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Subject: So wait - who were the Brutes in ODST?

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I just played through ODST again this week and am a little confused about whose Brutes are those found throughout the game. As Buck, you see a dead Elite literally minutes after Regret makes the jump to Delta Halo. You might even conclude that Truth set about the extermination of the Elites in NM before Regret left. But Truth can't have sent any ships by this point, partly because we would have seen them during the many hours spent playing as ODSTs, and partly because he surely wouldn't have had time. So these Brutes must be those in the remnants of Regret's fleet, right? But wasn't Regret's fleet primarily composed of Elites? After all, there were no Brutes on the ground nor in any of the defence platform boarding parties. And so I have to ask: how on Earth did the Brutes manage to overthrow the Elites so very swiftly?

If somebody could explain the sequence of events that occurred on October 20 as far as Brutes, Fleets and Elites goes, it would be appreciated.

Cheers.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 1:28 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 1:26 PM PDT

The brutes were on the ship and used as the strike forces in the heavily populated city center. When Regret jumped, they simply overwhelmed and killed the Elites most likely because they had orders to, and regret's leaving just forced them to do it then instead of when the portal was uncovered.

  • 09.02.2011 1:37 PM PDT

I thought the Truth's fleet arrived moments after Regret and his ships jumped out? Even before Regret's death and the splitting of the Covenant, Truth's Brutes started removing every Elite from the ground. With very few Elites left because of how suddenly their entire fleet left Earth and how they only had one ship left above Earth from the fleet... The Brutes had no trouble in killing the few Elites in the few hours before the Rookie woke up.

  • 09.02.2011 1:46 PM PDT

Because Bungie couldn't be bothered to create an enemy AI for the Halo 3 Elite model.

  • 09.02.2011 2:59 PM PDT
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I don't understand the question

  • 09.02.2011 3:06 PM PDT


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Because Bungie couldn't be bothered to create an enemy AI for the Halo 3 Elite model.

They could have just re-used the AI they did for Halo 3. They used the same mechanics and engine as 3, but just made new environments.

  • 09.02.2011 3:06 PM PDT


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Because Bungie couldn't be bothered to create an enemy AI for the Halo 3 Elite model.


Wrong.

The 'Squad Patrol' AI for H3:ODST is essentially a mobile version of the existing AI patterns used for Halo 3 - the enemy AI simply move along a randomised search pattern as a squad and react to the player as they normally would upon an encounter. As for stationary enemy AI, you can port over the existing AI behaviour with perhaps a few extra modifications.

What you have to realise is that ODST is the Halo 3 engine, through and through (albeit with some graphical updates). It's the same game, with the same bare skeleton - it just has some new guts, flesh and skin.

So, it's entirely possible to implement Elites as enemy AI.

  • 09.02.2011 3:09 PM PDT


Posted by: Weylander

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Because Bungie couldn't be bothered to create an enemy AI for the Halo 3 Elite model.


So, it's entirely possible to implement Elites as enemy AI.


You mean "impossible"?
Bungie violated their own story written in Halo 2 with Elites everywhere and no Brutes in sight because they were too lazy to create an Elite AI. It's an insult because Elites are far more favored than Brutes to fight among the fans.
At minimum, it wouldn't have taken that long for what the game is worth. All you really needed to do was copy/paste the Brute AI to the Elite model/hit box, modify it to be Elite-friendly, test it, and we're set.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 3:50 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 3:46 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

This whole Brute thing is probably just a retcon. Just because we didn't see the Brutes doesn't mean they weren't there.

All you really needed to do was copy/paste the Brute AI to the Elite model/hit box, modify it to be Elite-friendly, test it, and we're set.

I think we should leave the game development to the actual developers Ruby, I doubt it's as easy as you claim to be.


[Edited on 09.02.2011 3:51 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 3:50 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
This whole Brute thing is probably just a retcon. Just because we didn't see the Brutes doesn't mean they weren't there.

