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This topic has moved here: Subject: Tyranids vs. Zerg. vs. Flood vs. Xenomorphs vs. Necromorphs?
  • Subject: Tyranids vs. Zerg. vs. Flood vs. Xenomorphs vs. Necromorphs?
Subject: Tyranids vs. Zerg. vs. Flood vs. Xenomorphs vs. Necromorphs?
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"Usually, the good Lord works in mysterious ways. But not today! This here is 66 tons of straight-up, H.E-spewing dee-vine intervention! If God is love, then you can call me Cupid!"

-Sgt. Johnson, Halo 2

Tyranids.

/thread

  • 08.14.2011 7:25 AM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: DarkBen64
because the hivemind is operating outside the galaxy, possibly dealing with battles in other galaxies, on a much larger scale, controlling far more aliens.
Posted by: Vercetti24
Posted by: DarkBen64
The hivemind is far more cunning. It has to be, it's launching multipronged attacks on the galaxy and on each individual battlefield at the same time, while constantly evolving the tyranids.

Can you explain how is that different from the Gravemind during the Forerunner-Flood War?


I love how this battle has been posted on other places other than the bungie forums and every time the tyranids come out on top.


I bet those debaters don't know a -blam!- about the Flood.And which "places" are reffering to?
inb4factpile


just google tyranids vs flood.

  • 08.14.2011 7:26 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: DarkBen64
Eldar are more advanced than forerunners.


Really?

In what way?

They have more advanced warp-tech, but that's because the Warp doesn't exist in Halo, by every other measure I can think of they are quite inferior.

The hive mind uses the narvhals to channel the energy. Find a hive mind wiki/wikia page, it says there

It uses gravatics though, not psychic voodoo as you implied.

I love how this battle has been posted on other places other than the bungie forums and every time the tyranids come out on top.

Appeal to popularity fallacy, also where? If it's Factpile allow me to laugh....



Instead of merely cut-and-paste of stuff I already know from the Lexicanum, would you care to address either the arguments I have made, or the arguments Revan has made?
We have put a counterpoint to pretty much every one you have made, feel free to respond anytime.

  • 08.14.2011 7:27 AM PDT


Posted by: AJF1177
Tyranids.

/thread


YES

THE GREAT DEVOURER BECKONS

  • 08.14.2011 7:27 AM PDT

"by using the specialized psychic power of the a selectively evolved Hive Ship, they manipulate the gravity fields of star system to achieve faster-than-light travel. "

'nuff said

and every counterpoint you have tried to make has been equally shot down by the tyranids.

feel free to say something other than 'forerunners' because as we all know they LOST to the flood, and as of yet the Tyranids have not lost an important battle.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 7:31 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 7:29 AM PDT

http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=60574 for instance
I shall pick this back up when I get back...

[Edited on 08.14.2011 7:31 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 7:30 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: DarkBen64
"Hive Fleets travel with superluminal speed, though they never enter the Warp. Instead, by using the specialized psychic power of the a selectively evolved Hive Ship, they manipulate the gravity fields of star system to achieve faster-than-light travel. The massive Warp presence of the Tyranid Hive Mind, however, manifests itself in that realm through the Shadow in the Warp phenomenon. "

That is the sheer power of the Hive Mind.

The physical manifests of the hive Mind I mentioned earlier are numerous, there isn't just one at any one time. If the forerunners tried to fight from space, the tyranids would still eventually win. point is, we're talking about the flood, who without any other sentient species to take over are absolutely useless. In a tyranid vs forerunner battle, the war would be huge and drawn out but the nids would win. in nids vs infected forerunner, the nids would find it easier.


Haven't you read our previous points?Species aren't the only thing the Flood need,it's the biomass and calcium from the environment too,how else do you think the Flood turned HC into a Flood hive even if 99 percent of the total space in that construct is just made of metal.

The Forerunners would curbstomb the nids. On ground Forerunner ground assests casually rip the crust off the planet,their mech suits can decimate entire cities.
Note:So far from what we have seen,FR cities are continent sized.
The they also have sentinels who pack enough firepower to vaporise any nid they meet in battle. See the Onyx sentinels and the super sentinel from Legends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi_1tUAURG8

How would the nids stand to that on ground?And a spacebattle isn't even worth mentioning.Let's not forget the Halo array which the Builders would love to throw at the nids.

