Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: CoC/Public Forum Rules vs Private Groups
  • Subject: CoC/Public Forum Rules vs Private Groups
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: CoC/Public Forum Rules vs Private Groups
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."

If it's against the Rules/CoC to have Contests/Give-aways in Public Forums.... what about Private?

Let's take the most recent example; The crazy 'I have 4 thousand worth of swag and 777 bucks that you can throw to a charity if you win my contest'

What would have happened if this was held in a Private Group, rather than the Public Forums?

If a moderator noticed, would he have to report this to the Webteam?

  • 09.02.2011 9:37 AM PDT

"I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith."

Go check out The Community Carnage!

Bungiepedia
Destinypedia

Posted by: dmg04
What would have happened if this was held in a Private Group, rather than the Public Forums?

I believe it covers all areas of Bungie.net, so having it in a Private Group would still be against the CoC.
If a moderator noticed, would he have to report this to the Webteam?
I doubt they would have to. After all, in Private Groups Mods are just community members. I reckon some Mods would, though.

  • 09.02.2011 9:42 AM PDT

Five years older and wiser
The fires are burning, I'm fire, never tire
Slay warriors in the forests, and on hire

I know we have outstanding members in our community who report this kind of rule breaking. No matter if it's contests or cool threads, if it breaks the rules it needs to be shut down.

Molo thank god you're here to save us.

  • 09.02.2011 9:46 AM PDT

Hello! I'm Bunie.net's resident medical student (hell i'm sure there are more but I'm the only one who openly declares it!) I love my emblem, and I am periodically active.
I have a Twitter

I think private groups are under our control, thats what it says when you make one anyway.

  • 09.02.2011 9:49 AM PDT

This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends;
Not with a bang but a whimper.

I don't know for sure, but I believe you are allowed to if you wish. Even if you aren't, unless you have a Ninja as a member of your group, you're probably still safe.

  • 09.02.2011 11:23 AM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

In the terms or use it says:
when using a Communication Service, you will not... Advertise or offer to sell or buy any goods or services for any business purpose, unless such Communication Service specifically allows such messages.
So I imagine that if you got caught you would probably get in trouble.

  • 09.02.2011 11:48 AM PDT

He's right, auctioning or sales of any kind are against the contract you agreed to when you signed up. There may be legal repercussions involved, if Bungie so chooses. (I think, wait for Foman to clarify) :)
Posted by: ApocalypeX
I know we have outstanding members in our community who report this kind of rule breaking. No matter if it's contests or cool threads, if it breaks the rules it needs to be shut down.

Molo thank god you're here to save us.

  • 09.02.2011 12:01 PM PDT

"Once Bungie takes over the world, The Marty Army will take over Bungie and then we'll really have some fun."
-Marty O'Donnell

"Condemnant quod non intellegunt."

Make Bungie.net More Enjoyable: Read & Follow

CoC aside, Bungie.net history has shown that financial dealings ANYWHERE on the site lead to bad things. I'd steer clear of it entirely.

  • 09.02.2011 12:03 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: CTN 0452 9
In the terms or use it says:
when using a Communication Service, you will not... Advertise or offer to sell or buy any goods or services for any business purpose, unless such Communication Service specifically allows such messages.
So I imagine that if you got caught you would probably get in trouble.
Intentionally vague TOUs will get you into trouble. "Business purpose" makes me think that there has an exchange of goods in order for it to violate the agreement. Does holding a contest where there is a prize (and which isn't sponsored by a business entity) a violation? Is an NPO spokesperson conducting such a give away/contest a violation? Is any situation where goods aren't exchanged a violation?

  • 09.02.2011 1:07 PM PDT

Eh... I'm not sure. Somebody PM Foman. I would, but I've spammed his inbox enough over the past month, poor guy. :P
Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: CTN 0452 9
In the terms or use it says:
when using a Communication Service, you will not... Advertise or offer to sell or buy any goods or services for any business purpose, unless such Communication Service specifically allows such messages.
So I imagine that if you got caught you would probably get in trouble.
Intentionally vague TOUs will get you into trouble. "Business purpose" makes me think that there has an exchange of goods in order for it to violate the agreement. Does holding a contest where there is a prize (and which isn't sponsored by a business entity) a violation? Is an NPO spokesperson conducting such a give away/contest a violation? Is any situation where goods aren't exchanged a violation?

