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  • Subject: Whos better Master Chief or Noble team
Subject: Whos better Master Chief or Noble team

I prefer fighting honorably, those are the best of matches,
But if I cant trust a team to fight back with the same sense I have, I show no mercy.
Its basically like this, if you beleive you are better then me, then face me fairly.

Which is why people who follow this type of sense hate MLG pros because "Pros" whore power weapons like crazy, which brings to the table, if you beleive you are so good, and you play for money, use a DMR and out-skill me, not outgun me.

WHO THE HELL CARES?

  • 09.14.2011 2:18 PM PDT

I do and the chief is the best next is ODSTs

  • 09.14.2011 2:32 PM PDT

I prefer fighting honorably, those are the best of matches,
But if I cant trust a team to fight back with the same sense I have, I show no mercy.
Its basically like this, if you beleive you are better then me, then face me fairly.

Which is why people who follow this type of sense hate MLG pros because "Pros" whore power weapons like crazy, which brings to the table, if you beleive you are so good, and you play for money, use a DMR and out-skill me, not outgun me.


Posted by: RandomPerson28
I do and the chief is the best next is ODSTs

I agree

  • 09.14.2011 2:33 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Surperion93
@superiorarsenal

Nice work dude.

People thinking Noble 6 is better with little, actually NO, evidence to back up their claim on Noble 6 either being better then John or out performing him. I've used Halsey as a refrence to how skilled John is in the past and it has been blindly dimissed but when other people want to use her as a refrence they call it "semi-canon".

Noble 6 have fought Huamns...in the grand scheme of the Haloverse fighting humans it pretty petty. Noble 6 has had (from what we can tell) no experience fighting the Covenant whereas John has had years worth of experience. Like it's been said in the past Human Innies =/= Covenant Soldiers. So I'm sure John would out perform N6 during the events of the trilogy. Lone wollf killing Humans =/= Lone wolf killing Flood and Covenant. Just thought I'd add that

No matter how you spin it, the Covenant are more life threatening (even the grunts) because of their tech. A few militia groups is a pretty weak example of N6 skills, especially when you know NOTHING about these militia groups. For all we know they are infact a group of farmers.


Pretty petty eh? That's why the UNSC was so desperate to end the insurrection that they had to create the Spartan II project (which didn't even fulfilled its results due to the Covenant). To make this easy, John, Linda, Fred, Kelly and Sam went to an insurgent base before the war started, and while they were able to successfully infiltrate it, John was shot and suffered heavy internal bleeding due to the gunshot (So, Insurgents are not to be messed with, as you can see.)

Then there's the whole anti-gravity plate incident, I doubt some mere farmers would be intelligent enough to know that a system as complicated as the MJOLNIR's can be overloaded with a simple gravity adjustment, not to mention, most Insurgentists are also infiltrated in the UNSC military, and (some of them) use an enhancing drug that gives them super-strength for a short time before killing them (that was used to properly counteract the Spartans).

Now, saying Six has no experience fighting the Covenant whatsoever is like saying John Forge is the Master Chief. Spartan III's were made to fight the Covenant, it makes no sense whatsoever to have a Spartan III not fight the Covenant, besides, he obviously fought them before, given the fact that he recognizes a Zealot when he runs across one and not just because of the armor, but the shield strength too. Six had at least 7 years worth of experience agaisnt the Covenant (again, Spartan III's were designed to fight the Covenant) having graduated in 2545, I doubt that he was just sitting in a command post, having some tea with Ackerson while the rest of the troopers got molested by Covenant troops.


Because he, and none of the rest of Blue Team, had real armor on that mission. In Mjolner armor human weaponry is not really an issue, it's been stated quite a few times throughout the books that bullets have very little penetrating power against Mjolner. Fighting human forces does not really compare to fighting the Covenant.

Superion wasn't saying that all Rebel groups are nothing more than groups of unorganized farmers, he said that for all we know that might be what Six faced, which is a somewhat fair argument, it's not likely that a Spartan would be sent against just farmers, but it's still a valid argument. Saying that Six took out entire militia groups seemingly by herself automatically makes her better than Chief when we know absolutely nothing about the situations that Six eliminated them under is not a fair comparison to make. It's certainly rather impressive, but we don't have enough facts on Six's missions to state that she is any better or worse.

Now this last argument is completely fair. Six most definitely fought against and has had experience fighting Covenant forces. She would not have only been deployed against Insurrectionists, especially when, as you said, the SIIIs were pretty much created to fight the Covenant and buy the UNSC time against them.