  • 08.14.2011 7:35 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: DarkBen64
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=60574 for instance
I shall pick this back up when I get back...


That debate was from 2004 when we didn't knew anything about the Flood except their combat forms.

  • 08.14.2011 7:36 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!


Posted by: hotshot revan II
The Forerunners would curbstomb the nids. On ground Forerunner ground assests casually rip the crust off the planet,their mech suits can decimate entire cities.
Note:So far from what we have seen,FR cities are continent sized.
The they also have sentinels who pack enough firepower to vaporise any nid they meet in battle. See the Onyx sentinels and the super sentinel from Legends.

How would the nids stand to that on ground?
And a spacebattle isn't even worth mentioning. Let's not forget the Halo array which the Builders would love to throw at the nids.


The Forerunners could do all this stuff with the Flood too, it still failed and they were defeated. Not to mention, alot of this can be done by 40k races too, and they still struggle to hold back the Tyranids.
There're also a number of somewhat similar weapons of mass destruction within the 40k universe that could compare to a Halo array, though not acting as rapidly.
But regardless, it's an irrelevant point.
This is a Tyranid vs Flood debate, and the Flood would -never- use the Halo Arrays.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 7:42 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 7:40 AM PDT
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Ok tell us...Did the Tyranids survive the war where the enemy kept destroying whole solar systems ?
As we know the forerunners made the sun's of their solar systems go supernova once they find flood in the solar system...killing not millions of forerunners but billions and maybe even trillions...
And can the Tyranids survive a massive galactic scale weapon such as halo ? because the flood did...
The flood numbers are low because they faught humans and there werent trillions of humans ?
lol,the flood faught the covenenant too...and togther there where trillions of potential hosts....
The forerunners millitary....which can wipe the galaxy clean...fell into the hands of flood...and flood numbers werent trillions it was quadrillions.
The flood grave mind can reach thouasands of kilometers.... and destroying him dosent mean defeat....its enough for just 5 hosts to make one gravemind....
The flood supercell infects all...and there is no adoptation to it....because the forerunners tried every option that could possibly come in mind....and still couldnt find a cure...

  • 08.14.2011 7:42 AM PDT

Well, OP screwed the Necros and Xenos over when he said "full power."

Both of them are awesome but neither is really intelligent.

Tyranids, Flood, and Swarm, all at maximum power. I do not believe the Swarm can win. It is my understanding they have no real ability to fight in space against the Flood's Forerunner ships. They'd get swatted like flies.

But Tyranids are just....Christ.

Still, at maximum power, the Flood would number in the billions in a single swarm, flattening defensive meassures put up against them, even that of the OPed Forerunners.

Basically, one of the first posters inadvertantly described the Flood while describing the Forerunners. Just replace Space Marine with Forerunner.

Posted by: RU551NSP4RT4N

Posted by: SH4D0W0733

[quote]Posted by: TOMahawk7890
Once you put Tyranids up there it was game over for all other races. Everything in warhammer 40k is on steroids.
IF space marines are spartans times ten than thyranids are flood on crack.

There species is like the zerg and they are trying to reach genetic perfection. At the rate they can do it is insane. They outnumber every other race. Not only that they could assumulate the flood and zerg becoming more efficient.
They bastards eat planets whole. They outnumber their foe 100 to 1 in most engagements. Even the mighty space marines fight for their lives against them. If thyranids come to a planet its as good as done.


If Tyranids come to a planet its game over. This is true, usually. But the Forerunners--despite all of their planet-cracking weaponry and star busting cannons, would consider an entire planet lost if only so much as a single Flood spore was found upon it. They would then proceed to destroy the planet or the local star with Forerunner population still on it.

It would seem that the Flood was quicker back then. Makes sense considering the trillions upon trillions of forms (and the variety of those forms) they had.

Still, this entire fight boils down to the 'nids vs the Flood. I don't know much of the 'nids biology, which is key to this discussion. In fact, all I really know about them is that they travel in Hive Fleets, and that if you put a bullet in them, they die. How effective are they in space? Can they adapt technology? Can they consume the knowledge of others? How cognitively agile is the Hive Mind (or Queen?) in comparison to the Gravemind?

