it only takes a few days for the Flood to do the same.

  • 08.14.2011 5:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: DarkBen64

The tyranids can evolve much faster than the flood can learn about whatever it could possibly learn.


No, it can't.
The Flood need only to consume the mind of a Tyranid organism to gain information from it (infact, as they are all linked to the hive-mind Flood subversion of one 'individual' could net the Gravemind a whole lot of information).

Tyranid 'evolution' is bioengineering, which takes time. They can produce counters to Imperium tactics and equipment, but don't do so particularly fast, being faster than the Imperium on a tech-race type level isn't impressive as the Imperium is very inflexible and resistant to change (for political/chaos reasons, so understandable).


Also, the tyranids don't build ships, they don't have 'tech'. Once again, a Tyranid IS the ship. That is why Tyranid ships can literally east other ships. They are massive animals.


I'm not sure why them being a biological starship will really help you against an aggressive biological homogenising swarm object like the Flood...


The Flood cannot beat the tyranids. The Hive Mind is infinitely more powerful than the Gravemind.

This is completely unquantifyable.
Your opinion is purely subjective, I can't think of any demonstrated capabilities of the hive-mind that would allow it to do anything of use other than direct troops, what are you basing this statement on?

The Tyranids can evolve in a matter of hours to combat the infection.

If you are trying to suggest they could become immune to Flood infection in hours, then I'd have to say I think that's pretty unlikely.

The flood cannot possible infect every tyranid entity.

They don't need to, they didn't infect every Forerunner either, not even close.

The tyranids re harvest their own dead back into more tyranids, so the Flood would not be able to infect many tyranid forms, and even if they didm there is far too many tyranids of different types to deal with.

This would depend on the Tyranids winning that particular ground battle, in this case whoever wins gets the biomass of the loser...

This will mainly be determined in space though, where the Flood's Forerunner vessels will be a massive advantage.

I would love to see a couple of combat forms try to take town a Hive tyrant, or a Biotitan.

I'd put very good odds on a Floodified war sphinx, or Flood-controlled builder security units being able to flatten the Tyranids on the ground, Forerunner ground equipment is very good.

If there were native populations, the tyranids would have already consumed them and all of the planet's biomass to make, yup, you guessed it, more tyranids.

The Flood has a far higher spread rate than the Tyranids.
Even the IOM, which is lumbering and slow as far as the strategic scale goes, can rally and push back the Tyranids.


*snip codex*
Day 50: Main Hive Fleet arrives, craft generally numbering around 1.5 billion. Psychic contact with planet is cut off by the shadow of the Hive Mind. Any attempts to escape are quickly stopped by the Hive Fleet.


So it takes a Hive Fleet 50-ish days to fully overrun an Imperium world, let's compare that to the Flood:

[LP 656-38 e]. 9,045 survivors
barricaded within central government
building. Structure's defenses
inadequate to withstand extended
siege by enemy ground forces
(1,572,034,315+). Estimate
position overrun in [173 hours].

846 smaller groups in less
defensible structures: global
distribution corresponding to
[probability model zeta].
Estimated local position overrun
in [9 hours] (average).


As you can see it is estimated that most positions will be overwhelmed in merely 9 hours, with the 'central government building' withstanding the seige for perhaps a week.

And this isn't some Imperium vassel-world being overrun, it's a world part of the Forerunner Ecumen, it's far more advanced.

In short, anything the Nids can do, Forerunner-war era Flood can do faster.

  • 08.14.2011 5:59 AM PDT

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Hive_Mind

The Hive Mind is so great it leaves a shadow in the very fabric of space and the Warp. It controls trillions upon trillions of forces inside this galaxy and out, and every single psyker in the imperium to ever had contact with the Hive Mind has died, with the exception of one.

Spores, spikes and bomb balloons mean nothing compared to the armament that Tyranids can bring to bear. The Tyranids digestive tract can digest the strongest alloys and materials. The Hive Mind bends and distorts the gravity of space to launch an entire hive fleet into faster than light speeds. Bear in mind a hive fleet consists of billions upon billions of ships.

It takes a month for tyranids to tak over a planet offering resistance, and the flood can only assimilate sentient life, the tyranids assimilate EVERYTHING, soil, oceans, microbes, and the attacks blow the atmosphere off the planet.

