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Subject: What if Operation: RED FLAG went through?

How many things would have changed?!

Say all the surviving Spartans continue with their plan of Operation Red flag aboard the Pillar of Autumn and go through with their plan...Tell us what do you think would have changed...

Reach would never have been invaded.
The PoA would have never got to Installation 04.
Many more Spartans possibly would still be alive.
A Prophet would have been captured.
The War could have ended before Earth was found.

Those things above are what I think would have happened if they went through with it, what do you guys think would have changed?

  • 08.30.2011 11:05 PM PDT

Considering the Covenant attacked Reach as the POA was preparing to leave I still think Reach would be invaded.

Other than that, everything else is a possibility (as far as I know).

  • 08.30.2011 11:29 PM PDT

Posted by: cB4d93
Posted by: Silent Eli
you are a good translator
Idiot can be a hard language to learn, but once you get it down, everything becomes so clear! The whole world will make sense to you.

I can only imagine the PoA crashing into High Charity and a hundred Spartan IIs and a few hundred Marines emerging from the wreckage.

  • 08.30.2011 11:41 PM PDT

whats operation red flag?

  • 08.30.2011 11:51 PM PDT


Posted by: Lucifer90210
whats operation red flag?


Before the events of Reach, The Spartan II's and the POA were about to embark on a secret mission in Covenant controlled space to capture a prophet.

  • 08.30.2011 11:55 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

What truly ended the war between the Covenant as a whole and the UNSC was the Civil War. That conflict only started as a result of the chain of events that began with the discovery and destruction of Alpha Halo. A very long chain...

With Halo destroyed both Spark and Thel were displaced from their original positions and instead placed in the right role and location to sow the seeds of rebellion by spreading the truth about Halo among the Elites.

With Halo destroyed Chief and company would eventually stumble upon Unyielding Hierophant and rout a fleet of hundreds in Operation: First Strike which prevented Earth from being completely overrun by Covenant forces to the point that all human resistance would be crushed.

With UH destroyed, Regret would forge ahead with heading to Earth and subsequently is forced to retreat due to a lack of force. As a result he is followed by the Chief and company and eventually killed at Delta Halo.

With Regret killed, Truth had the Brutes usurp command from the Elites thus starting the Covenant Civil War and ultimately after many more events the truth of the Covenant's religion that bound all the races together would be revealed and unravel the organization leaving only those that remain hostile for the sake of being aggressive.


That said, the key thing that ended the war with the Covenant was that the very basis of their religion was undermined by the revelations that occurred in the second and third game. No belief in the Great Journey means no Covenant. So while individual species like the Brutes may still be actively aggressive towards humanity after Halo 3, they do so under their own weight and motivations rather than under the Covenant flag as it ceases to exist at this point due to said undermining of beliefs.

So, if Red Flag were to happen it would be incredibly unlikely that the war would end if at all. And if it did it would not be in favor of humanity. Capturing Truth would only enrage the Covenant into doubling their efforts. Killing Truth would yield similar results. Negotiating with Truth will simply not be an option as his motivation for the war is simple genocide of the human race to cover up their roles as reclaimers to the Forerunner empire. So he will not yield or make any deal that would cause the humans and Covenant to co-exist as it will lead to that revelation and uncover the Covenant.

That said, Earth would be doomed should Red Flag actually have been carried out as its mission parameters would not lead to a situation that would break the Covenant apart internally, and simultaneously would not interfere with the invasions of both Reach and Earth, the latter of which will be subjected to a full scale invasion force from the forces staged at UH.

All in all it's an incredibly lucky turn of events that both the Sword Base and Sigma Octanus artifacts combined would lead Chief and company to Halo starting the chain of events that lead to humanity's victory.