  • 08.14.2011 7:47 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: Iron Benny x
Posted by: Fin5434p
The Flood has taken a Galaxy before, from foes more advanced and powerful than the Imperium, or the Eldar, or Tau.


Not that I'm doubting your word on this, but where did ya read this lil' bit of information? I've not seen this said before.


I'm referring to the Forerunners, and to quote the Gravemind itself from the last level of halo 3
"I have consumed a galaxy of mind, and flesh, and bone!"

Anyway, if you're going on full power Forerunner Era Flood, then the Tyranids should rightly be given the full power of all their Hive Fleets, seen and yet unseen, which I do believe would -still- vastly outnumber the Flood, and could take apart the infected Forerunner fleet through pure attrition.

For all we know the Hive Fleets we have seen in 40K might represent the bulk of Tyranid forces, their numbers are kept ambiguous in keeping with 40K's 'grimdark' theme, but actual numbrs aren't stated.

It is certainly possible they could be a contender through numbers alone, I acknowledged that in my first post in this thread.

As I recall, the majority of the infected Forerunner fleet comprised of converted civilian vessels? Whilst each Tyranid ship is created for war. Correct me if I'm wrong, mind.

Mendicant's fleet was mostly converted civilian vessels you are correct. They were used as boarding craft primarily, a tactic that was effective in gaining the Flood forerunner warships at little real cost (civilian vessels are expendable, warships are a good prize). This tactic would not be as useful against the Tyranids, so presumably Mendicant or the Gravemind would use a different approach, both are excellent strategists.

Also, a thing I've been pondering, just how sharp the infection forms' tendrils are?

With respect, you are missing the point, the important factors are the Forerunner ships and ground equipment the Flood can bring to bear. Any additional biomass recovered will be less capable as front-line combatants than Forerunner ones and aquiring them should e a secondary objective.

That's a fair point, but the information on Tyranid fleets is fairly limited, and seeing as the Imperium of Man (Aswell as other races) can also break worlds, and cause stars to go nova, with the right application of their might, atleast.

Blackstone fortresses?

I can imagine that the Tyranids have comparable abilities

Possibly, but have they ever demonstrated it?
I certainly can't remember reading it if they have.


The Forerunners could do all this stuff with the Flood too, it still failed and they were defeated.

Because the Flood could do it back to them as well, they nicked a lot of Forerunner stuff, that's kind of their whole 'thing' as a species.

Not to mention, alot of this can be done by 40k races too, and they still struggle to hold back the Tyranids.
There're also a number of somewhat similar weapons of mass destruction within the 40k universe that could compare to a Halo array, though not acting as rapidly.


Say what??? I've never seen a Halo-type thing in 40K ???

This is a Tyranid vs Flood debate, and the Flood would -never- use the Halo Arrays.

Mendicant used one (or, arguably, more than one) against the Forerunner in Cryptum. I wasn't bringing it up because I didn't consider it a common Flood tactic. They have the capability though, and have demonstrated a willingness to use it.

  • 08.14.2011 7:52 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Still, this entire fight boils down to the 'nids vs the Flood. I don't know much of the 'nids biology, which is key to this discussion. In fact, all I really know about them is that they travel in Hive Fleets, and that if you put a bullet in them, they die. How effective are they in space? Can they adapt technology? Can they consume the knowledge of others? How cognitively agile is the Hive Mind (or Queen?) in comparison to the Gravemind?


Ermmmmm, I'll try to answer this.
To my knowledge, they have no need or desire to adapt technology. If they come across a problem, they adapt themselves. "Guns proving too effective at killing ground troops... bioengineer stronger chitin" etc. etc.
They cannot consume the knowledge of others in the same way as the Flood can, atleast not to my knowledge, but they can easily gain knowledge through infiltration units, such as infected sleeper agents that gather information for the Hive Mind.
There's little truly known about the Hive Mind, but though a vast incomprehensible intelligence, I don't personally think it's on the same intellectual scale as the Gravemind, as I've said previously, I view it as having more an instinctive ability to fight and consume, rather than consciously leading battles intuitively.