They can mutate to deal with heir surroundings in a matter of hours. The Hive Mind is far more cunning than the Gravemind. there were genestealers in the galaxy hundreds of years before first contact with the hive fleets.

The hive fleets are putting a stranglehold on the galaxy, and the fleets that are known are merely the tyranids tentatively looking inside the galaxy, and yet that is trillions upon trillions of ships, each containing millions upon millions of tyranids.

The flood cannot infect all tyranid organisms, either, the Hivemind could fight the infection, mutate to bring immunisation, or simply eat the infected and recycle their biomass into more tyranids. Bear in mind the IOM virus bombing an entire planet can't stop the tyranids.

  • 08.14.2011 6:02 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: DarkBen64

Posted by: FTW 1997
You obviously Are in the wrong forum...
This forum is for old bungie games and for halo canon...
What u just said is the oposite of what is stated by the game,books.
INFACT flood does learn from its victims....and its told in every game and book that has flood in it...

This makes me think that you have never played halo...
And I'm just curious ....why are you saying things that you actually dont know ?


You clearly don't know anything about the tyranids. The flood can't learn how to use the tyranids guns, because the tyranid IS the gun. Tyranid guns are actually smaller tyranids, as are the bullets. The tyranids can evolve much faster than the flood can learn about whatever it could possibly learn.

Also, the tyranids don't build ships, they don't have 'tech'. Once again, a Tyranid IS the ship. That is why Tyranid ships can literally east other ships. They are massive animals.

I have been playing Halo from the start. Why are you attempting to speak English, when you clearly have a problem doing it?

The Flood cannot beat the tyranids. The Hive Mind is infinitely more powerful than the Gravemind. The Tyranids can evolve in a matter of hours to combat the infection. The flood cannot possible infect every tyranid entity. The tyranids harvest every single speck of biomass to make more tyranids, leaving the planet attacked as bare rock. The tyranids re harvest their own dead back into more tyranids, so the Flood would not be able to infect many tyranid forms, and even if they didm there is far too many tyranids of different types to deal with. I would love to see a couple of combat forms try to take town a Hive tyrant, or a Biotitan.


-Same with the Flood or did you forgot the fact that the Flood had biological weapons like spores,spikes or big balloon bombs in Halo Wars.
Bull-blam!-, the Flood supercell allows them to adapt to any situation and allows them to create ANY organ they need.

Source is the bestiarium on wayppoint,you can offcourse read the halopedian page.

-And the Flood is a single organism known as the Gravemind

-Prove it that the Hive mind is stronger the the Gravemind.Everything you just said is done by the Flood too.Look at High Charity,the Flood got biomass out of an artificial planetoid,it wasn't even a fertile planet. Or just look at the Halo Wars shield world,it's barren as hell full of Flood buildings that can regenrate after sustaining damage and can even throw more Flood at you.

If you watched Halo legends origins,you see Flood forms the size of Forerunner Dreadnaughts.

It takes more then a month for the nids to fully infect a planet,it only takes a few days for the Flood to do the same.


The Flood's biological weapons are nowhere near on par with what the Tyranids have to offer, they can terraform slowly and make small explosions, but for the main part, all the Flood has is the ability to infect.
The Flood would be vastly outnumbered by the Tyranids too, a Tyranid invasion force (A very minor part of the entire Tyranid race) numbers in billions of live ships, these live ships housing trillions of Tyranids with devestating weapons and adaptations, the Flood are limited to being little ballons of doom, unless they can find sufficient biomass to fuel the war effort. Even if they managed to infect some of the Tyranid forces, it's likely that the hive fleet would quickly adapt and form a resistance to infection, rendering the Flood's only real offensive measure useless.
Both the Flood and the Tyranids are terrifying foes that could bring man to the brink of extinction, but they are from entirely different universes. The Flood are for a universe in which humanity numbers in the lower billions with relatively simple technology, and are a threat to match this. But the Tyranids are from a universe in which humanity numbers in the trillions, with millions of planets settled, awe inspiring technology, and a multitude of other races with other such advantages.
The Tyranids need to be able to take on a galaxy in a perpetual war of a gargantuan and terrifying scale, the Flood need to be able to take on a weak humanity and the Covenant. Admittedly they took on the Forerunners too, but this can be attributed to things other than sheer force, ancient humanity beat the Flood and "only" lost a third of their race. They're designed differently for story purposes.