As a bonus afterthought to consider. If Red Flag was modified so that a NOVA bomb would instead be escorted and detonated into the Covenant Homeworld of High Charity, it would also not end the war. Again, this all rides on the concept that the Covenant's religion is undermined as the primary motive for the majority of the Covenant's population (particularly the Elites) is their religious zeal. Wiping out hundreds or even thousands of ships, who knows how many soldiers and civilians, and even the three high prophets at High Charity would not undermine the religion and alter the perception of those that remain. The forces that would remain will:

- Still be hostile to humanity for religious reasons
- Still outnumber humanity in both space (this being particularly key) and ground forces
- Still have the infrastructure throughout the galaxy to continue the war (also particularly key)

Earth will still only have the Sol system to support its military (the other known colonies that were untouched by the Covenant in the actual timeline were described as being resort planets and thus would likely not possess the infrastructure to support and maintain military strength for all of the UNSC) and will inevitably be crushed by the Covenant despite High Charity's destruction.

  • 08.31.2011 12:05 AM PDT

This is incredibly accurate, though I noticed 2 things.

The artifact at Sword Base did not have anything to do with finding Halo because Cortana was never on the ground on Reach and never "discovered" it. Furthermore, when Reach was attacked Halsey was at Castle Base, not Sword(which was unknown to exist). Halsey and the other Spartans went under Mechanite Mountain(I think it's called that) to discover the Forerunner Crystal. Cortana gleaned Halo's location specifically from the Forerunner artifact at Sigma Octanius IV(is it Octanius or Octavius? I forget which).

The other thing is that the Nova Bombing of High Charity could theoretically kill the Covenant's infrastructure. Without the prophets, the Brutes would have no one to control them and would begin their fight with the Elites. So a Civil War could still start, but for different reasons.

Otherwise, this makes perfect sense.

  • 08.31.2011 7:50 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: StealthSlasher2
All in all it's an incredibly lucky turn of events that both the Sword Base and Sigma Octanus artifacts combined would lead Chief and company to Halo starting the chain of events that lead to humanity's victory.


We never really learned anything about the Babd Catha "latchkey" artefact, there wasn't a single thing in the game or journal to even hint at what "very important information" was learned there.

  • 08.31.2011 8:09 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: StealthSlasher2
All in all it's an incredibly lucky turn of events that both the Sword Base and Sigma Octanus artifacts combined would lead Chief and company to Halo starting the chain of events that lead to humanity's victory.


We never really learned anything about the Babd Catha "latchkey" artefact, there wasn't a single thing in the game or journal to even hint at what "very important information" was learned there.


Consiidering Halsey's dialogue at the end of the game along with how played up it was in recovering that data I'd say that it's rather heavily implied that the artifact had some measure in helping Cortana find Halo. Otherwise from a writing standpoint there would be quite frankly no point at all to include those lines in the game in journal about the artifact and how Six's efforts would lead to Halo.

In any case I understand that there is nothing to confirm without a single doubt that Sword Base artifact had some capacity in finding Halo because there is nothing but implications with no confirmations. Ultimately though, whether or not it does help in finding Halo does not affect my theory as to how pivotal the battle of Installation 04 (and the concept of unraveling the Covenant religion) was in ending the Human-Covenant war.

  • 08.31.2011 8:36 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

OPERATION RED FLAG?

It was called OPERATION MJLONIR.

  • 08.31.2011 10:50 AM PDT
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Halo 2 isn't dead jorge...... its just missing in action.
MnF Elite Force <>Brigadier<>

Brown coat 'till the day I die.
Sheningans!
Wake me...when you need me.


Posted by: mojeda101
Reach would never have been invaded. Reach was being attacked as POA was leaving.
The PoA would have never got to Installation 04. Possible.
Many more Spartans possibly would still be alive. Very Likely, If they didn't go back.
A Prophet would have been captured. If one was on-board.
The War could have ended before Earth was found. Possible. If they fought the covies off. But it's also possible they (Covies) attacked reach again (and again and again.) And suceeded. They could also stumble upun Earth randomly. And what about all the wrecked ships?
Sorry for being slightly on the down side, But I'm just saying what I think.

  • 08.31.2011 10:57 AM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
OPERATION RED FLAG?

It was called OPERATION MJLONIR.

No. No it wasn't.

MJOLNIR is the name of the Spartans' armor

  • 08.31.2011 11:12 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: decman1117
Posted by: HipiO7
OPERATION RED FLAG?

It was called OPERATION MJLONIR.

No. No it wasn't.

MJOLNIR is the name of the Spartans' armor


*Sigh*

No.