  • 09.02.2011 1:12 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.


Posted by: dibbs089
Intentionally vague TOUs will get you into trouble. "Business purpose" makes me think that there has an exchange of goods in order for it to violate the agreement.
Honestly, if that's how you read that clause of the ToU, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Not trying to offend you or anything, but that's clearly not what it says.

Also, why do you think that intentionally vague ToUs will "get you into trouble"?

  • 09.02.2011 1:28 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: dibbs089
Intentionally vague TOUs will get you into trouble. "Business purpose" makes me think that there has an exchange of goods in order for it to violate the agreement.
Honestly, if that's how you read that clause of the ToU, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Not trying to offend you or anything, but that's clearly not what it says.

Also, why do you think that intentionally vague ToUs will "get you into trouble"?


I think he means that when its so open for interpretation that the effect will be that many things you didn't intend to be allowed are allowed under a technicality. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I interpreted it.

  • 09.02.2011 1:35 PM PDT

I spend too much time here.. too much time indeed.

I tweet?

I briefly reviewed both the ToU and CoC and I don't see anywhere that explicitly states that you aren't allowed to hold a contest within the privacy of your group. As long as it doesn't violate the law in any fashion.

If I missed something I apologize for the misinterpretation.

As for the ToU being "intentionally vague" a lot of contracts you agree are created in a similar fashion, being some things left to open interpretation while using blanket terms to add extended coverage for things they may have not thought of at that time. It's not there to "get you into trouble", rather it's there to actually help you. As well as cover their own hides.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 1:38 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 1:38 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Groups I've been in have held contests for prizes all the time. There's nothing wrong with it, feel free to give away as many prizes as you'd like.

  • 09.02.2011 1:41 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.


Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: dibbs089
Intentionally vague TOUs will get you into trouble. "Business purpose" makes me think that there has an exchange of goods in order for it to violate the agreement.
Honestly, if that's how you read that clause of the ToU, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Not trying to offend you or anything, but that's clearly not what it says.
Based on the words immediately prior to "business purpose", I'm fairly sure that's what it implies. Feel free to share your interpretation though.

Edit: There was a typo on my part it should say "has to be" (though I doubt that makes a difference).

Also, why do you think that intentionally vague ToUs will "get you into trouble"? Intentionally vague anythings will get you into trouble. There is ambiguity in both rules and laws. Successful arguments (when challenging rules and laws) depend on convincing people that the grey area represents what you want it to represent. If you have a larger grey area, there is more room for a successful challenge to a rule. You can argue that my previous examples would violate the TOU, but you would first have to prove it using the language supplied in the TOU.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 1:48 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 1:42 PM PDT

@JosephBiwald
View my Art

Per Audacia Ad Astra

That contest was apparently a "legal liability issue for Bungie". Also a few user probably complained to Achronos because they couldn't get anything right and are poor losers.
Posted by: dmg04

  • 09.02.2011 1:43 PM PDT


Posted by: Specter Wolf
I briefly reviewed both the ToU and CoC and I don't see anywhere that explicitly states that you aren't allowed to hold a contest within the privacy of your group. As long as it doesn't violate the law in any fashion.


Website Terms of Use, Privacy policies, and Codes of conduct aren't for you. They're meant to protect businesses from frivolous lawsuits.

They're written so that even if you can understand the words, it would take a law degree (who do you think writes these?) to correctly interpret them.

  • 09.02.2011 1:44 PM PDT

Everyone will now turn against the OP because Foman disagreed with him.

  • 09.02.2011 1:46 PM PDT

I'd like to see that!
...
*A wild Forum Ninja appeared!*
Foman used: LEGUL SPEEK!
900 DAMAGE!
Posted by: dibbs089
You can argue that my previous examples would violate the TOU, but you would first have to prove it using the language supplied in the TOU.

  • 09.02.2011 1:50 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: ctjl96
Everyone will now turn against the OP because Foman disagreed with him.

Just because a majority believes something doesn't make it right.

I was going to argue your premise but I know the community often gets distracted by shiny baubles so...

  • 09.02.2011 1:50 PM PDT

"I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith."

Go check out The Community Carnage!