All you really needed to do was copy/paste the Brute AI to the Elite model/hit box, modify it to be Elite-friendly, test it, and we're set.

I think we should leave the game development to the actual developers Ruby, I doubt it's as easy as you claim to be.


It's a summary of the basic process. Explain any extra steps/complications there are to the summary I just gave. It's not a study of the brain. It's a process of commands and scripting.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 3:57 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 3:55 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I'm not a developer, but a copy/paste job, even as a basic explanation, probably isn't the solution.

  • 09.02.2011 3:56 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I'm not a developer, but a copy/paste job, even as a basic explanation, probably isn't the solution.


For a huge, more formal title, no. But this is an expansion. What's not the solution is giving a middle finger to an entire section of the second game which this was based around, not only by violating who the enemies were in the city, but by giving us the cheap knock-offs that try to take their place.

Also, there was never any explanation as to why Brutes were randomly showing up everywhere with no Elites in sight. As well as the fact that all of the Elites were somehow all collectively murdered about two minutes by the Brutes even though the Elites are smarter in the head, and take more tactical approaches to battle compared to them.
You can't say it's a retcon, but rather, and fallacy to which Brutes are inexplicably everywhere and all Elites are all dead.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 4:04 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 3:59 PM PDT


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Bungie violated their own story written in Halo 2 with Elites everywhere and no Brutes in sight because they were too lazy to create an Elite AI. It's an insult because Elites are far more favored than Brutes to fight among the fans.


Um, wrong actually.

Did Chief go into the New Mombasa proper? Nope. Did Chief even go NEAR where ODST takes place? Nope.

So how can you say only Elites took place in the attack on Earth? Hell, in Ghosts of Onyx, They are fighting brutes in other places on the planet.

  • 09.02.2011 4:02 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I'm not a developer, but a copy/paste job, even as a basic explanation, probably isn't the solution.


For a huge, more formal title, no. But this is an expansion. What's not the solution is giving a middle finger to an entire section of the second game which this was based around, not only by violating who the enemies were in the city, but by giving us the cheap knock-offs that try to take their place.


1. Yes, it's an expansion, but it still runs off the code of the lats game with no Elite enemy AI.

2. Just because you didn't see the Brutes in New Mombasa in Halo 2 doesn't mean they were there.

  • 09.02.2011 4:02 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I'm not a developer, but a copy/paste job, even as a basic explanation, probably isn't the solution.


For a huge, more formal title, no. But this is an expansion. What's not the solution is giving a middle finger to an entire section of the second game which this was based around, not only by violating who the enemies were in the city, but by giving us the cheap knock-offs that try to take their place.


2. Just because you didn't see the Brutes in New Mombasa in Halo 2 doesn't mean they were there.


Read edit.

  • 09.02.2011 4:05 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Bungie violated their own story written in Halo 2 with Elites everywhere and no Brutes in sight because they were too lazy to create an Elite AI. It's an insult because Elites are far more favored than Brutes to fight among the fans.


Um, wrong actually.

Did Chief go into the New Mombasa proper? Nope. Did Chief even go NEAR where ODST takes place? Nope.


Then isn't it funny how we never saw that part of the city in Halo 2? That that section just spontaneously appeared just for the Brutes to be there? I'm starting to think that that section of NM was only created for the sole purpose of being able to say that Brutes were in the city the whole time, just in this nonexistent part. Retcons for laziness! YEAH!!

  • 09.02.2011 4:08 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

I thought Halo 2 took place in Old Mombasa....

  • 09.02.2011 4:10 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Perhaps there were more Brutes on Earth than we realized. I would think most of the Elites would get called back to Regret's carrier and then the remaining Elites would get overwhelmed by the majority of Brute forces.

And Ruby, it's funny how you now hate retcons, but just the other day you were for retcons.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 4:12 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 4:11 PM PDT


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Bungie violated their own story written in Halo 2 with Elites everywhere and no Brutes in sight because they were too lazy to create an Elite AI. It's an insult because Elites are far more favored than Brutes to fight among the fans.


