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This topic has moved here: Subject: Whos better Master Chief or Noble team
  • Subject: Whos better Master Chief or Noble team
Subject: Whos better Master Chief or Noble team
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Kurt said it himself in a quote that has appeared multiple times that S-IIIs will be nothing like the S-IIs. Everyone ignores this.

  • 09.14.2011 6:09 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
Kurt said it himself in a quote that has appeared multiple times that S-IIIs will be nothing like the S-IIs. Everyone ignores this.


Ah, fun fact. It implies neither they would be worse, or they would be better.

It can be taken several ways. You ignore this.

  • 09.14.2011 6:13 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: superiorarsenal
Kurt said it himself in a quote that has appeared multiple times that S-IIIs will be nothing like the S-IIs. Everyone ignores this.


That's why he made the training schedule tougher, to make up for the lack of "superior genes in most of them" But still, they got better training.

  • 09.14.2011 6:17 PM PDT
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A: I use something called math, you should try it. In quotes you already posted(or your side), S-IIs had a predicted 300% increase and S-IIIs had a 300% increase(reaction time). Average human reaction time for something besides merely catching a ruler is 0.28 seconds. Mendez said himself in TFoR that the S-II's reaction times were almost impossible to chart, and that they were 20 milliseconds. 20 milliseconds=0.02 seconds. 300%=3x faster. 3x faster than average would be about 0.09. 0.02 is 14x faster. 14x faster=1400% faster. Please learn basic math.

B: So killing hordes of above peak-human creatures is not excellent? They can jump 15 meters in the air and cave your head in with a single blow from a rock. They feel no pain and only want to kill you. They weild weapons aswell. "But his was almost killed by an infection form once!" Keyword here, ONCE. Please, don't post quotes that are 1 time events that don't correspond with his actual skill in an attempt to make him look bad.

C: OMFG, OMFG, OMFG! You missed the point AGAIN!!!!!!!! Please read what I'm trying to get across before you go an post an irrelevent side arguement that doesn't matter.

  • 09.14.2011 6:18 PM PDT
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no, it does imply they will be physically worse. You are just to busy sucking up to S-IIIs to realize this. They needed teamwork so heavily because physically they are not as capable as S-IIs.

  • 09.14.2011 6:20 PM PDT

"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."

This is like asking, who's better, Chuck Norris or The A-Team? Its a dumb question.

  • 09.14.2011 6:21 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Kurt watched the incoming Pelicans. The blocky jet powered craft were so distant they were only specks against the setting sun. He hit the magnification on his faceplate and saw lines of fire tracing their reentry vectors. They would touch down in three minutes. In the last six months he had developed a training regime tougher than the original SPARTAN program. He had created obstacle courses, firing ranges, classrooms, mess halls, and dormitories from what had been jungle and scrub plain.

He had received every piece of equipment he had requested from NavSpecWep Section Three. Guns, ammunition, dropships, tanks, even samples of Covenant technology and weaponry had appeared as if by sleight of hand.

All personnel were accounted for: six dozen handpicked drill instructors, physical therapists, doctors, nurses, psychologists, and the all-important cooks... all here except the most critical person, who was now on the incoming transports: Senior Chief Petty Officer Franklin Mendez, Mendez had, a dozen years ago, trained Kurt and every other Spartan. He would be invaluable in preparing the new breed of SPARTAN-III, but he wasn't going to be the solution to all Kurt's problems.

After poring over every detail of the new recruits' files, Kurt discovered they didn't match the perfect psychological and genetic markers set in Dr. Halsey's original selection protocols. Colonel Ackerson had warned him they had to draw from a "less statistically robust" group. These recruits wouldn't be anything like himself, John, Kelly, or any of the original SPARTAN-II candidates.

And this would only add to a long list of challenges. With a final target class four times larger than the SPARTAN-IIs', a severely truncated training schedule, and the need for these Spartans in the war increasing every month, Kurt, in fact, expected a disaster.


Notice that though he says they had inferior genetics (not all, as proved by Noble Team), they have a better training regime.

  • 09.14.2011 6:25 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
A: I use something called math, you should try it. In quotes you already posted(or your side), S-IIs had a predicted 300% increase and S-IIIs had a 300% increase(reaction time). Average human reaction time for something besides merely catching a ruler is 0.28 seconds. Mendez said himself in TFoR that the S-II's reaction times were almost impossible to chart, and that they were 20 milliseconds. 20 milliseconds=0.02 seconds. 300%=3x faster. 3x faster than average would be about 0.09. 0.02 is 14x faster. 14x faster=1400% faster. Please learn basic math.