Also, Hive Mind > Gravemind, purely because the Hivemind is always there, and does not need to be formed to lead, in addition to the benefit of psychic powers.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 6:12 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 6:08 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!

Also, am I the only one who feels sorry for the poor Xenomorphs?
They just can't compete with these guys, poor lil' fellas.

  • 08.14.2011 6:16 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

The Flood would be vastly outnumbered by the Tyranids too, a Tyranid invasion force (A very minor part of the entire Tyranid race) numbers in billions of live ships, these live ships housing trillions of Tyranids with devestating weapons and adaptations, the Flood are limited to being little ballons of doom, unless they can find sufficient biomass to fuel the war effort.

Congratulation ,you just put the tyranids on their full power and the Flood to specimens on Halo. Read the OP again both sides are at full power which means the Flood have everything they ever had . Just watch Halo legends,that dreadnaught sized beast would swarm over the smaller tyranids forms with ease.

Even if they managed to infect some of the Tyranid forces, it's likely that the hive fleet would quickly adapt and form a resistance to infection, rendering the Flood's only real offensive measure useless.


Well you will have to prove that they can do it.
The nids eat their prey right?Which will be their downfall as dead Flood parts can still infect.

Both the Flood and the Tyranids are terrifying foes that could bring man to the brink of extinction, but they are from entirely different universes. The Flood are for a universe in which humanity numbers in the lower billions with relatively simple technology, and are a threat to match this. But the Tyranids are from a universe in which humanity numbers in the trillions, with millions of planets settled, awe inspiring technology, and a multitude of other races with other such advantages.


You ever heard of the Forerunner-Flood war?Where the Flood put the Forerunners on their knees,the same empire that destroys the crust of the planet in ground engagement,uses sentinels and still has troubles against the Flood.
The Forerunners themselfs would slap the imperium from the milky way to Andromeda.

The Tyranids need to be able to take on a galaxy in a perpetual war of a gargantuan and terrifying scale, the Flood need to be able to take on a weak humanity and the Covenant. Admittedly they took on the Forerunners too, but this can be attributed to things other than sheer force, ancient humanity beat the Flood and "only" lost a third of their race. They're designed differently for story purposes.


The Flood that fought the ancient Humans were zombies and weren't even on the same level as the Flood who fought the 4runners.

Also, Hive Mind > Gravemind, purely because the Hivemind is always there, and does not need to be formed to lead, in addition to the benefit of psychic powers.

Prove it.
If you kill the hivemind then the entire tyranids species is pretty much screwed. The gravemind=the Flood
There are no individuals in their species,it's one single macroorganism.


  • 08.14.2011 6:34 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: DarkBen64
The Hive Mind is so great it leaves a shadow in the very fabric of space and the Warp.


That's because in 40K every living thing affects the warp, it's a function of the Warp and the number of Tyranids 'drowning everything else out' locally rather than some quantification of power.

every single psyker in the imperium to ever had contact with the Hive Mind has died, with the exception of one.

The fact that one mere human has managed this should suggest that the Hive Mind won't be telepathically murdering the Gravemind anytime soon.

Spores, spikes and bomb balloons mean nothing compared to the armament that Tyranids can bring to bear.

The Flood will be using Forerunner equipment as OP stipulates at 'maximum power' for all factions, hence Forerunner-war era Flood.

The Hive Mind bends and distorts the gravity of space to launch an entire hive fleet into faster than light speeds. Bear in mind a hive fleet consists of billions upon billions of ships.

Nope, that's a Narvhal.

It takes a month for tyranids to tak over a planet offering resistance, and the flood can only assimilate sentient life, the tyranids assimilate EVERYTHING, soil, oceans, microbes, and the attacks blow the atmosphere off the planet.

9 HOURS.

For a resisting Forerunner world, the Forerunner are very advanced, with very powerful millitary, you may have heard of them.

The Hive Mind is far more cunning than the Gravemind. there were genestealers in the galaxy hundreds of years before first contact with the hive fleets.