Now, as to the subject of those grav-plates and the Innies that almost killed Blue Team because of them. I think you need to reread that section, Snake and DaeFaron, John did not ignore Kurt's warnings at all! When Kurt first mentioned his funny feeling about the whole situation he told the team to keep their eyes peeled and proceed more cautiously (not in those exact words of course). And then when Kurt flashed the red light in Chief's HUD he told the team to pull out, which was just as the rebels activated those grav-plates. And the rounds in question that the Innies were threatening the captured Blues with were something akin to shredder rounds, and they were going to use them at point blank range, otherwise it was said they are horribly inaccurate and not that effective.

Even if they were meant to work as teams and thus had a lot of team based training, I'm pretty sure that the Spartan IIs would have been taught how to work alone as well, DaeFaron. It wouldn't make sense not to teach them how to work on their own as well as in a team considering the Spartans were meant to be the ultimate warriors. They can't really be the ultimate warrior if they're not taught how to operate in all the different types of fighting and survival known to man.


At least this guy understood what I ment insted of jumping to conclusions. I said as far as we know Six has come into no regular contact with Covenant. Anything other then pure sourced fact is mindless specualtion. Obviously it makes sense Six may have had experience fighting the Covenant in REAL LIFE situations (not training) but nothing heavily supports that claim so really you have nothing to go on. Again I said for all we know the militia groups were poorly trained and armed. Considering Six was probably wearing MJOLNIR aswell during these missions whereas when John got shot in TFoR he wasn't wearing hugh ass armor. Untill you can get properly sourced information regarding all this skill Noble Six seems to be so ripe with then stop ripping into my comments and prove me wrong.

"Common sense says no" Well tell me this, is common sense a fact? No, so get a new response.

And yes, in the grand scheme of things Human V Human conflict is petty. When you have a damn well super power on your doorstep whiping out your planets one by one a few innies do not matter. Sure they are still a threat and dangerous but they don't destroy worlds.

All I see is assumption so far.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 3:12 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 3:06 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Still saying it guys, 6 guns beats one gun any day.

  • 09.14.2011 3:22 PM PDT

Dialogue, Halo Reach. Six has knowledge of just how strong a zealot's shields are. Therefore Six has to have a fair amount of experience with Covenant forces.(At least some/basic experience)

Even then, my point (as I said in our chat elsewhere), was not one is better then the other. It was Six clearly has a fair amount of experience fighting completely alone, where chief lacked that.

My point in the utter basics was "A lone wolf should naturally do at least somewhat better then a team leader who is not used, or doesn't fight alone often."

I'll admit I haven't read the book in a while, I may have to re-read them.

However, it has yet to be given as hard evidence John and team slaughtered Covenant armies(one large army, one battle). The only proof I've seen was a single Spartan going about 500 to 1 odds. That's not 'compelling' evidence. It's similar to when Jonzx said four spartans jokingly saying "100 vs 4 is almost fair to them." was fact of how good Spartans are.

edit: It's kinda funny, you say we can't outright say six or noble team could do better then Chief due to lack of information, but turn around and constantly say they are automatically inferior/must be worse, despite lack of information.

In reality, you can't say they are inferior/will do worse anymore then I can say they would do better then Chief in 'hard facts'.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 3:53 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 3:47 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Dialogue, Halo Reach. Six has knowledge of just how strong a zealot's shields are. Therefore Six has to have a fair amount of experience with Covenant forces.(At least some/basic experience)

Even then, my point (as I said in our chat elsewhere), was not one is better then the other. It was Six clearly has a fair amount of experience fighting completely alone, where chief lacked that.

My point in the utter basics was "A lone wolf should naturally do at least somewhat better then a team leader who is not used, or doesn't fight alone often."

I'll admit I haven't read the book in a while, I may have to re-read them.

However, it has yet to be given as hard evidence John and team slaughtered Covenant armies(one large army, one battle). The only proof I've seen was a single Spartan going about 500 to 1 odds. That's not 'compelling' evidence. It's similar to when Jonzx said four spartans jokingly saying "100 vs 4 is almost fair to them." was fact of how good Spartans are.

edit: It's kinda funny, you say we can't outright say six or noble team could do better then Chief due to lack of information, but turn around and constantly say they are automatically inferior/must be worse, despite lack of information.

In reality, you can't say they are inferior/will do worse anymore then I can say they would do better then Chief in 'hard facts'.