  • 08.14.2011 7:56 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: DarkBen64
and every counterpoint you have tried to make has been equally shot down by the tyranids.


Only in your mind, my very young apprentice...

feel free to say something other than 'forerunners' because as we all know they LOST to the flood, and as of yet the Tyranids have not lost an important battle.

Yes, they did lose to the Flood.

The significance of this seems lost on you however.

[spacebattles.com] for instance
I shall pick this back up when I get back...


I'm a member of that site, that's a very outdated discussion, and predates the information we had on the Forerunner-Flood war from Halo 3.

Take your time, there's no rush.
Maybe next time I won't be a member of the site you cite... :)

  • 08.14.2011 8:00 AM PDT

What a waste....

Zerg or flood, because they really both r4p3 sh1t.

  • 08.14.2011 8:02 AM PDT


Posted by: Fin5434p

Posted by: Iron Benny x
Posted by: Fin5434p
The Flood has taken a Galaxy before, from foes more advanced and powerful than the Imperium, or the Eldar, or Tau.


Not that I'm doubting your word on this, but where did ya read this lil' bit of information? I've not seen this said before.


I'm referring to the Forerunners, and to quote the Gravemind itself from the last level of halo 3
"I have consumed a galaxy of mind, and flesh, and bone!"

Anyway, if you're going on full power Forerunner Era Flood, then the Tyranids should rightly be given the full power of all their Hive Fleets, seen and yet unseen, which I do believe would -still- vastly outnumber the Flood, and could take apart the infected Forerunner fleet through pure attrition.

For all we know the Hive Fleets we have seen in 40K might represent the bulk of Tyranid forces, their numbers are kept ambiguous in keeping with 40K's 'grimdark' theme, but actual numbrs aren't stated.

It is certainly possible they could be a contender through numbers alone, I acknowledged that in my first post in this thread.

As I recall, the majority of the infected Forerunner fleet comprised of converted civilian vessels? Whilst each Tyranid ship is created for war. Correct me if I'm wrong, mind.

Mendicant's fleet was mostly converted civilian vessels you are correct. They were used as boarding craft primarily, a tactic that was effective in gaining the Flood forerunner warships at little real cost (civilian vessels are expendable, warships are a good prize). This tactic would not be as useful against the Tyranids, so presumably Mendicant or the Gravemind would use a different approach, both are excellent strategists.

Also, a thing I've been pondering, just how sharp the infection forms' tendrils are?

With respect, you are missing the point, the important factors are the Forerunner ships and ground equipment the Flood can bring to bear. Any additional biomass recovered will be less capable as front-line combatants than Forerunner ones and aquiring them should e a secondary objective.

That's a fair point, but the information on Tyranid fleets is fairly limited, and seeing as the Imperium of Man (Aswell as other races) can also break worlds, and cause stars to go nova, with the right application of their might, atleast.

Blackstone fortresses?

I can imagine that the Tyranids have comparable abilities

Possibly, but have they ever demonstrated it?
I certainly can't remember reading it if they have.


The Forerunners could do all this stuff with the Flood too, it still failed and they were defeated.

Because the Flood could do it back to them as well, they nicked a lot of Forerunner stuff, that's kind of their whole 'thing' as a species.

Not to mention, alot of this can be done by 40k races too, and they still struggle to hold back the Tyranids.
There're also a number of somewhat similar weapons of mass destruction within the 40k universe that could compare to a Halo array, though not acting as rapidly.


Say what??? I've never seen a Halo-type thing in 40K ???

This is a Tyranid vs Flood debate, and the Flood would -never- use the Halo Arrays.

Mendicant used one (or, arguably, more than one) against the Forerunner in Cryptum. I wasn't bringing it up because I didn't consider it a common Flood tactic. They have the capability though, and have demonstrated a willingness to use it.


This is really the funny thing about Flood vs ____ debates; people toss around these powerful weapons and vast armies that, while yes would be highly effective in any other sense, ironically would be their downfall. Because the Flood would be able to use them too.