OPERATION MJLONIR = The whole operation to kidnap a Prophet, blah blah...

PROJECT MJLONIR = The Spartan's armor.

  • 08.31.2011 11:23 AM PDT

Stupid ass washing machine...


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: decman1117
Posted by: HipiO7
OPERATION RED FLAG?

It was called OPERATION MJLONIR.

No. No it wasn't.

MJOLNIR is the name of the Spartans' armor


*Sigh*

No.

OPERATION MJLONIR = The whole operation to kidnap a Prophet, blah blah...

PROJECT MJLONIR = The Spartan's armor.


*Sigh*

No.

The mission to capture a Prophet was called RED FLAG. Go and re-read the ending of TFoR if you don't believe me, or else look it up on Halopedia.

  • 08.31.2011 11:28 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: TwiggyShip
Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: decman1117
Posted by: HipiO7
OPERATION RED FLAG?

It was called OPERATION MJLONIR.

No. No it wasn't.

MJOLNIR is the name of the Spartans' armor


*Sigh*

No.

OPERATION MJLONIR = The whole operation to kidnap a Prophet, blah blah...

PROJECT MJLONIR = The Spartan's armor.


*Sigh*

No.

The mission to capture a Prophet was called RED FLAG. Go and re-read the ending of TFoR if you don't believe me, or else look it up on Halopedia.



I'd much rather read the book. Halopedia isnt to be trusted.

Can you tell me, more or less, where you saw RED FLAG mentioned?

  • 08.31.2011 11:35 AM PDT

Stupid ass washing machine...


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: TwiggyShip
Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: decman1117
Posted by: HipiO7
OPERATION RED FLAG?

It was called OPERATION MJLONIR.

No. No it wasn't.

MJOLNIR is the name of the Spartans' armor


*Sigh*

No.

OPERATION MJLONIR = The whole operation to kidnap a Prophet, blah blah...

PROJECT MJLONIR = The Spartan's armor.


*Sigh*

No.

The mission to capture a Prophet was called RED FLAG. Go and re-read the ending of TFoR if you don't believe me, or else look it up on Halopedia.



I'd much rather read the book. Halopedia isnt to be trusted.

Can you tell me, more or less, where you saw RED FLAG
mentioned?


I think Halopedia is alright for facts and such so long as they quote sources.

I've just skimmed the book and First Strike and it appears I may be mistaken in it's name appearing in the books. It is, however, in Halsey's journal, if you have it. The name OPERATION: MJOLNIR was never mentioned, ever.

  • 08.31.2011 11:58 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: TwiggyShip
I think Halopedia is alright for facts and such so long as they quote sources.

I've just skimmed the book and First Strike and it appears I may be mistaken in it's name appearing in the books. It is, however, in Halsey's journal, if you have it. The name OPERATION: MJOLNIR was never mentioned, ever.


Halopeida is good if you have no other alternative. I dont remember it appearing in First Strike, nor in The Fall of Reach. And I have honestly read those books almost a dozen times each.

OPERATION MJLONIR is mentioned. I remember it. I'm not at my house at the moment, but I'll check it when I get there. I remember something about it showing up when Halsey says something along the lines of '' Of MJLONIR entering it's final phase. It could mean the end of the war, or the death of all her Spartan's.'' I can assure you something like that is in there.

  • 08.31.2011 12:02 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: TwiggyShip
I think Halopedia is alright for facts and such so long as they quote sources.

I've just skimmed the book and First Strike and it appears I may be mistaken in it's name appearing in the books. It is, however, in Halsey's journal, if you have it. The name OPERATION: MJOLNIR was never mentioned, ever.


Halopeida is good if you have no other alternative. I dont remember it appearing in First Strike, nor in The Fall of Reach. And I have honestly read those books almost a dozen times each.

OPERATION MJLONIR is mentioned. I remember it. I'm not at my house at the moment, but I'll check it when I get there. I remember something about it showing up when Halsey says something along the lines of '' Of MJLONIR entering it's final phase. It could mean the end of the war, or the death of all her Spartan's.'' I can assure you something like that is in there.

When she's talking about the MJOLNIR, she's talking about the new upgrade for the Mark V, having an in-suit AI.

