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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo Cryptum sucks
  • Subject: Halo Cryptum sucks
Subject: Halo Cryptum sucks

While I disagree with what you said I'll defend to the death you're right to say it. :P

But in all seriousness if you re-read Contact Harvest Bias tells the to be Phrophets that we are his makers, living forerunners and in the Halo-3 Terminals the Librarian goes on about her discovery of Humanity and Earth so late into the War and how all of it could shed light on Forerunner origins.

And I'm not trying to hate Cryptum, I even said on it's own it's an interesting story, but to me it doesn't feel like Halo. I do appreciate that a lot of people like the new direction of the series, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the subject. I didn't mean to come off as a troll if that's what it seemed like.

[Edited on 09.06.2011 2:17 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2011 2:13 PM PDT

That's not a valid reason to hate the book, in fact, looking at your post, I doubt you have read the book to begin with.

We all knew that the Forerunners would be eventually explored.

  • 09.06.2011 2:18 PM PDT

I got the book in hard cover the third day it came out and read it from front to back. For goodness sake I didn't say I hated the book I was making the point that 343/Greg Bear went overboard in certain plot elements and deviated too much from what I thought Bungie made the Forerunners and there backstory originally out to be. And because of those said changes it didn't feel like the same story we've been playing and reading about for all these years. Yeeeeash. How carefully did you read my post dude?

  • 09.06.2011 2:30 PM PDT


Posted by: Old Salty27
While I disagree with what you said I'll defend to the death you're right to say it. :P

But in all seriousness if you re-read Contact Harvest Bias tells the to be Phrophets that we are his makers, living forerunners and in the Halo-3 Terminals the Librarian goes on about her discovery of Humanity and Earth so late into the War and how all of it could shed light on Forerunner origins.

And I'm not trying to hate Cryptum, I even said on it's own it's an interesting story, but to me it doesn't feel like Halo. I do appreciate that a lot of people like the new direction of the series, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the subject. I didn't mean to come off as a troll if that's what it seemed like.


No, I never thought you were a troll, just misinformed.

That said, I don't think you read what I wrote all to well. I agree that Medicant Bias said "Those it represents are my makers." In fact I can remember everything Bias said in detail without needing the book, in part because of its importance, and in part because he says so little. "For eons I have watched, listened to you misinterpret. This is not Reclamation, this is Reclaimer, and those it represents are my makers. I will reject my Bias and will make amends. My makers are my masters. I will bring them safely to the Ark."

I can understand why someone would think this is a retcon, I thought the same as well initially. It is in fact not, however. If you remember what Guilty Spark said: "You are the child of my makers, inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner but this ring is mine!" he actually heavily implies throughout that entire rant that we are related to the Forerunner race, not the Forerunners themselves. He says "child of my makers" not "my makers." He says "inheritor of all they left behind" not "creator of all they left behind." When put in context, that does not make sense given what Bias says in Harvest. And it didn't make sense until Cryptum.

I return you again to the fact that Forerunner is a title, not a race of individuals. Those who have inherited the Mantle are Forerunners. We are Forerunners. The race who comes after us are Forerunners. Precursors are not Forerunners because they are ther creators of the Mantle (literally, Precursor means "one that precedes and indicates the approach of another" which is to say, the original). If you look at it the way Bear wrote it, with the Forerunner race as we know it being a seperate, yet genetically related, race, it makes perfect sense, and still insures that Spark and Bias were in fact telling the truth. We are Medicant Bias' masters, and as Forerunners, we are his maker; take note of the chosen word "represents" saying we represent the Forerunner lineage, we are not the Ancient race of beings who literally constructed the Halos. In Spark's rampage, he refused to accept the Humans' title as Forerunner and so only saw it in a literal and biased sense, being the ignorant, dumb child that would see it all destroyed rather then the mature Forerunner who would protect it.

As for the terminals, I cannot recall what you said, and as I'm pretty sure Halopedia is hacked again, I'm not going to search for it. I will say this though: understand that we're only in book one, so we will be understandably lost. Considering the plethora of revelations and twist, I think thats kinda supposed to be the point. So lets wait for Primordial and Book Three before calling sucktitude.

[Edited on 09.06.2011 2:55 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2011 2:50 PM PDT

What you have to realise is, the Forerunner race has been a mystery so far, but after ten years, new fiction needs to be added to the universe, and old questions need to be answered. If you leave things a mystery too long, people eventually lose interest. I'm personally fascinated by the Forerunners, and learning more about their culture and sensibilities, is something I don't see as being a bad thing.

  • 09.06.2011 2:53 PM PDT

╔═╦═╦═╦═╦╗╔═╗
║║║╦╠═╠═║║║═╣
║║║║║═╣═╣╚╣═╣
╚═╩╩╩═╩═╩═╩═╝
says Play safe

Mysteries are boring when they remain unsolved.

