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This topic has moved here: Subject: So now that Jim is back,
  • Subject: So now that Jim is back,
Subject: So now that Jim is back,
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Posted by: Recon Number 54

Posted by: Batzter
I think that, and this goes for the current mods too, a minimum requirement should be activity and knowledge of the communty's current state, criterias I don't necessarily think that some of the currently "activated" mods are living up to. This is particulary important now due to recent rules changes, or enforcement thereof.

Achronos has stated recently (and I would imagine that Urk concurs) that finding someone who knows the rules and is here is the easy part. Knowing them well enough that they (the Bungie staff, the supervisors of the ninja and our hosts) can entrust them with the abilities to enforce the membership agreement in a way that Bungie can treat the ninjas as "fire and forget" autonomous weapons.... THAT is the hard part.

My guess is that even though the community has grown (incredibly), that growth has made it harder and harder to actually know and trust any particular member to that level.

With the limited power regular forum ninjas have I wouldn't think they could do too much damage. Granted they could cause a lot of chaos, but I bet if you take any of the rule abiding members who have been around for a while and gave them mod powers they would step up and do the right thing.
If they've been good (or at least good for the majority of time) as regular members, what makes you think they'd abuse their powers?

  • 08.14.2011 5:31 PM PDT

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Posted by: Alec9224
With the limited power regular forum ninjas have I wouldn't think they could do too much damage. Granted they could cause a lot of chaos, but I bet if you take any of the rule abiding members who have been around for a while and gave them mod powers they would step up and do the right thing.
If they've been good (or at least good for the majority of time) as regular members, what makes you think they'd abuse their powers?

I think the main concern,I think, would be entrusting a user who starts moderating in a ham-fisted manner. If they start locking and banning user's who haven't really broken any rule, that creates work for the other ninja's and the Webteam. Then the Webteam has to revoke the ninja's ninja-ness. Then the process starts again and the last search was fruitless and costly.

  • 08.14.2011 5:40 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: Alec9224
With the limited power regular forum ninjas have I wouldn't think they could do too much damage. Granted they could cause a lot of chaos, but I bet if you take any of the rule abiding members who have been around for a while and gave them mod powers they would step up and do the right thing.
If they've been good (or at least good for the majority of time) as regular members, what makes you think they'd abuse their powers?

I don't think anything. I was paraphrasing and expanding on a statement from someone who I cannot speak for.

But I don't think that the issue/challenge is containing/controlling abuse (it's occurred in the past, it will happen again, systems and methodologies are in place).

Abuse isn't what I think they are concerned about. What I believe they see as a potential risk is more subtle than out and out abuse of position. The trust they speak of appears (at least to my observation) to revolve around the fact that we ninja (as a team and as individuals) operate consistently, autonomously, and with our focus on the best interests of our hosts and community. That is a hard thing to quantify, to find in a Q/A, or to simply expect someone you don't know that well to "just get it".

It would be possible for anyone with moderation tools to "do the job", but at the same time that person could not understand or subvert "the reason behind the job".

Hard to describe, especially since I am projecting my own supposition and concepts onto the statements and actions of someone else. So please don't try to read too much into this post or try too hard to analyze it. I am just typing and blabbing.

  • 08.14.2011 5:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: Primum Agmen
A tosser is the same as a wanker. To toss oneself off is to fondle the trouser weasel.


Achronos

Joe Staten

Disregard this.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 5:42 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 5:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: defnop552
Posted by: Alec9224
With the limited power regular forum ninjas have I wouldn't think they could do too much damage. Granted they could cause a lot of chaos, but I bet if you take any of the rule abiding members who have been around for a while and gave them mod powers they would step up and do the right thing.
If they've been good (or at least good for the majority of time) as regular members, what makes you think they'd abuse their powers?

I think the main concern,I think, would be entrusting a user who starts moderating in a ham-fisted manner. If they start locking and banning user's who haven't really broken any rule, that creates work for the other ninja's and the Webteam. Then the Webteam has to revoke the ninja's ninja-ness. Then the process starts again and the last search was fruitless and costly.