I often use Coruscasnt as an analogy, from Star Wars. It has the strongest defenses in the entire Republic, with easily hundreds if not thousands of ships stationed their at any given time.

But they are so packed together, with trillions of denizins living in a claustrophobic city-scape. The strength of their defenses would be turned on themselves by the Flood in an ironic twist and actually accelerate the invasion process. What they are defending becomes their own worst enemy.

I think thats why the Chief and his human friends were so succesfull. He was a single, one man army. If he died, the Flood would not gain millions of forms at once, just one, OPed Spartan form.

And the UNSC never threw that many troops at the Flood for them to consume. They were usually evac-ing.

So with the Flood, an army as impossibly vast and diverse as the Tyranids (and one made completely out of biomass) would fall significantly faster to the Flood then the UNSC, disregarding the Forerunner weapons factor.

And regarding the Halo Bias used, if the Flood also adapted the Forerunners' mentality as well, then the Flood would gladly use the Halos on a misquitoe if it came to it.

  • 08.14.2011 8:06 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!

Posted by: Fin5434p

Also, a thing I've been pondering, just how sharp the infection forms' tendrils are?

With respect, you are missing the point, the important factors are the Forerunner ships and ground equipment the Flood can bring to bear. Any additional biomass recovered will be less capable as front-line combatants than Forerunner ones and aquiring them should e a secondary objective.

That's a fair point, but the information on Tyranid fleets is fairly limited, and seeing as the Imperium of Man (Aswell as other races) can also break worlds, and cause stars to go nova, with the right application of their might, atleast.

Blackstone fortresses?

I can imagine that the Tyranids have comparable abilities

Possibly, but have they ever demonstrated it?
I certainly can't remember reading it if they have.


Not to mention, alot of this can be done by 40k races too, and they still struggle to hold back the Tyranids.
There're also a number of somewhat similar weapons of mass destruction within the 40k universe that could compare to a Halo array, though not acting as rapidly.


Say what??? I've never seen a Halo-type thing in 40K ???

This is a Tyranid vs Flood debate, and the Flood would -never- use the Halo Arrays.

Mendicant used one (or, arguably, more than one) against the Forerunner in Cryptum. I wasn't bringing it up because I didn't consider it a common Flood tactic. They have the capability though, and have demonstrated a willingness to use it.


Sheer amount of text to sift through was confusing me, I'll just answer down here.

1- The reason I ask is due to the fact that the Flood do not produce their own ships, atleast to our knowledge. Eventually they'd run out of space worthy vessels, whilst the Tyranids can constantly produce their own. So if they cannot infect Tyranids, and control them, they could very well lose the capacity to fight if their ships were all destroyed.

2- I was referring to the Blackstone Fortresses, aye.

3- This is more speculation on my part, there's no proof of it, but I imagine they would, due to the balance nature of the 40k universe, each race has some form of similar BOOM ability, due to the fact it's a tabletop game, and they don't want people complaining that their race can't be as good as other races. But, we can disregard this, as it could possibly just be complete hogwash on my part.

4- Well, nothing that kills off all sentient life at once, but I was trying to say that the 40k universe had devices that would spell eventual doom for the galaxy, such as the C'tans attempt to cut off the warp from real space. Admittedly not on the same scale as the Halo Arrays, but the eventual outcome would be the same. Death to most life, and the eventual reseeding.

5- He didn't use it in a way that wiped the galaxy clean, as I had understood Raven to mean the Forerunners would against the Nids, but perhaps you're right, if they reduced the power output, the Flood might very well use it on a localised battle.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 8:13 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 8:08 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Still, this entire fight boils down to the 'nids vs the Flood. I don't know much of the 'nids biology, which is key to this discussion. In fact, all I really know about them is that they travel in Hive Fleets, and that if you put a bullet in them, they die. How effective are they in space? Can they adapt technology? Can they consume the knowledge of others? How cognitively agile is the Hive Mind (or Queen?) in comparison to the Gravemind?


In the 40K books/background info Hive Ships seem quite a bit inferior 1v1 compared to Imperium of Man ships (this is fine, in the stories the IOM fleets are always outnumbered, even if they do pull off a win). In the BattleFleet Gothic game this is less obvious, the ships are much more comparible, I'm thinking this is more for ease of good gameplay though.