Want to keep the mystery? STOP EVERYTHING HALO (play Plants VS. Zombies)

  • 09.06.2011 2:55 PM PDT

Straight Edge.


Posted by: Fatal Factor
Get out.

  • 09.06.2011 3:13 PM PDT

ROBERTO you make some good points, but some of the new info in Cryptum still feels like recanon. I suppose I'll give Primordium a chance, hopefully it will make sense of some of the twists and unanswered questions Cryptum set up. I still feel that 343 made the Human-Forerunner dynamic more complicated than it needed to be with the Forerunners nearly driving Humanity to extinction only to make them the inheritors of their empire once the arrays fired. Still trying to wrap my head around that.

[Edited on 09.06.2011 6:31 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2011 6:29 PM PDT


Posted by: Old Salty27
ROBERTO you make some good points, but some of the new info in Cryptum still feels like recanon. I suppose I'll give Primordium a chance, hopefully it will make sense of some of the twists and unanswered questions Cryptum set up. I still feel that 343 made the Human-Forerunner dynamic more complicated than it needed to be with the Forerunners nearly driving Humanity to extinction only to make them the inheritors of their empire once the arrays fired. Still trying to wrap my head around that.


So am I, in a way. My mind was definitely blown while reading it, and at first I thought it was a little too much information, so much so that I actually didn't like it at first. But after a while I processed the info and it all came together and now I enjoy it.

Though if you want some canon clarification, you could always ask Vociferous on 343i's website. He works for 343i and is the overall canon guru. Mind, to avoid spoilers for future title, he can only say so much.

I also think its imperative we know the Forerunner story, in light of the Reclaimer Trilogy and all.

  • 09.06.2011 6:36 PM PDT

I loathed Cryptum, it completely goes against everything Bungie intended Halo to be. The Forerunners were supposed to be, what their name is, our Forerunners. Bungie intended Humanity to be the ancient evolutionary cousins of the Forerunners, not a completely different species. Its utterly ridiculous.

  • 09.06.2011 7:44 PM PDT

Seriously. You are the only person who's agreed with me on this so far. Thought I was the only one. I'm still genuinely surprised more long time Halo fans are not annoyed by the changes and view the new canon as something Bungie had in mind when everything produced during their stewardship of the Halo series points otherwise. The original trilogy stops making sense when Forerunner are no longer Human ancestors; from the basis of the Human-Covanent War, Spark, Bias and the Onyx Sentinels recognising Humans as Forerunners/Reclaimers. Speaking of which, Humans being reclaimers makes much less sense when they are not in fact Forerunner as Cryptum suggests. Reclaiming something implies previous ownership, that's why Humans being Forerunners made sense.

Adding to the theory that Bungie always intended Humans to be
Forerunners take this into account; have you wondered why the Forerunners didn't index themselves with all the other species on the Ark or why the Librarian didn't return from earth once humanity was spirited away to the Ark? It is because her species(Humans) was indexed and stayed behind with those she couldn't bring to the Ark out of guilt. The Terminals state she could only bring so many specimens to the Ark and instead of going back spent her last days on Earth before the rings fired.

The Halo-3 Terminals also state that the Forerunners didn't know their true Origins, but the Librarian tells Didact that Earth and Humans may hold the key. And while Humans and Forerunners might not be 100% the same, in GoO a sentinel refers to a S3 as a indigenous sub-species, thought that might be because of the augmentations the 3s went through.

The list supporting Forerunners being humans goes on and on in Bungies trilogy/ expanded universe; Truth and Mercy telling Chief and Johnson how once the rings fire 'This time none of you will be left behind." and "Your forefather's wisely set aside there compassion. Steeled themselves to do what had to be done. I know now why they left you behind. You were weak and Gods must be Strong." There are other examples, but I think I've made my point. I really don't think Bungie would build up Humans to be Forerunners only to do a 180 especially when they intended to end the series with Halo-3. All the new and conflicting info is all 343.



[Edited on 09.06.2011 8:33 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2011 7:55 PM PDT
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:)

You're trying really really hard to hate the book, aren't you?

  • 09.06.2011 8:51 PM PDT

...................... _ . _

I don't hate the book, I just like Bungie's story better.

[Edited on 09.06.2011 8:54 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2011 8:52 PM PDT


Posted by: Old Salty27
...................... _ . _

I don't hate the book, I just like Bungie's story better.


...Yeah, I more-so prefer Bungie's perception of Halo, really.
Also, I now believe (if not if it made it more evident) that with Reach, Bungie really expressed the way they wanted Halo, i.e., by their own terms, not the novel's.
That's not to say I don't accept what 343 is putting out, but I really admire that Bungie (Which I now think and evidently--) created the story the way they saw it and wanted it.
I'm wondering if they realized that using novels to tell a video game's backstory is totally half-arsed as well.
In any case, I finally realize why Bungie took the road they did with Reach, and I can now fully respect that.

inb4Cobra
inb4grey
inb4ragnarok
inb4awj
inb4SEALSNIPER
inb4anton

[Edited on 09.06.2011 9:14 PM PDT]

  • 09.06.2011 9:12 PM PDT
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:)

Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Old Salty27
...................... _ . _

I don't hate the book, I just like Bungie's story better.