Bungiepedia
Destinypedia

The Bungie Web Sites may contain bulletin board services, chat areas, news groups, forums, communities, personal web pages, calendars, and/or other message or communication facilities designed to enable you to communicate with the public at large or with a group (collectively, "Communication Services"), you agree to use the Communication Services only to post, send and receive messages and material that are proper and related to the particular Communication Service. By way of example, and not as a limitation, you agree that when using a Communication Service, you will not:

Conduct or forward surveys, contests, pyramid schemes or chain letters.

Unless I understand that wrong, even in groups you aren't allowed contests.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 1:54 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 1:51 PM PDT

I was just saying that since Foman disagreed with you (I mistook you for the OP) everyone else in this thread will now take his side and argue against you. :P
Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: ctjl96
Everyone will now turn against the OP because Foman disagreed with him.

Just because a majority believes something doesn't make it right.

I was going to argue your premise but I know the community often gets distracted by shiny baubles so...

  • 09.02.2011 1:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: x Foman123 x
Honestly, if that's how you read that clause of the ToU, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Not trying to offend you or anything, but that's clearly not what it says.
Based on the words immediately prior to "business purpose", I'm fairly sure that's what it implies. Feel free to share your interpretation though.
The words "advertise," "offer," and "services" all blatantly and directly contradict your interpretation. In no way, shape, or form do the Terms of Use require an "exchange of goods" in order for a violation to occur.

Also, why do you think that intentionally vague ToUs will "get you into trouble"? Intentionally vague anythings will get you into trouble. There is ambiguity in both rules and laws. Successful arguments (when challenging rules and laws) depend on convincing people that the grey area represents what you want it to represent. If you have a larger grey area, there is more room for a successful challenge to a rule. You can argue that my previous examples would violate the TOU, but you would first have to prove it using the language supplied in the TOU.You don't understand; this is not a law. This is a set of terms of use to which you must agree before you can use this website. They are intentionally broad (what you're calling "vague") in order to inform users of a wide category of issues which may result in their removal from the website. And their removal from the website is in the sole discretion of Bungie and/or its designees -- another thing that users agree to before they can use the website.

In that sense, Bungie does not have to "argue" or "prove" anything at all. It can remove you from this website for any reason or no reason at all, as it sees fit. The Terms of Use provide you with notice of the kinds of things which will result in your removal, either temporarily or permanently. But by no means do they constitute a "gray area" or a "line" which requires Bungie to "prove" that you crossed it. So no, intentionally broad Terms of Use are not going to get anyone in trouble.

  • 09.02.2011 2:17 PM PDT

900 DAMAGE!
Thanks for making my day, Foman.
Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: dibbs089
Posted by: x Foman123 x
Honestly, if that's how you read that clause of the ToU, you need to work on your reading comprehension. Not trying to offend you or anything, but that's clearly not what it says.
Based on the words immediately prior to "business purpose", I'm fairly sure that's what it implies. Feel free to share your interpretation though.
The words "advertise," "offer," and "services" all blatantly and directly contradict your interpretation. In no way, shape, or form do the Terms of Use require an "exchange of goods" in order for a violation to occur.

Also, why do you think that intentionally vague ToUs will "get you into trouble"? Intentionally vague anythings will get you into trouble. There is ambiguity in both rules and laws. Successful arguments (when challenging rules and laws) depend on convincing people that the grey area represents what you want it to represent. If you have a larger grey area, there is more room for a successful challenge to a rule. You can argue that my previous examples would violate the TOU, but you would first have to prove it using the language supplied in the TOU.You don't understand; this is not a law. This is a set of terms of use to which you must agree before you can use this website. They are intentionally broad (what you're calling "vague") in order to inform users of a wide category of issues which may result in their removal from the website. And their removal from the website is in the sole discretion of Bungie and/or its designees -- another thing that users agree to before they can use the website.

In that sense, Bungie does not have to "argue" or "prove" anything at all. It can remove you from this website for any reason or no reason at all, as it sees fit. The Terms of Use provide you with notice of the kinds of things which will result in your removal, either temporarily or permanently. But by no means do they constitute a "gray area" or a "line" which requires Bungie to "prove" that you crossed it. So no, intentionally broad Terms of Use are not going to get anyone in trouble.

  • 09.02.2011 2:19 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."

So yeah;
Let's say someone runs the same sort of contest found in the OP in a Private Group?


If a mod sees it, does he have to report it?
What if a mod or employee sees this after all is said and done? Is this something you can be banned for?

Also, Fo, that last post needs more wall.

  • 09.02.2011 2:24 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2