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Subject: Whats up with the UNSC Scorpion?

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Not a lot of information with the scorpion's abilities but it's easy to transport, maneuverable, wide ranges of terrains, fast, easy to repair, easy to make, et cetera.

  • 08.14.2011 9:22 PM PDT

Any armor you say? And what proves this.

It really seems your attacking halo because Bungie isn't super experts on everything and thus might've made an odd tank statswise.

And it honestly seems you want to murder anybody who tries to even imply UNSC weapons/vehicles aren't complete pieces of -blam!-.

  • 08.14.2011 9:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Any armor you say? And what proves this.

It really seems your attacking halo because Bungie isn't super experts on everything and thus might've made an odd tank statswise.

And it honestly seems you want to murder anybody who tries to even imply UNSC weapons/vehicles aren't complete pieces of -blam!-.


Relax, I made a typo error and I edited my post.

And, I'm not attacking Halo for those reason. I'm just stating how Bungie was incompetent, especially with knowledge of tanks and military things. If they had researched bit more, they would make it more better. I still love Halo but I won't call it perfect sci fi universe however because there is no perfect universe, because it will always have some flaws or errors.

and any people with common sense or with any intelligence would know that most (NOT ALL of it) of UNSC weapons/vehicles are inferior to modern vehicles due to designs, stats, and range. I'm not sure on firepower and rate of fire, I'm fairly sure that UNSC exceeds the modern weapons with that. Also I forgot to add, electronics such as linking HUD with weapons. I wouldn't call it murdering, I would call it correcting. :P

[Edited on 08.14.2011 9:28 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 9:27 PM PDT

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Electronics, reliability, production capability, many other things to consider.

  • 08.14.2011 9:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Spartan 100
Electronics, reliability, production capability, many other things to consider.


Yes? And?

It does make that weapon is better?

You have to consider about most important parts of weapons to determine if it is good weapon.

Range, muzzle velocity, round types, its operation (inside of weapon) and capacity of self-repair (easy to dismantle the weapon then replace new parts or whatever) or rate of fire.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 9:46 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 9:42 PM PDT

Note

The rounds used by the scorpion are not just only HE but more a a mixture between a Armor piercing round and High Explosive. possibly a explosives tipped armor piercing round, which would shred the Abrams.

the main automatic rifle the UNSC use employes sniper rifle ammo and has an effective range of over 300 meters and the BR which has a effective range over 900 meters.

much better than any common infantry weapon

  • 08.14.2011 9:51 PM PDT

Yeah, we spent all our military research money figuring out how to give our tanks infinite ammo. That was a tough one. . .

Point of post: it's a game. Game mechanics trump logical realism every time.

  • 08.14.2011 9:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: otterboyz
Note

The rounds used by the scorpion are not just only HE but more a a mixture between a Armor piercing round and High Explosive. possibly a explosives tipped armor piercing round, which would shred the Abrams.

the main automatic rifle the UNSC use employes sniper rifle ammo and has an effective range of over 300 meters and the BR which has a effective range over 900 meters.

much better than any common infantry weapon



That is called AP/HE.

Uh... main automatic rifle doesn't use sniper rifle ammunition, it uses full metal jacket 7.62mm x 51mm ammunition, same as modern weapons. BR uses 9.5 x 40mm semi armor piercing rounds.

Snipe rifles in the UNSC uses 14.5 x 114mm ammunition.

[Edited on 08.14.2011 10:12 PM PDT]

  • 08.14.2011 10:10 PM PDT


Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Wow...the people on this forum are not very bright...

I encourage you people to know what the -blam!- you're talking about before replying with bull--blam!- answers like "light main battle tank".

Only an idiot would try to claim a main battle tank can be a light tank. It's a MBT for reason.

Secondly, only a moron would classify a 66 ton tank as a light tank.

Thirdly, the Scorpion tank is quite frankly an ill-though out and poorly designed piece of crap. For God's sake, it was designed by a game developer who clearly had no idea what real tanks are like.

As to the OP, your grievances are legitimate. Unfortunately, like so many areas in the Halo universe, common sense and competence is severely lacking.


Now how would you like to fight with your team against something 100% indestructible. You wouldn't, right?

There is absolutely no reason to make a stronger human tank. It's balanced very well with all other vehicles in the game, and frankly, is probably the best.

  • 08.14.2011 10:35 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: otterboyz
Note

The rounds used by the scorpion are not just only HE but more a a mixture between a Armor piercing round and High Explosive. possibly a explosives tipped armor piercing round, which would shred the Abrams.

the main automatic rifle the UNSC use employes sniper rifle ammo and has an effective range of over 300 meters and the BR which has a effective range over 900 meters.

much better than any common infantry weapon



That is called AP/HE.

Uh... main automatic rifle doesn't use sniper rifle ammunition, it uses full metal jacket 7.62mm x 51mm ammunition, same as modern weapons. BR uses 9.5 x 40mm semi armor piercing rounds.