When the Hive mind has talked a massively capable millitary AI into betraying it's civilisation get back to me.

The hive fleets are putting a stranglehold on the galaxy, and the fleets that are known are merely the tyranids tentatively looking inside the galaxy, and yet that is trillions upon trillions of ships, each containing millions upon millions of tyranids.

Yet the IOM, which, y'know, has a few million ships, can hold them off and preserve the status quo.

The flood cannot infect all tyranid organisms,

They don't need to, they can kill them all from orbit.

either, the Hivemind could fight the infection, mutate to bring immunisation, or simply eat the infected and recycle their biomass into more tyranids. Bear in mind the IOM virus bombing an entire planet can't stop the tyranids.

And your proof that any of that is even a possible tactic for using on the Flood is.... where.. exactly?

  • 08.14.2011 6:39 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

Spores, spikes and bomb balloons mean nothing compared to the armament that Tyranids can bring to bear. The Tyranids digestive tract can digest the strongest alloys and materials. The Hive Mind bends and distorts the gravity of space to launch an entire hive fleet into faster than light speeds. Bear in mind a hive fleet consists of billions upon billions of ships.


Ah too bad.In this area i can't bring much about the Floods own weapons cuz the Pure form species had never been detailed anyway save a few glimpes of their capacity in Legends.
But that's why we have the combat forms were the stolen weapons.

It takes a month for tyranids to tak over a planet offering resistance, and the flood can only assimilate sentient life, the tyranids assimilate EVERYTHING, soil, oceans, microbes, and the attacks blow the atmosphere off the planet.


Not true,anything with biomass or calcium will be assimilated by the Flood too.Hell even an artificial construct like High Charity can give the Flood everything they need let alone a habitable planet.

They can mutate to deal with heir surroundings in a matter of hours. The Hive Mind is far more cunning than the Gravemind. there were genestealers in the galaxy hundreds of years before first contact with the hive fleets.


Prove it that the hive mind is more "cunning".The gravemind convinced a super Forerunner AI to join their ranks without the use of brutal power,he just used his intelligence.Said AI was the most powerful of the Forerunner Empire and far more advanced then anything seen in 40k.

The flood cannot infect all tyranid organisms, either, the Hivemind could fight the infection, mutate to bring immunisation, or simply eat the infected and recycle their biomass into more tyranids. Bear in mind the IOM virus bombing an entire planet can't stop the tyranids


Can you give any evidence that the nids have something comparable to teh Flood supercell

  • 08.14.2011 6:43 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!

It's very difficult to compare full power though, it's not known just how huge the Tyranid's numbers really are, seeing as we've only encountered the very tendrils of their scouting forces. But they've taken out thousands of galaxies before reaching the Milky Way, the same could be said for the Flood however, we have no clue about what their situation was outside this galaxy, or if they have forces elsewhere. Full power, I'm going to assume is the sort of situation you see with a Gravemind, and a multitude of biomass to make all their forms. They're limited to the number of ships they can capture for space battles. That dreadnaught size beast has to capture a dreadnought first, and build around it, the Tyranids have untold millions of live ships of a similar size, if not bigger.

They do not consume their prey directly, either. They melt it down in vast acid pools, and absorb it in to their fleet, I doubt the dead cells could survive vats of acid.

I doubt the Forerunners could beat the Imperium at it's height of power, and the Imperium isn't the only force in the 40k universe. This, admittedly is personal opinion, we can't really know, but I've always seen 40k as a future on steroids, whilst Halo seems to be a more potentially realistic future.

The Hive Mind isn't an individual, either, it's the combination of the psychic presence of all Tyranid organisms, to kill it, you must kill all the Tyranids. Pretty similar to the Flood, really, but the Gravemind needs a physical presence.


[Edited on 08.14.2011 6:51 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 6:46 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Fin
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: Iron Benny x

[The Flood's biological weapons are nowhere near on par with what the Tyranids have to offer, they can terraform slowly and make small explosions, but for the main part, all the Flood has is the ability to infect.
The Flood would be vastly outnumbered by the Tyranids too, a Tyranid invasion force (A very minor part of the entire Tyranid race) numbers in billions of live ships, these live ships housing trillions of Tyranids with devestating weapons and adaptations, the Flood are limited to being little ballons of doom, unless they can find sufficient biomass to fuel the war effort.