The limits of the Hive mind simply aren't known, it appears to direct things from the background puppet-master style, but it's intelligence and motivations other than 'eat stuff' aren't known.
It is presumably highly intelligent, and capable of a lot of multitasking, much like the Gravemind. It seems less inclined to philosophical debate and quoting poetry at it's enemies though.

  • 08.14.2011 8:11 AM PDT


Posted by: Iron Benny x
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Still, this entire fight boils down to the 'nids vs the Flood. I don't know much of the 'nids biology, which is key to this discussion. In fact, all I really know about them is that they travel in Hive Fleets, and that if you put a bullet in them, they die. How effective are they in space? Can they adapt technology? Can they consume the knowledge of others? How cognitively agile is the Hive Mind (or Queen?) in comparison to the Gravemind?


Ermmmmm, I'll try to answer this.
To my knowledge, they have no need or desire to adapt technology. If they come across a problem, they adapt themselves. "Guns proving too effective at killing ground troops... bioengineer stronger chitin" etc. etc.
They cannot consume the knowledge of others in the same way as the Flood can, atleast not to my knowledge, but they can easily gain knowledge through infiltration units, such as infected sleeper agents that gather information for the Hive Mind.
There's little truly known about the Hive Mind, but though a vast incomprehensible intelligence, I don't personally think it's on the same intellectual scale as the Gravemind, as I've said previously, I view it as having more an instinctive ability to fight and consume, rather than consciously leading battles intuitively.


Somebody once calculated the operational abilities of Cortana's mind based on her ability to crack a modulating computer security system and came to the conclusion that she had the cognitive power to calculate the existence of every particle in the universe in like an hour or something.

Now I brought this up because its important to note that the Gravemind cognitively destroyed her. He outpaced her the entire time.

If he can defeat her in a battle of the mind, imagine the impossible intellect he must have. Really that can be considered an ultimate weapon. He'd be able to almost perfectly predict troop movements, defensive strategies, and offensive strategies to where he could then come up with a countering strategy of his own. He'd be one step ahead the whole game, especially as his enemies succumb and he learns more about them.

  • 08.14.2011 8:14 AM PDT


Posted by: Iron Benny x
Posted by: Fin5434p

Also, a thing I've been pondering, just how sharp the infection forms' tendrils are?

With respect, you are missing the point, the important factors are the Forerunner ships and ground equipment the Flood can bring to bear. Any additional biomass recovered will be less capable as front-line combatants than Forerunner ones and aquiring them should e a secondary objective.

That's a fair point, but the information on Tyranid fleets is fairly limited, and seeing as the Imperium of Man (Aswell as other races) can also break worlds, and cause stars to go nova, with the right application of their might, atleast.

Blackstone fortresses?

I can imagine that the Tyranids have comparable abilities

Possibly, but have they ever demonstrated it?
I certainly can't remember reading it if they have.


Not to mention, alot of this can be done by 40k races too, and they still struggle to hold back the Tyranids.
There're also a number of somewhat similar weapons of mass destruction within the 40k universe that could compare to a Halo array, though not acting as rapidly.


Say what??? I've never seen a Halo-type thing in 40K ???

This is a Tyranid vs Flood debate, and the Flood would -never- use the Halo Arrays.

Mendicant used one (or, arguably, more than one) against the Forerunner in Cryptum. I wasn't bringing it up because I didn't consider it a common Flood tactic. They have the capability though, and have demonstrated a willingness to use it.


Sheer amount of text to sift through was confusing me, I'll just answer down here.

1- The reason I ask is due to the fact that the Flood do not produce their own ships, atleast to our knowledge. Eventually they'd run out of space worthy vessels, whilst the Tyranids can constantly produce their own. So if they cannot infect Tyranids, and control them, they could very well lose the capacity to fight if their ships were all destroyed.

2- I was referring to the Blackstone Fortresses, aye.

3- This is more speculation on my part, there's no proof of it, but I imagine they would, due to the balance nature of the 40k universe, each race has some form of similar BOOM ability, due to the fact it's a tabletop game, and they don't want people complaining that their race can't be as good as other races. But, we can disregard this, as it could possibly just be complete hogwash on my part.