Snipe rifles in the UNSC uses 14.5 x 114mm ammunition.


I think he means that the rounds pack a major punch by being able to penetrate well, and have lots of high explosive, similar to a HEAT (high explosive anti-tank) warhead.

And yes, technically, the AR and machine guns don't fire sniper rounds, but the 7.62mm can come in the form of a sniper bullet, and is used frequently among US and NATO forces, it's called a boat tail, and it is slightly heavier in the rear part of the bullet, making it heavier overall (175 grains vs 150 grains) so that it maintains momentum better for longer range capability. So yes, the 7.62x51mm is sniper-capable in the real world, and for it to be in an assault rifle with manageable recoil like an M16 or M4 is pretty badass. And the round you mentioned that's used for the sniper in Halo was actually a Russian anti-tank bullet, except in Halo it's also a sabot (APFSDS) round.

  • 08.14.2011 10:35 PM PDT

Here is another point that people aren't taking into consideration.

Balance.


For the sake of gameplay, maybe the tank is dumbed down quite a bit for our use? The thing has to be fair in BTB where in any other real war with limited supplies a tank would be the end of it.


Most Halo wikis will get their stats directly from gameplay, but they don't say 'a spartan can only sprint for a few seconds at 9 meters per second and 6 meters per second usually' for example.

I'd bet money that the tank itself is dumbed down ALOT for balance, but unfortunately until we get more specific details about it (like we do the spartans from the books) we're just going to have to take the gameplay as if it were a perfect representation of what the universe is.
(but let's be honest...nothing in these games can be how they should due to the necessary balancing)

  • 08.14.2011 10:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: MisterBraz

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: otterboyz
Note

The rounds used by the scorpion are not just only HE but more a a mixture between a Armor piercing round and High Explosive. possibly a explosives tipped armor piercing round, which would shred the Abrams.

the main automatic rifle the UNSC use employes sniper rifle ammo and has an effective range of over 300 meters and the BR which has a effective range over 900 meters.

much better than any common infantry weapon



That is called AP/HE.

Uh... main automatic rifle doesn't use sniper rifle ammunition, it uses full metal jacket 7.62mm x 51mm ammunition, same as modern weapons. BR uses 9.5 x 40mm semi armor piercing rounds.

Snipe rifles in the UNSC uses 14.5 x 114mm ammunition.


I think he means that the rounds pack a major punch by being able to penetrate well, and have lots of high explosive, similar to a HEAT (high explosive anti-tank) warhead.

And yes, technically, the AR and machine guns don't fire sniper rounds, but the 7.62mm can come in the form of a sniper bullet, and is used frequently among US and NATO forces, it's called a boat tail, and it is slightly heavier in the rear part of the bullet, making it heavier overall (175 grains vs 150 grains) so that it maintains momentum better for longer range capability. So yes, the 7.62x51mm is sniper-capable in the real world, and for it to be in an assault rifle with manageable recoil like an M16 or M4 is pretty badass. And the round you mentioned that's used for the sniper in Halo was actually a Russian anti-tank bullet, except in Halo it's also a sabot (APFSDS) round.


Well yes. I know that 7.62 mm is usable for sniper rifles but I think he was referring that automatic weapons use high powered ammunition. Perhaps that he may made grammar error that possibly confused me.

However, about sniper rifles...

It is confirmed that sniper rifles actually use 14.5 x 114 mm APFSDS rounds as Encyclopedia stated.

Source: Halo: Encyclopedia, Second Edition, page number of 311.

  • 08.14.2011 10:42 PM PDT

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Scorpions were much more mass-produced than Abrams tanks, remember, we colonized hundreds of worlds in 500 or so years, there's lots more people then than there are now.

  • 08.14.2011 10:44 PM PDT

"There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe."
Gospel of John, 1:1-7

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind


Calm down ol' chap. Anyway, maybe it could be considered a light tank relative to their heavy tanks. (i.e. grizzlies.)

It's for gameplay and aesthetics first, not realism. If we really tried imagining what a tank would look like in 500 years, I doubt we'd do very well. Let alone imagine the power it has, so it's safer to just stick with the "It worked so we didn't replace it, also their wasn't much to fight for 500 years" excuse. Like bullets, in 500 years, who know's if we'll still be using bullets?

  • 08.14.2011 10:51 PM PDT


Posted by: GBspot117
Scorpions were much more mass-produced than Abrams tanks, remember, we colonized hundreds of worlds in 500 or so years, there's lots more people then than there are now.
Also a very good point.

The term 'mass produced' to them? A whole different level than us...

  • 08.14.2011 11:27 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: MisterBraz

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: otterboyz
Note

The rounds used by the scorpion are not just only HE but more a a mixture between a Armor piercing round and High Explosive. possibly a explosives tipped armor piercing round, which would shred the Abrams.

the main automatic rifle the UNSC use employes sniper rifle ammo and has an effective range of over 300 meters and the BR which has a effective range over 900 meters.

much better than any common infantry weapon



That is called AP/HE.