I never said he was outright inferior. I was only comparing what information leads to what conclusion. It is true there is no evidence to suggest Noble 6 is worse then John but the point still stands nor is there any evidence he is any better then John. Much like the Reaper discussion somewhere else on this forum, we know too little about one side of this argument to even start to figure out an actuall outcome. My point is that from what I actually know as FACT I conlcude that logically John could probably handle Noble team in a 1v1 situation as long as he had resting periods. John has more experience and augmentations...yes dismiss the augmentations as much as you want but it is not only a fact but one of the many variables between Six and John so must be included. Also you say Six had 7 years experience? Well John has many more then that so logically I would send a person who has more experince then one who has less on a mission.

I'm sure Six is a very well trained soldier but my point is and will always be I think John did perfectly fine in the situations he found himself in the Halo trilogy and in a 1v1 scenario he could possibly stand a chance against Noble team.

But in 6v1 it's only logical to assume Noble team would slaughter John. (that part was for any one out there that calls me a MC fanboy, personally I prefer Fred)

[Edited on 09.14.2011 4:08 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 4:04 PM PDT

Well, bar the single augmentation S2's got that the S3's didn't, we can't prove one's more effective then the other due to... lack of information.

  • 09.14.2011 4:28 PM PDT
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Pfhor new members:
Hello, I am *****. I am a very active Bungie.net member and If you do not understand or need help with something with Bungie.net you can message me. I will reply with a correct and accuate answer. Welcome to the Seventh Column Army.

Dude, Noble team is completely stupid compared to master chief, it's basicly like that episode of Red vs Blue when Tex (master chief) beats the hell out of the reds (noble team).

  • 09.14.2011 4:37 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, bar the single augmentation S2's got that the S3's didn't, we can't prove one's more effective then the other due to... lack of information.


Johns years worth of experience and all the campaigns he has been involved in must also count for something. But essentially yes, lack of info in my point.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 4:38 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 4:37 PM PDT


Posted by: Makar
Dude, Noble team is completely stupid compared to master chief, it's basicly like that episode of Red vs Blue when Tex (master chief) beats the hell out of the reds (noble team).


If you are basing that off of ingame AI... I lol at you.

  • 09.14.2011 4:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, bar the single augmentation S2's got that the S3's didn't, we can't prove one's more effective then the other due to... lack of information.


Wrong. The PREDICTED results for the S-II augmentations were the same as THE results of the S-III augmentations. It was PREDICTED that S-IIs would get a 300% reaction time boost. Average human reaction time(Not simply catching a ruler) is 0.28 seconds. That would mean S-IIs would have about 0.09 second reaction times. HOWEVER, It was said in TFoR that S-IIs have a 20 millisecond reaction time. That is 0.02, which is a 1400% reaction time boost. I've posted this before, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

Master Chief has preformed fine on his own. Simply because NOBLE 6 was labled a Lone Wolf does not automatically mean he is better in a 1v1 scenario.


Also, in regards to the 6 guns vs 1 man arguement, S-IIs take 500 to 1 odds. Who has more guns in that scenario. And exactly who won? You can't just go by who has the most weapons.

  • 09.14.2011 4:45 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, bar the single augmentation S2's got that the S3's didn't, we can't prove one's more effective then the other due to... lack of information.


Wrong. The PREDICTED results for the S-II augmentations were the same as THE results of the S-III augmentations. It was PREDICTED that S-IIs would get a 300% reaction time boost. Average human reaction time(Not simply catching a ruler) is 0.28 seconds. That would mean S-IIs would have about 0.09 second reaction times. HOWEVER, It was said in TFoR that S-IIs have a 20 millisecond reaction time. That is 0.02, which is a 1400% reaction time boost. I've posted this before, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

Master Chief has preformed fine on his own. Simply because NOBLE 6 was labled a Lone Wolf does not automatically mean he is better in a 1v1 scenario.


Also, in regards to the 6 guns vs 1 man arguement, S-IIs take 500 to 1 odds. Who has more guns in that scenario. And exactly who won? You can't just go by who has the most weapons.


A: Present DIRECT quotes post-augmentation (Lucy and Thom... around gamma company gradutation) stating how fast they can run, how much they can lift, and what their reaction time is. You can't, as the information isn't given. Therefore you are making yourself look like a fool for saying that as a fact.

B: I'm not saying 'automatically six is bettar!' I'm saying regardless of all these stupid details that get shoved back and forth, a lone wolf will be more comfortable then a team leader in that type of situation.

C: 500 to 1 odds... of what kind? I doubt a Spartan 2, as super godly as they are, can take on 500 elites by themselves.

Please state this scenario of 500 to 1 odds, labeling both sides, what they had, and so on.