B: So killing hordes of above peak-human creatures is not excellent? They can jump 15 meters in the air and cave your head in with a single blow from a rock. They feel no pain and only want to kill you. They weild weapons aswell. "But his was almost killed by an infection form once!" Keyword here, ONCE. Please, don't post quotes that are 1 time events that don't correspond with his actual skill in an attempt to make him look bad.

C: OMFG, OMFG, OMFG! You missed the point AGAIN!!!!!!!! Please read what I'm trying to get across before you go an post an irrelevent side arguement that doesn't matter.


A: Tell me exactly where it says S3's got 300% boost, and S2's were predicted that much. As far as I can tell it's just the information of the augmentation itself, which in BOTH states that much increase. So, basically it says the augmentation gives both groups a 300% increase by default.

B: Ahum... You seem to forget that chief had a number of "One time near death." Sure, he nearly got infected ONCE, nearly got flanked and killed ONCE, nearly got blasted to bits by a hunter pair ONCE, nearly got plasma grenades stuffed down his helm ONCE... See something here? I don't think having a number of near-death experiences counts as excellent. Chief didn't breeze through alpha halo no problem pal.

C: THEN POST JUST THE -blam!- POINT. If I obviously am not 'reading what you are saying' Then don't add flair. Post the point, exact quote, and leave it at that!


Posted by: superiorarsenal
no, it does imply they will be physically worse. You are just to busy sucking up to S-IIIs to realize this. They needed teamwork so heavily because physically they are not as capable as S-IIs.


Um "They will be nothing like John, Kelly, etc." Doesn't imply either way. The line by itself can be taken many ways.

edit2: Looky what I found folks! the description of the S2 reaction time augmentation.

Alteration of bioeletrical nerve transduction to shielded electronic transduction. 300% increase in subject reflexes. Anecdotal evidence of marked increase in intelligence, memory, and creativity. does it state predicted anywhere? NOPE.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 6:31 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 6:27 PM PDT
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Actually, the trainer to trainee ratio seems to be less. There were at least 1-2 trainers per S-II. 6 dozen=72. 72 instructors for 300 candidates?

And you guys make it out to be that regular S-IIIs are = to S-IIs, which they are not.

  • 09.14.2011 6:29 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

"You've read Lord of the Flies, sir?" Mendez muttered.

"I have," Kurt replied. "But your analogy will not hold. These children will have guidance. They will have discipline. And they have one thing no ordinary children have, not even the
SPARTAN-II candidates. Motivation."

  • 09.14.2011 6:31 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
Actually, the trainer to trainee ratio seems to be less. There were at least 1-2 trainers per S-II. 6 dozen=72. 72 instructors for 300 candidates?

And you guys make it out to be that regular S-IIIs are = to S-IIs, which they are not.


And you make it out to be regular S-III's = far inferior and pathetic to regular S-II's, which they are not.

  • 09.14.2011 6:32 PM PDT
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A: Actually, you already posted the augmentation stats(Maybe not you, but someone on your side) and it clearly states 300%. however, the S-II's were predicted, as Halsey was looking over the information prior to them taking place. The S-IIIs had already gone through at least 2 classes beforehand. And I have clearly proven S-IIs have much greater than 300% boost. You are just not accepting it.

B: But we can't say 6 has never had near death experiences. We don't know barely anything about him, yet you portray him as a perfect soldier that is flawless 100% of the time.

C: I have, and I have posted that you missed it multiple times. Here, since you obviously didn't get it the first 3 or 4 times

JUST BECAUSE ONE SIDE HAS MORE GUNS OR A HIGHER POPULATION DOESN'T MEAN THEY AUTOMATICALLY WIN. OTHER FACTORS APPLY LIKE TROOP QUALITY. A STATEMENT OF 6 MEN/GUNS VS 1 MAN/GUN IS NOT ENTIRELY VALID. A VALID STATEMENT IS 6 SPARTANS VS 1 SPARTAN, NOT THE SIMPLE 6>1 ARGUEMENT.

  • 09.14.2011 6:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

[quote]Posted by: superiorarsenal
Actually, the trainer to trainee ratio seems to be less. There were at least 1-2 trainers per S-II. 6 dozen=72. 72 instructors for 300 candidates?

And you guys make it out to be that regular S-IIIs are = to S-IIs, which they are not.

And you make it out to be regular S-III's = far inferior and pathetic to regular S-II's, which they are not.



When Have I said that? My point is a regular S-III is =/= to a S-II. There are exceptions of course, but I'm tired of the whole S-IIIs are just as good as S-IIs.



[Edited on 09.14.2011 6:41 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 6:39 PM PDT

Check my last post, I put the description of the reaction time augmentation for S2's. It says nothing about predicted. Thus, your point about S2's naturally getting a higher reaction time from the augmentation at first is null. You still haven't said when Mendez makes the comment about the reaction time.