The OP has each race at their height, so it would be Forerunner-war era Flood.

As in Flood with Forerunner ships and equipment. The Forerunner are on a whole other level compared to most 40K races. Their stolen Forerunner fleet will win this for them.

Even if they managed to infect some of the Tyranid forces, it's likely that the hive fleet would quickly adapt and form a resistance to infection, rendering the Flood's only real offensive measure useless.

Flood infection is apparently very dificult to limit, the Forerunner couldn't do it, SuperEarlyHumanity did, at the cost of using 1/3rd of their people as a vector...

The Flood are for a universe in which humanity numbers in the lower billions with relatively simple technology, and are a threat to match this. But the Tyranids are from a universe in which humanity numbers in the trillions, with millions of planets settled, awe inspiring technology, and a multitude of other races with other such advantages.

See my earlier point about the Era of the Flood here.

The Tyranids need to be able to take on a galaxy in a perpetual war of a gargantuan and terrifying scale, the Flood need to be able to take on a weak humanity and the Covenant. Admittedly they took on the Forerunners too, but this can be attributed to things other than sheer force, ancient humanity beat the Flood and "only" lost a third of their race. They're designed differently for story purposes.

The Flood has taken a Galaxy before, from foes more advanced and powerful than the Imperium, or the Eldar, or Tau.



As to feeling sorry for the Xenomorphs.... yes... poor critters...

  • 08.14.2011 6:54 AM PDT

The hivemind is far more cunning. It has to be, it's launching multipronged attacks on the galaxy and on each individual battlefield at the same time, while constantly evolving the tyranids.

Keep in mind that several of the physical manifests of the hivemind are geniuses, from the parasite of mordrex (sp?) to a swarmlord.

Which, by the way, are impossible to kill, as they constantly reincarnate.
Also, planet defence forces have been completely obliterated by nothing but ripper swarms which are little worms normally used for consuming biomass after an invasion. The parasite of mordrex played a part in that. The flood cannot infect rippers.

  • 08.14.2011 7:00 AM PDT

Eldar are more advanced than forerunners.

  • 08.14.2011 7:01 AM PDT

I am not familiar with the other races but I know the flood at there most powerful would be a very large number of ships, at least one halo ring, a couple planets, and all their inhabitants, and practically a factory of flood juggernauts, infection forms, and H3 forms not to mention a number of other flood species realeased. I think the flood have a pretty good chance at winning.

  • 08.14.2011 7:04 AM PDT

The hive mind uses the narvhals to channel the energy. Find a hive mind wiki/wikia page, it says there

  • 08.14.2011 7:06 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!

Posted by: Fin5434p
The Flood has taken a Galaxy before, from foes more advanced and powerful than the Imperium, or the Eldar, or Tau.


Not that I'm doubting your word on this, but where did ya read this lil' bit of information? I've not seen this said before.

Anyway, if you're going on full power Forerunner Era Flood, then the Tyranids should rightly be given the full power of all their Hive Fleets, seen and yet unseen, which I do believe would -still- vastly outnumber the Flood, and could take apart the infected Forerunner fleet through pure attrition. As I recall, the majority of the infected Forerunner fleet comprised of converted civilian vessels? Whilst each Tyranid ship is created for war. Correct me if I'm wrong, mind.

Also, a thing I've been pondering, just how sharp the infection forms' tendrils are? For instance, the only reason they were able to pierce Master Chief's armour was due to the vunerable neck seal. I can imagine that they'd have great trouble piercing the metal-esque chitin carapace of the Tyranid forms (Assuming that this covers the entirety of their body), leaving one of the Flood's greatest weapons at a loss.
Also, they'd be unable to gain any knowledge from infected forms, assuming they could, as without the Hive Mind, the vast majority of Tyranid forms are mindless beasts. So, they'll have no insight in to the plans and tactics of the Tyranids, nor would they have a formerly Tyranid military AI who had the knowledge of all this, seeing as the Tyranids have none.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 7:09 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 7:06 AM PDT


Posted by: firecrakcer
I am not familiar with the other races but I know the flood at there most powerful would be a very large number of ships, at least one halo ring, a couple planets, and all their inhabitants, and practically a factory of flood juggernauts, infection forms, and H3 forms not to mention a number of other flood species realeased. I think the flood have a pretty good chance at winning.