  • 09.14.2011 4:49 PM PDT
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A: I was working from the 300% reaction time boost that S-IIIs get. I never mentioned anything else. I JUST PROVED THAT IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOW THAT S-IIIs ARE INFERIOR(In some ways) TO S-IIs. O.09 second reaction time vs 0.02, do I really need to explain this? Actually, with MJOLNIR giving a 500% boost, that would be 0.018 vs 0.004. Still

B: Except S-IIs were trained to operate on their own and Master Chief has shown to do extremely well on his own.

C: Really? You completely missed the point. I was stating that you can not go just by who has more guns. Like you said, 500 elites would be taking a factor besides guns. I was merely pointing out the 500 has more than a S-II, yet they still one. Other factors apply.

It was Joshua saying they could take 200 to 1 odds without any real trouble, and 500 to 1 odds with some planning. Based on the situation he said it, I would assume a mix of lower-mid rank Covenant with a few higher ranks.

  • 09.14.2011 4:59 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Spartan II's were trained to be a team.

"But I won," John protested. "I was first."

"Yes,you were first," Mendez explained, "but your team came in last." He then addressed all the children. "Remember this, you don't win unless your team wins. One person winning at the expense of the group means that you lose."


So much for being lone wolves, eh?

  • 09.14.2011 5:06 PM PDT

Just cant wait till halo 4 comes out "Wake up john"

depends on what your looking for teamwork or lone wolf

  • 09.14.2011 5:08 PM PDT
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lol, the reason I disregard bungie.net. Taking quotes out of context/misapplying them

That was The first day of training. And if you had reading skills, Master Chief won that on his own. If it was a show of lone wolfmanship, he would have excelled.

Also, S-IIIs had teamwork drilled into them as much, probably more so, than the S-IIs.

  • 09.14.2011 5:11 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Spartan II's were trained to be a team.

"But I won," John protested. "I was first."

"Yes,you were first," Mendez explained, "but your team came in last." He then addressed all the children. "Remember this, you don't win unless your team wins. One person winning at the expense of the group means that you lose."


So much for being lone wolves, eh?


Indeed. And even then Spartan III's were trained even harder on the basis and needs of teamwork due to their SPI armor being obviously inferior to MJLONIR. The Spartan III's are generally better in teamwork than Spartan II's, in theory.

  • 09.14.2011 5:11 PM PDT
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THe S-IIIs operate basically the same on a teamwork level from what I've seen. They both use a "silent language." The only difference is the S-IIIs seem to NEED teamwork while S-IIs seem to do just fine without it.

  • 09.14.2011 5:15 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: superiorarsenal
THe S-IIIs operate basically the same on a teamwork level from what I've seen. They both use a "silent language." The only difference is the S-IIIs seem to NEED teamwork while S-IIs seem to do just fine without it.


The only reason the SIII's [i]''need''[/url] teamwork is 100% because of their inferior SPI armor, which makes them vunerable compared to the armor the SII's have. Had all the Spartan III's had MJLONIR like the Spartan II's, they wouldint be so dependent on teamwork.

  • 09.14.2011 5:30 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
A: I was working from the 300% reaction time boost that S-IIIs get. I never mentioned anything else. I JUST PROVED THAT IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOW THAT S-IIIs ARE INFERIOR(In some ways) TO S-IIs. O.09 second reaction time vs 0.02, do I really need to explain this? Actually, with MJOLNIR giving a 500% boost, that would be 0.018 vs 0.004. Still

B: Except S-IIs were trained to operate on their own and Master Chief has shown to do extremely well on his own.

C: Really? You completely missed the point. I was stating that you can not go just by who has more guns. Like you said, 500 elites would be taking a factor besides guns. I was merely pointing out the 500 has more than a S-II, yet they still one. Other factors apply.

It was Joshua saying they could take 200 to 1 odds without any real trouble, and 500 to 1 odds with some planning. Based on the situation he said it, I would assume a mix of lower-mid rank Covenant with a few higher ranks.


A: No, you state it as fact Spartan III's only got a 300% boost, ignoring the fact Mendez outright said as the person got more used to the augmentations, they would improve. You basically state it as impossible for Spartan III's to get anywhere close to the reaction time of S2's.

B: Every training situation I remember has the Spartan II's as a team, not alone. They could work alone yes, but they were not trained to do so. Infact, ONLY Linda was described as a lone wolf Spartan II. Also, about the "Spartan III's NEEDING Teamwork." Headhunters, Noble Six. Any S3 who had MJOLNIR armor, or shielded armor, was shown not to rely on it solely to live.