...Yeah, I more-so prefer Bungie's perception of Halo, really.
Also, I now believe (if not if it made it more evident) that with Reach, Bungie really expressed the way they wanted Halo, i.e., by their own terms, not the novel's.
That's not to say I don't accept what 343 is putting out, but I really admire that Bungie (Which I now think and evidently--) created the story the way they saw it and wanted it.
I'm wondering if they realized that using novels to tell a video game's backstory is totally half-arsed as well.
In any case, I finally realize why Bungie took the road they did with Reach, and I can now fully respect that.

inb4Cobra
inb4grey
inb4ragnarok
inb4awj
inb4SEALSNIPER
inb4anton

You sound like an ignorant Bungie 'fan-boy'.

Halo Reach was terrible. Did you even play the campaign? The book absolutely -blam!-s all over it.

How is using novels to flesh out a backstory 'half-arsed'? I'm pretty sure a single novel has more story elements in it than a lacklustre campaign such as Reach's.

  • 09.06.2011 9:21 PM PDT

I always thought Reach for Bungie was kind of the game they didn't really want to make, but were forced to make under contract with MS. Bungie has always kept game canon and book canon more or less in line, but I feel like they didn't have a lot of options for story lines for there final Halo game. Another small story taking in place in the Haloverse like ODST wouldn't have been epic enough and although they did consider doing Halo 4 at first they realized they could never finish the story line, so a prequel made the most sense despite there already being one in book form.

Bungie had said with Reach they wanted to tell a new story and not a game version of the Fall of Reach and they wanted a story with characters they could start and finish themselves. That being said, I get the feeling since Bungie no longer had creative control over their own series they didn't have a lot of incentive to put a lot of effort into the story. I kinda get why they would do so, since they are working on a whole new IP that they own I'd think they'd want to keep there best ideas for the new series.

  • 09.06.2011 9:27 PM PDT

Yeah. I agree, Reach's Campaign was pretty weak to say the least. The games saving grace is multiplayer and firefight, which blows away any game modes in Halo-3 or ODST.

  • 09.06.2011 9:33 PM PDT

I am open to doing free clan tags for anyone. Contact me on my deviant art profile through a note and NOT on my comments page as they will not be acknowledged.

Click on the "My Homepage" button to be directed to my page.

Forerunners Step down from the Mysterious pedestal, Precursors step down from the unknown pedestal onto the mysterious one.

  • 09.06.2011 9:48 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

I enjoyed a lot Cryptum, I enjoyed the mystery of the Forrunners but now it's time to move on and know more about them and their war against the Flood.

  • 09.06.2011 10:09 PM PDT

Man, everyone's really piling up on Old Salty27. >.>

Why are you guys taking this so personally? I disagree that Cryptum destroys the canon of previous material, but I'm not going to accuse him of not reading the book just because he didn't like it. :/ And what part of any of his previous posts makes you think he's trying to hate the book? It's okay that someone doesn't like something you enjoy, and we can debate things without resorting to personal attacks.

I guess I just didn't think this community was so aggressively defensive. :/

  • 09.06.2011 10:47 PM PDT


Posted by: GanonSmash
I disagree that Cryptum destroys the canon of previous material


It does not only destroy it, it spits on it...

  • 09.08.2011 8:29 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

I consider you a troll predkiller.

  • 09.08.2011 8:38 PM PDT

I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me.
--Ralph Ellison

Hating Cryptum because it "removes the mystery" of the Forerunners has to be the worst reason for hating it I've seen yet.

If you don't like Greg Bear's style of writing, fine, you don't like Cryptum. If for some reason you think it breaks canon because your canon was previously based on assumptions, fine, nitpick all you want; we all still know what the canon really is. But to say it's bad because it adds a backstory and helps explain the Terminals, where the Flood came from, how the Halo rings came to be, etc.? What a joke.

At least be man enough to admit that you really didn't like it because the words were too big for you to understand.

[Edited on 09.08.2011 9:20 PM PDT]

  • 09.08.2011 9:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Spartan 100
I consider you a troll predkiller.


I don't care what you consider me. What I find disturbing his how you immediately judge me as troll right off the bat because my views are opposite yours.

  • 09.08.2011 11:56 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
I loathed Cryptum, it completely goes against everything Bungie intended Halo to be. The Forerunners were supposed to be, what their name is, our Forerunners. Bungie intended Humanity to be the ancient evolutionary cousins of the Forerunners, not a completely different species. Its utterly ridiculous.
No more ridiculous than presuming to know what the Halo story "really" is and that Cryptum deviated from it.

  • 09.09.2011 12:02 AM PDT