Uh... main automatic rifle doesn't use sniper rifle ammunition, it uses full metal jacket 7.62mm x 51mm ammunition, same as modern weapons. BR uses 9.5 x 40mm semi armor piercing rounds.

Snipe rifles in the UNSC uses 14.5 x 114mm ammunition.


I think he means that the rounds pack a major punch by being able to penetrate well, and have lots of high explosive, similar to a HEAT (high explosive anti-tank) warhead.

And yes, technically, the AR and machine guns don't fire sniper rounds, but the 7.62mm can come in the form of a sniper bullet, and is used frequently among US and NATO forces, it's called a boat tail, and it is slightly heavier in the rear part of the bullet, making it heavier overall (175 grains vs 150 grains) so that it maintains momentum better for longer range capability. So yes, the 7.62x51mm is sniper-capable in the real world, and for it to be in an assault rifle with manageable recoil like an M16 or M4 is pretty badass. And the round you mentioned that's used for the sniper in Halo was actually a Russian anti-tank bullet, except in Halo it's also a sabot (APFSDS) round.


Well yes. I know that 7.62 mm is usable for sniper rifles but I think he was referring that automatic weapons use high powered ammunition. Perhaps that he may made grammar error that possibly confused me.

However, about sniper rifles...

It is confirmed that sniper rifles actually use 14.5 x 114 mm APFSDS rounds as Encyclopedia stated.

Source: Halo: Encyclopedia, Second Edition, page number of 311.



What I should of said was that it use modern day sniper ammunition in an automatic form but at a much higher muzzle velocity witch results in a massive increase of power along with the DMR which can also be automatic.

your right about the UNSC sniper but the SRS99(halo: reach) also uses 14.5x114mm High Velocity Armor Piercing rounds

  • 08.14.2011 11:58 PM PDT

Also with a barrel length of around a meter, 7.62 FMJAP ammo, and a 15 round magazine the DMR surpasses many modern snipers

  • 08.15.2011 12:02 AM PDT

"And may Death Rain Down those who stand against us..."

What about a SVU sniper rifle.It resembles the DMR very much

  • 08.15.2011 12:11 AM PDT

Posted by: Primum Agmen
A tosser is the same as a wanker. To toss oneself off is to fondle the trouser weasel.


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Posted by: xXLastHylianXx
Yeah, we spent all our military research money figuring out how to give our tanks infinite ammo. That was a tough one. . .

Point of post: it's a game. Game mechanics trump logical realism every time.

  • 08.15.2011 3:53 AM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120

Question: Is anyone in this thread:

-A crew member for an M1A1 Abrams?

-A ballistics expert?

-An Engineer or technician who designs, builds or fixes tanks and similar equipment for a living?

-A combat experienced veteran who has seen an Abrams doing what it does in the field?

Those are genuine questions by the way.

The thing people are forgetting is that certain sacrifices are made in video games that mean their likeness to reality tends to be somewhat limited.

The key factor here is, things in games have to be fun, otherwise people won't play the game. Whether or not the tonnage of an imaginary tank is correct to it's real world counterparts is of no interest to me, and I'm as big a Halo nerd as anyone of you.

Robert McLee's said that the truth is, 500 years from now, a weapon will probably be a glass of water. I'm not sure what that tells you, but the truth is, Halo is a game. It's designed to be fun and engaging, not realistic. If you could kill everything with one shot, where is the challenge?

Realistically, HE rounds spread the damage and throw plenty of shrapnel, and who knows what advances in technology have taken place 500 years from now?

Those elitists calling everyone dumb because we're not all Internet experts on all things war need to chill out a bit.



  • 08.15.2011 4:51 AM PDT

;]

It's a game, bro.

  • 08.15.2011 5:54 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Discussion has been done to death.

  • 08.15.2011 6:01 AM PDT

What a waste....


Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Wow...the people on this forum are not very bright...

I encourage you people to know what the -blam!- you're talking about before replying with bull--blam!- answers like "light main battle tank".

Only an idiot would try to claim a main battle tank can be a light tank. It's a MBT for reason.

Secondly, only a moron would classify a 66 ton tank as a light tank.

Thirdly, the Scorpion tank is quite frankly an ill-though out and poorly designed piece of crap. For God's sake, it was designed by a game developer who clearly had no idea what real tanks are like.

As to the OP, your grievances are legitimate. Unfortunately, like so many areas in the Halo universe, common sense and competence is severely lacking.
Definitely agree with you on it NOT being a light tank. I mean, you could fit two Warthogs side by side and not even meet the edge of its breadth.

Honestly though, I would say the Scorpion does a pretty good job against the Wraith. Granted, the Covenant don't have any tanks, and the only thing close is an artillery unit, but seriously, you only need 1 person to drive and fire, and it reloads pretty darn fast. Having the huge box of tungsten ammunition sitting outside and vulnerable to enemy fire does seem like another detriment, but honestly I'd take a Scorpion any day.

  • 08.15.2011 6:48 AM PDT

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