C: Joshua, IIRC, was describing a group of 20-odd Spartans in fortifications with heavy weaponry. For them to assume it would only be jackals and grunts is a big intelligence fail on their end, especially on Reach. Even then, for it to relate to this situation that means the 200 or 500 have to be equal opponents, aka Elites, brutes, or spartans.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 5:36 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 5:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: superiorarsenal
THe S-IIIs operate basically the same on a teamwork level from what I've seen. They both use a "silent language." The only difference is the S-IIIs seem to NEED teamwork while S-IIs seem to do just fine without it.


The only reason the SIII's [i]''need''[/url] teamwork is 100% because of their inferior SPI armor, which makes them vunerable compared to the armor the SII's have. Had all the Spartan III's had MJLONIR like the Spartan II's, they wouldint be so dependent on teamwork.


That and less physical capabilities.

S-IIIs that show an even higher teamwork are the Headhunters. Something like being matched to eachother by 98% or something.

  • 09.14.2011 5:36 PM PDT
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A: And the S-IIs improved as well. If you are in the millisecond range, it is hard to shave off significant amounts. Just like a runner can improve a lot from a slow time, but they can't improve much from a fast time. Are you saying S-IIIs can quadruple their reaction times?

B: You really believe a super soldier project with a 8-9 year training would leave out working on their own? Especially when Master Chief did extremely well on his own during Halo 1-3? and the headhunters use A LOT of teamwork. They are matched with a partner to 98% or so. They survive off of eachother. NOBLE 6 is a single exception out of 600+ soldiers, and NOBLE Team relies on team work, the only other S-IIIs we see with MJOLNIR.

C: No, he was not. This was while he was flying over tens of thousands of Covenant, talking to Kelly and Fred. And again, you miss my point completely, AGAIN. Simply stating one side has more guns is not an arguement. And yes, things change when you change the quality of the soldiers. A better statement is 6 armed SPARTANs vs 1 SPARTANs, not 6 guns vs 1 man. Maybe try to see the actual point of my posts instead of picking an irrelevent side arguement.

  • 09.14.2011 5:45 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: superiorarsenal
Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: superiorarsenal
THe S-IIIs operate basically the same on a teamwork level from what I've seen. They both use a "silent language." The only difference is the S-IIIs seem to NEED teamwork while S-IIs seem to do just fine without it.


The only reason the SIII's [i]''need''[/url] teamwork is 100% because of their inferior SPI armor, which makes them vunerable compared to the armor the SII's have. Had all the Spartan III's had MJLONIR like the Spartan II's, they wouldint be so dependent on teamwork.


That and less physical capabilities.


It states no where that SIII's are less physically capable than SII's.

They pretty much recieved the same augmentations, and the only difference between Spartan III's and Spartan II's is the age and experience. The member of NOBLE Team from Alpha Company, could almost certainly, equal a Spartan II on physical prowess without armor.

  • 09.14.2011 5:50 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
A: And the S-IIs improved as well. If you are in the millisecond range, it is hard to shave off significant amounts. Just like a runner can improve a lot from a slow time, but they can't improve much from a fast time. Are you saying S-IIIs can quadruple their reaction times?

B: You really believe a super soldier project with a 8-9 year training would leave out working on their own? Especially when Master Chief did extremely well on his own during Halo 1-3? and the headhunters use A LOT of teamwork. They are matched with a partner to 98% or so. They survive off of eachother. NOBLE 6 is a single exception out of 600+ soldiers, and NOBLE Team relies on team work, the only other S-IIIs we see with MJOLNIR.

C: No, he was not. This was while he was flying over tens of thousands of Covenant, talking to Kelly and Fred. And again, you miss my point completely, AGAIN. Simply stating one side has more guns is not an arguement. And yes, things change when you change the quality of the soldiers. A better statement is 6 armed SPARTANs vs 1 SPARTANs, not 6 guns vs 1 man. Maybe try to see the actual point of my posts instead of picking an irrelevent side arguement.


A: State that directly coming out of augmentation Spartan II's had that 1400% increase. Or was it stated during a training exercise a good bit later? I'm thinking the latter. Again, you are trying to state facts in an area where information is lacking.

B: Did I say Spartan II's could not act alone? No. I have simply been saying we rarely, if ever, see Spartan II's purposefully being deployed completely alone. Also, I wouldn't say Master Chief during the flood was "Extremely well."

C: So again, you are trying to say while looking over tens of thousands of Covenant, a Spartan thought they were almost entirely jackals and grunts? I'm not seeing how it relates as we have no canon examples of such a fight being won by Spartans often.

  • 09.14.2011 6:02 PM PDT