True, but like I said, I think if you took some of the rule abiding members they would act the right way. Of course there's always the risk, but the optimist in me says people would act the right way.


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Alec9224
With the limited power regular forum ninjas have I wouldn't think they could do too much damage. Granted they could cause a lot of chaos, but I bet if you take any of the rule abiding members who have been around for a while and gave them mod powers they would step up and do the right thing.
If they've been good (or at least good for the majority of time) as regular members, what makes you think they'd abuse their powers?

I don't think anything. I was paraphrasing and expanding on a statement from someone who I cannot speak for.

But I don't think that the issue/challenge is containing/controlling abuse (it's occurred in the past, it will happen again, systems and methodologies are in place).

Abuse isn't what I think they are concerned about. What I believe they see as a potential risk is more subtle than out and out abuse of position. The trust they speak of appears (at least to my observation) to revolve around the fact that we ninja (as a team and as individuals) operate consistently, autonomously, and with our focus on the best interests of our hosts and community. That is a hard thing to quantify, to find in a Q/A, or to simply expect someone you don't know that well to "just get it".

It would be possible for anyone with moderation tools to "do the job", but at the same time that person could not understand or subvert "the reason behind the job".

Hard to describe, especially since I am projecting my own supposition and concepts onto the statements and actions of someone else. So please don't try to read too much into this post or try too hard to analyze it. I am just typing and blabbing.

Don't worry, I never read much into any of your posts. :p
While this community is filled with people who's goal is to spam and cause chaos, it's also filled with people willing to do the right thing.
We're here because we enjoy the community; I don't think it would be hard to find good people to do the job with the right heart. There are many who are trying to help.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 5:46 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 5:42 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P

He has not been truly active for the last two years. Moderators have to both moderate and answer questions for the community, with someone gone for such a length of time it might be extremely difficult to 'get back in gear' especially someone with a changed lifestyle at home.

Coming back to the forums and getting told 'Welcome back. Now get to work', is quite wrong, especially if done without thought. Jim should only be re-considered for re-submission if:
- He chooses to
- He will continue to stay active
- He spends some time getting re-used, a largely re-changed, only then to be chosen by the HFCS

  • 08.14.2011 5:50 PM PDT
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Apparently this is a big deal...

  • 08.14.2011 5:55 PM PDT

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Posted by: Alec9224
I bet if you take any of the rule abiding members who have been around for a while and gave them mod powers they would step up and do the right thing.
If they've been good (or at least good for the majority of time) as regular members, what makes you think they'd abuse their powers?

Posted by: Alec9224
it's also filled with people willing to do the right thing.
We're here because we enjoy the community; I don't think it would be hard to find good people to do the job with the right heart. There are many who are trying to help.

I'm sure there are a good number of members on this site who would make for superb moderators. But how do you judge when everyone is equally qualified? How would you choose without actually asking them "How would you deal with X and what if Y was to happen?"

I've never actually thought about it before, but picking moderators is harder than just pointing at a user and saying "GO!"

[Edited on 08.14.2011 5:59 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 5:55 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.


Posted by: Skibur
Apparently this is a big deal...

If we (the community) can take a MS-Paint altered PM and talk about it for a week, we (the community) can make ANYTHING into a "big deal".

  • 08.14.2011 5:58 PM PDT

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Posted by: Skibur
Apparently this is a big deal...

Kind of.

  • 08.14.2011 5:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Skibur
Apparently this is a big deal...

If we (the community) can take a MS-Paint altered PM and talk about it for a week, we (the community) can make ANYTHING into a "big deal".
MS Paint altered!? WTF I thought it was real...

  • 08.14.2011 6:04 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: Skibur
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Skibur
Apparently this is a big deal...

If we (the community) can take a MS-Paint altered PM and talk about it for a week, we (the community) can make ANYTHING into a "big deal".
MS Paint altered!? WTF I thought it was real...

Here we go....

  • 08.14.2011 6:05 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P


Posted by: Skibur
Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Skibur
Apparently this is a big deal...

If we (the community) can take a MS-Paint altered PM and talk about it for a week, we (the community) can make ANYTHING into a "big deal".
MS Paint altered!? WTF I thought it was real...