I couldn't find my copy of TFOR, so I just dug out my copy of Halsey's Journal, and she mentions it several times, but the most detailed I found is the Aug 27, 2552 entry where she describes RED FLAG as a "decapitation mission", obviously the mission to capture a Prophet.

  • 08.31.2011 12:15 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: thebobafettest
Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: TwiggyShip
I think Halopedia is alright for facts and such so long as they quote sources.

I've just skimmed the book and First Strike and it appears I may be mistaken in it's name appearing in the books. It is, however, in Halsey's journal, if you have it. The name OPERATION: MJOLNIR was never mentioned, ever.


Halopeida is good if you have no other alternative. I dont remember it appearing in First Strike, nor in The Fall of Reach. And I have honestly read those books almost a dozen times each.

OPERATION MJLONIR is mentioned. I remember it. I'm not at my house at the moment, but I'll check it when I get there. I remember something about it showing up when Halsey says something along the lines of '' Of MJLONIR entering it's final phase. It could mean the end of the war, or the death of all her Spartan's.'' I can assure you something like that is in there.

When she's talking about the MJOLNIR, she's talking about the new upgrade for the Mark V, having an in-suit AI.

I couldn't find my copy of TFOR, so I just dug out my copy of Halsey's Journal, and she mentions it several times, but the most detailed I found is the Aug 27, 2552 entry where she describes RED FLAG as a "decapitation mission", obviously the mission to capture a Prophet.



Yeah, I dont have Hasleys Journal. I'd have to ask from my brother, but he has it in England...

I guess it's a recap or something, but I perfectly remember her talking about MJLONIR as if it were the operation. I dont remember RED FLAG ever mentioned in TFoR.

  • 08.31.2011 12:25 PM PDT

Eat, Sleep, Row

The Covenant would have gotten to a Halo ring, fired it, and probably killed all sentient beings, thus destroying the human race, the Covenant races, and a lot of other species(assuming they were within 25,000 light years of the Halo). And Mendicant Bias's plan would never have come to fuition. In other words, no Halo series.

  • 08.31.2011 12:26 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: RECKLESS XLII
The Covenant would have gotten to a Halo ring, fired it, and probably killed all sentient beings, thus destroying the human race, the Covenant races, and a lot of other species(assuming they were within 25,000 light years of the Halo). And Mendicant Bias's plan would never have come to fuition. In other words, no Halo series.


The Covenant can't use actual Forerunner devices (that's why they needed humans to activate both the shield world in Halo Wars and the Ark in Halo 3)

  • 08.31.2011 6:57 PM PDT

the Humans probably would have lost the war and been annihilated

  • 08.31.2011 7:14 PM PDT


Posted by: RECKLESS XLII
The Covenant would have gotten to a Halo ring, fired it, and probably killed all sentient beings, thus destroying the human race, the Covenant races, and a lot of other species(assuming they were within 25,000 light years of the Halo). And Mendicant Bias's plan would never have come to fuition. In other words, no Halo series.
How? They wouldn't have had coordinates to follow the PoA to a ring. Along with a human to activate it.

  • 08.31.2011 7:35 PM PDT

I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me.
--Ralph Ellison

Posted by: HipiO7


The operation is only referred to as RED FLAG in the journal as far as I can find flipping through the pages of TFoR, First Strike and the journal.

Project MJOLNIR is talked about at the same time as Operation RED FLAG in TFoR but is referred to as Project MJOLNIR.

On page 232, it is said that Dr. Halsey "finally received the green light to unleash MJOLNIR." And then on page 233, "It meant victory against the Covenant... or the death of all her Spartans." Then on page 234, "One of those opportunities is Project MJOLNIR." And on page 245, "and I will show you the one thing that will let you get through this mission in one piece: MJOLNIR."

In the books the operation is not given a name but is in the journal.

Hope that helps.

  • 08.31.2011 7:44 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

I believe that the reissued Fall of Reach is the first time the operation is referred to by name as Red Flag. It's within the adjunct story involving Keyes writing a message to another person. He makes a remark about the progress of the Autumn's refit and how far along it is to reaching the proper specs for Red Flag.

  • 08.31.2011 9:36 PM PDT

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