Um, wrong actually.

Did Chief go into the New Mombasa proper? Nope. Did Chief even go NEAR where ODST takes place? Nope.


Then isn't it funny how we never saw that part of the city in Halo 2? That that section just spontaneously appeared just for the Brutes to be there? I'm starting to think that that section of NM was only created for the sole purpose of being able to say that Brutes were in the city the whole time, just in this nonexistent part. Retcons for laziness! YEAH!!


Halo two took part in Old Mombasa, and the industrial section of New Mombasa. Neither place was in Halo 3 ODST.

Also, The elites being wiped out quickly is the same thing for the Council members in halo 2. They did not expect the Brutes to suddenly and 'brutally' turn against them.

  • 09.02.2011 4:20 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Perhaps there were more Brutes on Earth than we realized. I would think most of the Elites would get called back to Regret's carrier and then the remaining Elites would get overwhelmed by the majority of Brute forces.


True.

And Ruby, it's funny how you now hate retcons, but just the other day you were for retcons.

It's called standards. What's more outrageous? Violating a game (Halo 2) or violating a silly little book that doesn't even have any merit (Halo Encyclopedia)?

[Edited on 09.02.2011 4:24 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 4:23 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Again, Halo 2's Mombasa levels took place in Old Mombasa aka the industrialized section of the city, John was heading to New Mombasa but his Pelican was shot down by the Scarab in Halo 2, besides, the bridge to New Mombasa (Halo 3: ODST's) is broken, thus, no going to New Mombasa by foot.

  • 09.02.2011 4:25 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10
Bungie violated their own story written in Halo 2 with Elites everywhere and no Brutes in sight because they were too lazy to create an Elite AI. It's an insult because Elites are far more favored than Brutes to fight among the fans.


Um, wrong actually.

Did Chief go into the New Mombasa proper? Nope. Did Chief even go NEAR where ODST takes place? Nope.


Then isn't it funny how we never saw that part of the city in Halo 2? That that section just spontaneously appeared just for the Brutes to be there? I'm starting to think that that section of NM was only created for the sole purpose of being able to say that Brutes were in the city the whole time, just in this nonexistent part. Retcons for laziness! YEAH!!


Halo two took part in Old Mombasa, and the industrial section of New Mombasa. Neither place was in Halo 3 ODST.


The thing is, we never saw the section which ODST takes place in anywhere in the distance in Halo 2, which makes this hasty retcon a little less than believable, and only suggests that it's a lazy cover-up just to have Brutes, and not create a not even new AI script for Elites.

[Edited on 09.02.2011 4:29 PM PDT]

  • 09.02.2011 4:25 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Perhaps there were more Brutes on Earth than we realized. I would think most of the Elites would get called back to Regret's carrier and then the remaining Elites would get overwhelmed by the majority of Brute forces.


True.

And Ruby, it's funny how you now hate retcons, but just the other day you were for retcons.

It's called standards. What's more outrageous? Violating a game (Halo 2) or violating a silly little book that doesn't even have any merit (Halo Encyclopedia).


Both are outrageous. Just because YOU view the book as without merit doesn't mean it doesn't. And you still haven;t said how ODST violates Halo 2's canon since we didn't really stick around on Earth very long.

Much of New Mombasa was left unexplored by Chief in Halo 2.

  • 09.02.2011 4:25 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Perhaps there were more Brutes on Earth than we realized. I would think most of the Elites would get called back to Regret's carrier and then the remaining Elites would get overwhelmed by the majority of Brute forces.


True.

And Ruby, it's funny how you now hate retcons, but just the other day you were for retcons.

It's called standards. What's more outrageous? Violating a game (Halo 2) or violating a silly little book that doesn't even have any merit (Halo Encyclopedia).


Both are outrageous. Just because YOU view the book as without merit doesn't mean it doesn't.


I swear, you act like that encyclopedia is the bible.

  • 09.02.2011 4:27 PM PDT

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