U haven't a clue on the sheer scale of the tyranids

  • 08.14.2011 7:07 AM PDT

Posted by: DarkBen64
The hivemind is far more cunning. It has to be, it's launching multipronged attacks on the galaxy and on each individual battlefield at the same time, while constantly evolving the tyranids.

Can you explain how is that different from the Gravemind during the Forerunner-Flood War?

  • 08.14.2011 7:08 AM PDT

because the hivemind is operating outside the galaxy, possibly dealing with battles in other galaxies, on a much larger scale, controlling far more aliens.
Posted by: Vercetti24
Posted by: DarkBen64
The hivemind is far more cunning. It has to be, it's launching multipronged attacks on the galaxy and on each individual battlefield at the same time, while constantly evolving the tyranids.

Can you explain how is that different from the Gravemind during the Forerunner-Flood War?


I love how this battle has been posted on other places other than the bungie forums and every time the tyranids come out on top.

  • 08.14.2011 7:12 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!

Posted by: Vercetti24
Posted by: DarkBen64
The hivemind is far more cunning. It has to be, it's launching multipronged attacks on the galaxy and on each individual battlefield at the same time, while constantly evolving the tyranids.

Can you explain how is that different from the Gravemind during the Forerunner-Flood War?


Though I'm fully in support of the Tyranids being the victor in such a battle, I'd have to say that the Gravemind would prove more intelligent than the Hive Mind.
The Hive Mind is a vast bestial psychic presence controlling a predatory race, tactics and adapations are instinctive (I personally see it as a rapid version of evolution, adapting to changes naturally, and not through conscious choice), though there's definitely intelligence within the Hive Mind, I've seen nothing to indicate that it's on the scale of the Gravemind's, more an animal cunning. The Tyranids consume and move on, the Flood consumes, assimilates and learns.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 7:14 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 7:13 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: Iron Benny x
It's very difficult to compare full power though, it's not known just how huge the Tyranid's numbers really are, seeing as we've only encountered the very tendrils of their scouting forces. But they've taken out thousands of galaxies before reaching the Milky Way,


While it's true we don't know the full extent of Tyranid numbers, I've never heard anything to suggest it's 'thousands of galaxies' level.

Full power,

Perhaps we should go with 'full observed power'.

the Tyranids have untold millions of live ships of a similar size, if not bigger.

Size is irrelevant, capability is.
Forerunner vessels can break worlds, their fleets can cause stars to 'go nova' on command.

They do not consume their prey directly, either. They melt it down in vast acid pools, and absorb it in to their fleet, I doubt the dead cells could survive vats of acid.

This would likely work, hence my comment of "whoever wins gets the loser's biomass" earlier.

I doubt the Forerunners could beat the Imperium at it's height of power,

Barring Chaos, and possibly C'tan, The Forerunner could easily take all of 40K. They are very powerful on an individual warrior/ship level, and have very capable technologies as well.


**********************



Posted by: DarkBen64
The hivemind is far more cunning. It has to be, it's launching multipronged attacks on the galaxy and on each individual battlefield at the same time, while constantly evolving the tyranids.


The Gravemind does the exact same thing, every flood form *is* the Gravemind, it's a compound organism.

Keep in mind that several of the physical manifests of the hivemind are geniuses, from the parasite of mordrex (sp?) to a swarmlord.

Which, by the way, are impossible to kill, as they constantly reincarnate.


Irrelevant, all Flood forms are the Gravemind, the Flood is best described as a single meta-organism, it doesn't have individuals to reincarnate, all are directed by the highly intelligent Gravemind.

Also, planet defence forces have been completely obliterated by nothing but ripper swarms which are little worms normally used for consuming biomass after an invasion. The parasite of mordrex played a part in that. The flood cannot infect rippers.

As said, they don't need to, they can merely burn them from orbit.

  • 08.14.2011 7:14 AM PDT

"Hive Fleets travel with superluminal speed, though they never enter the Warp. Instead, by using the specialized psychic power of the a selectively evolved Hive Ship, they manipulate the gravity fields of star system to achieve faster-than-light travel. The massive Warp presence of the Tyranid Hive Mind, however, manifests itself in that realm through the Shadow in the Warp phenomenon. "

That is the sheer power of the Hive Mind.