I don't say Six is flawless, I never have. I simply state that Chief did not have a cakewalk through alpha halo, as you have said.

As for third part, True, until you point out how the larger side has better training, similar physical properties, and the same equipment. Thus, Noble team wins over Chief. The 6>1 statement that has been said in this topic has always refereed directly to 6 spartans vs 1. Only you seem to ignore this.

  • 09.14.2011 6:43 PM PDT
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A: Do you not know the definition of predicted? Halsey was looking at the statistics before the surgeries took place. That means they are predicted results. And I don't have TFoR handy, but I'll point you where. When Mendez is taking Halsey to watch video of S-IIs beating marines in exoskeletons in CTF in the caves. He clearly states 20 milliseconds. 20 milliseconds is about 450% faster than the predicted results and 1400% faster than average human.

B: I never said chief cakewalked, but his preformance was well above par. He fought 2 days straight against large amounts of Covenant and Hordes of Flood and beat them. How is this not excellent preformance?

C: OMFG you missed it again. at least you slightly got it this time. I am just saying a post that says 6 guns is more than 1 man are not valid on their own. Once you factor in quality it becomes valid. I'm not ignoring anything, I'm merely pointing something out.

Statement #1:
6 guns is better than 1 man
Invalid

Statement #2:
6 SPARTANs is better than 1 SPARTAN
Valid

Why are we argueing this, we both agree.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 6:52 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 6:52 PM PDT

Mendez said as the Spartans got used to the augmentations, they'd get better. The spartans were moved into the mines September 11th, 2525. They got augmentation March 9th, 2525.

That's a total of SIX months for them to get used to their augmentations, and thus gain that extra boost to reaction time. You still have yet to prove they got 1400% increase coming out of augmentations.

TBH... I can't say Chief fought 'large amounts of Covenant'. He fought a fair number yes, but typically small firefights with breaks between them.

  • 09.14.2011 7:02 PM PDT

Spartan 2s have better weapons...

  • 09.14.2011 7:06 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: xtcarnage15586
Spartan 2s have better weapons...


Incorrect, Spartan III's had MA5K which were meant for Spec-op forces, Spartan II's had standard issue weapons.

  • 09.14.2011 7:09 PM PDT
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You are saying the S-IIs increased their reaction time by 450%? Do you no how hard that would be to do? That is like running a 20 minute 5k, practicing for a month, and then running a 5 minute 5k.

  • 09.14.2011 7:10 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
You are saying the S-IIs increased their reaction time by 450%? Do you no how hard that would be to do? That is like running a 20 minute 5k, practicing for a month, and then running a 5 minute 5k.


No, I'm stating what mendez said. He said "As they get used to the augmentations, they'll get better."

So, over 6 months, they got more used to the augmentation and thus got faster in terms of reaction time due to being more comfortable with it.

Of course, that's far less then what you are saying with "Spartan 3's got 300% increase at that's it, they never got better!" Even though we never were given numbers post-augmentation for them as full adults.

A far better comparison would be running a 20 minute 5k, practicing six months, then running a faster one.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 7:15 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 7:13 PM PDT
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Better with age is neglible, especially when S-IIs started ahead in that department and improved also.

  • 09.14.2011 7:16 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: xtcarnage15586
Spartan 2s have better weapons...


Incorrect, Spartan III's had MA5K which were meant for Spec-op forces, Spartan II's had standard issue weapons.
MA5B is better then the MA2 seen in reach!

  • 09.14.2011 7:33 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: xtcarnage15586

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: xtcarnage15586
Spartan 2s have better weapons...


Incorrect, Spartan III's had MA5K which were meant for Spec-op forces, Spartan II's had standard issue weapons.
MA5B is better then the MA2 seen in reach!


The MA37 is the Army's version of the MA5B.

  • 09.14.2011 7:41 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: xtcarnage15586

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: xtcarnage15586
Spartan 2s have better weapons...


Incorrect, Spartan III's had MA5K which were meant for Spec-op forces, Spartan II's had standard issue weapons.
MA5B is better then the MA2 seen in reach!


The MA37 is the Army's version of the MA5B.
But with less ammo, less damage, less range.

Army sucks MARINES FTW

  • 09.14.2011 7:42 PM PDT

live by the sword. die with honor

Noble team is a unit as was what chief had the spartans were seperated had both units been able to battle together that would be like goldberg and stonecold teaming up.....ass whoppings all around, what it comes down to is that fact of whose where and when at what time. master chief gets the luck of the draw but he is still proof that it helps to be in the right place at the right time, so honestly each spartan is even and best at each area it just comes down to place and time......and u guns......and swords.....and rockets......and rides.......and if u got the arbiter HAHA ;) :P ^_^

  • 09.14.2011 7:48 PM PDT