Liar!

  • 08.14.2011 6:06 PM PDT

Key

Disclaimer: I don't know who the -blam!- Jim is. All I know is he used to be a mod and I read his OP in the thread he made in the flood recently.

If somebody is absent for that long they have no business being a mod anymore. I realize (from his post) that he was gone because of personal issues, but he has not been here to experience all that has happened in his absence.

Hell, I think he was gone long enough to not even realize the significance of John Cena (as I'm sure many of us wish we didn't). Communities are constantly evolving and changing and if moderators are not there to experience that change, how can they possibly be expected to moderate said community.

WARNING, TERRIBLE SIMILE INCOMING!!!

It's like if you were a monkey right, back when there were no humans on earth. And aliens abducted you and put you into a cryogenics chamber to be put back on the earth in 100,000 years. By this time it is, say, ancient Rome.

You now do not know the culture, don't know how to interact with anyone, don't even know what these weird, hairless, things are.

That's a moderator who hasn't been in the community. Sure, my simile borders on extreme hyperbole but the point is the same.

  • 08.14.2011 6:07 PM PDT
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So long as the team knows that it's him using the account, I'm down for his status to be upped to Mod.

  • 08.14.2011 6:14 PM PDT
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  • 08.14.2011 8:03 PM PDT

Posted by: Changsta inc
Racism isn't wrong if it's funny.

Who is Jim?

  • 08.14.2011 9:44 PM PDT

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This is Jim
Posted by: Nannerpus
Who is Jim?

  • 08.14.2011 9:47 PM PDT

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Well he needed to come back at somepoint... no?...So confused... :/

  • 08.14.2011 10:02 PM PDT

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Wow. Uhm... hi. I'm Jim. Hello, greetings and all that.

Can we calm a little? I'm not trying to come back and be a mod, I've been gone too long, many things have changed, etc.

I'm not trying to ruffle feathers or anything, I was just in the neighborhood as it were. I will not be asking to be a mod at this time. I am not able to devote the time to it with the kids and other things going on, and while I appreciate the votes of confidence from a few of you, I wouldn't begin to think about putting the moderating staff or Achronos in the position of having a moderator that was spotty and out of touch. I hope that's put to rest.

Being a moderator here was a mixed bag. I got to help keep the forums fun and enjoyable for many people, but I also got threats, people sending me google -earth screencaps of my house, etc. You have to have a certain level of maturity and thick skin to even do the job in the first place, and you have to be trustworthy to a fault. The moderator tools are not super powerful by themselves, but imagine losing your temper and randomly banning, deleting, moving threads, etc. It's not something Achronos takes lightly, he watches for a long time any nominees for mod-hood, and you can be sure he's careful. Bad things have happened and I'm sure he's even more careful now.

In any case, I'm just a member like anyone else. No big deal now. If I feel the urge (and it would be a while, no such urge exists now) to try to help keep the forums clean, I will talk it over with the mods and Achronos, and perhaps your moms.

  • 08.14.2011 10:02 PM PDT

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Question for a current mod:

Was John Cena anywhere near as bad as Mithrandir? I still get nightmares of anything with the words tub and girl in it.

  • 08.14.2011 10:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Question for a current mod:

Was John Cena anywhere near as bad as Mithrandir? I still get nightmares of anything with the words tub and girl in it.

  • 08.14.2011 10:12 PM PDT

The beta is super awesome. RogueAssassin27 is now the person who got my Totodile's nickname. Hoo-hah! Relevant.inb4lock

I'm confused, is he staying or visiting?

  • 08.14.2011 10:18 PM PDT

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Which the pebble and which the rock?

Posted by: Yoozel
Pebbles in a road full of larger rocks.

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
Question for a current mod:

Was John Cena anywhere near as bad as Mithrandir? I still get nightmares of anything with the words tub and girl in it.


  • 08.14.2011 10:22 PM PDT

Posted by: Chalupa King117
I'm confused, is he staying or visiting?
Depends. Are you offering him your room?

  • 08.14.2011 10:23 PM PDT