4- Well, nothing that kills off all sentient life at once, but I was trying to say that the 40k universe had devices that would spell eventual doom for the galaxy, such as the C'tans attempt to cut off the warp from real space. Admittedly not on the same scale as the Halo Arrays, but the eventual outcome would be the same. Death to most life, and the eventual reseeding.

5- He didn't use it in a way that wiped the galaxy clean, as I had understood Raven to mean the Forerunners would against the Nids, but perhaps you're right, if they reduced the power output, the Flood might very well use it on a localised battle.


I'm referring to point 1, btw.

I haven't read the Evolutions II story myself, as I see no reason to spend money for an entire collection when I need only 1 short story, but from what I've heard of it, in Soma the Painter, Seward is invaded by these Flood "bioships" of some sort. The Flood can definitely create their own vessels (even better if they have a captured Forerunner warship factory) and it would also seem from this story that they can create biological ships as well.

  • 08.14.2011 8:18 AM PDT

< Insert witty comment/joke here >

Benjamin!

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I'm referring to point 1, btw.

I haven't read the Evolutions II story myself, as I see no reason to spend money for an entire collection when I need only 1 short story, but from what I've heard of it, in Soma the Painter, Seward is invaded by these Flood "bioships" of some sort. The Flood can definitely create their own vessels (even better if they have a captured Forerunner warship factory) and it would also seem from this story that they can create biological ships as well.


Aha, well, if that's true, then I apologise, I was unaware of this. But, I cannot imagine that these bioships would compare to those of the Tyranids. Nothing I've seen about the Flood has shown that their self-created biological weapons (E.g those weird floating things in Halo Wars) compare to that which the Tyranids can produce. The Flood seem quite limited to gases and fleshy matter, atleast in my experience.

  • 08.14.2011 8:22 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

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Posted by: Iron Benny x
Sheer amount of text to sift through was confusing me, I'll just answer down here.


My apologies, I tend to write long replies, I'll try to keep it brief.

1- Granted; While it would make sense that the Flood could use Forerunner(or any other captured) industrial sites to build ships, we haven't seen explicit proof of them doing so.
We see them modifying ships, and repairing ships, but I don't think we ever see them use a factory to build one.

2- Ok, It's not something contemporary 40K can match though, that's old tech.

3- I'm just going to go with what we know (or reasonably infer) for now if that's ok.

4- Ok, limited millitary application though.

5- I'd think it unlikely to be used on the full-scale mode, but it could plausibly be used to thin Tyranid fleet numbers.

  • 08.14.2011 8:23 AM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

[This is really the funny thing about Flood vs ____ debates; people toss around these powerful weapons and vast armies that, while yes would be highly effective in any other sense, ironically would be their downfall. Because the Flood would be able to use them too.

I often use Coruscasnt as an analogy, from Star Wars. It has the strongest defenses in the entire Republic, with easily hundreds if not thousands of ships stationed their at any given time.

But they are so packed together, with trillions of denizins living in a claustrophobic city-scape. The strength of their defenses would be turned on themselves by the Flood in an ironic twist and actually accelerate the invasion process. What they are defending becomes their own worst enemy.


It is particularly jarring in SW where the combination of plentiful weapons, high populations, and very fast, very available transport makes the Flood almost impossible to contain.

Ironically a less advanced setting would fare better, untill you start getting to the 'sufficiently advanced' end of the spectrum.


  • 08.14.2011 8:29 AM PDT

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Benjamin!


Posted by: Fin5434p

Posted by: Iron Benny x
Sheer amount of text to sift through was confusing me, I'll just answer down here.


My apologies, I tend to write long replies, I'll try to keep it brief.


No need to apologise, I'm perfectly capable of reading long replies, I prefer them, it's just the reply box is rather small when I'm trying to quote and edit so much text, hardly your fault.

  • 08.14.2011 8:30 AM PDT

The Flood, at the height of their power, only had a few thousand captured Forerunner ships.

A typical Tyranid invasion has over 1 billion ships.

And each ship is made of a Tyranid.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 8:35 AM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 8:33 AM PDT