The physical manifests of the hive Mind I mentioned earlier are numerous, there isn't just one at any one time. If the forerunners tried to fight from space, the tyranids would still eventually win. point is, we're talking about the flood, who without any other sentient species to take over are absolutely useless. In a tyranid vs forerunner battle, the war would be huge and drawn out but the nids would win. in nids vs infected forerunner, the nids would find it easier.

  • 08.14.2011 7:19 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: DarkBen64
because the hivemind is operating outside the galaxy, possibly dealing with battles in other galaxies, on a much larger scale, controlling far more aliens.
Posted by: Vercetti24
Posted by: DarkBen64
The hivemind is far more cunning. It has to be, it's launching multipronged attacks on the galaxy and on each individual battlefield at the same time, while constantly evolving the tyranids.

Can you explain how is that different from the Gravemind during the Forerunner-Flood War?


I love how this battle has been posted on other places other than the bungie forums and every time the tyranids come out on top.


I bet those debaters don't know a -blam!- about the Flood.And which "places" are reffering to?
inb4factpile

  • 08.14.2011 7:22 AM PDT

Offensive tyranid ships:

"Razorfiend Cruiser
A Razorfiend class cruiser is smaller but faster than the hive ships. They are found within fleets and on their own. The Battlefleet Gothic rulebook speaks of them being used as giant, living torpedoes, able to attack without concern for the safety of the individual ships.
Razorfiend class ships are capable of having four major weapons, one on its prow, two on its sides, and one on its "thorax." They are aggressive ships that will leave the main body of a hive fleet to directly attack or pursue nearby enemies, even smashing into enemies and attacking it in a kamikaze-like "melee" manner. For this purpose, some Razorfiend have even evolved massive claws and tentacles to attack enemy ships with, something that is quite unique for the Tyranids in the Battlefleet Gothic system. [2]

[edit]Kraken
A Kraken is a giant escort creature that operates independently from the main hive fleet. They do not seek out planets like other ships nor do they carry troops. However, they do venture wherever they can, devouring ships in their path.
A Kraken is a massive creature with one weapon. They are also very fast and able to turn easily. They are also able to resist and regenerate damage, but are unable to produce spores for defense. Three species of Kraken have been recorded: the Ramsmitter (has a beaked prow), the Deathburner (releases acid at enemies), and the Smeltfeaster.[2]

[edit]Prowler Vanguard Drone
A Prowler class vanguard drone is similar to the Kraken, as they operate far away from the fleets. However, the Vanguard seeks out new worlds for the hive fleet to devour and carries organisms, like Genestealers or Lictors, to infest the world with their cargo. Along with the Tyranid invaders, the Prowler releases spores and other catalysts onto the planet, which dramatically alters the environment in preparation for the oncoming invasion/harvest of the planets resources. Thus, Vanguard drones are often priority targets, as killing enough of them may halt the invasion slightly.
Prowler ships are a smaller ship with only one weapon. They are as fast as Kraken and are able to turn easily. They are attack ships and are able to lead the other ships of the hive fleet towards potential targets. They are rarely found with the main hive fleet, and when they are, they are only loading more cargo to begin further infestations.[2]"

  • 08.14.2011 7:23 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!

Posted by: Fin5434p

the Tyranids have untold millions of live ships of a similar size, if not bigger.

Size is irrelevant, capability is.
Forerunner vessels can break worlds, their fleets can cause stars to 'go nova' on command.



That's a fair point, but the information on Tyranid fleets is fairly limited, and seeing as the Imperium of Man (Aswell as other races) can also break worlds, and cause stars to go nova, with the right application of their might, atleast. I can imagine that the Tyranids have comparable abilities (Due to the whole universe having to have some form of balance what with it being a tabletop game). But the thing is, I can't imagine either side would use it, their purpose is to consume, not to destroy their food. Though I will admit, if one side was to do so, it'd most likely be the Flood due to it's superior intelligence, it'd probably realise that to win it -needed- to destroy the planet.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 7:29 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 7:24 AM PDT