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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo Cryptum sucks
  • Subject: Halo Cryptum sucks
Subject: Halo Cryptum sucks

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Xd00999
I don't know what parts of the story you should definitely ignore, but to me the inclusion of the Humans and Prophets seemed just like a cheap hook designed to help us connect the story to current events. They served no large purpose that couldn't have been filled with another, separate, Forerunner faction.
They are taboo because Halo was built around their mystery. We never knew who they were, what they looked like or what they did and that allowed our imaginations to run wild. In away, what we thought ourselves was better than any author could write. By stripping away the mystery that was such a central part of the story for so long you would expectedly get people who don't like the removal of one of the core tenets of the story.


When it comes to the Prophets, I see your point, but I think it was added on ironic grounds. They were allies, then become out worst enemies.

  • 09.09.2011 7:28 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
I don't know what parts of the story you should definitely ignore, but to me the inclusion of the Humans and Prophets seemed just like a cheap hook designed to help us connect the story to current events. They served no large purpose that couldn't have been filled with another, separate, Forerunner faction.
They are taboo because Halo was built around their mystery. We never knew who they were, what they looked like or what they did and that allowed our imaginations to run wild. In away, what we thought ourselves was better than any author could write. By stripping away the mystery that was such a central part of the story for so long you would expectedly get people who don't like the removal of one of the core tenets of the story.


When it comes to the Prophets, I see your point, but I think it was added on ironic grounds. They were allies, then become out worst enemies.

Bear could have easily done it the other way: have the forerunners hate humans in the past, be our allies in the future. The Prophets were so different in the story as well they are barely recognizable. They are described as sensual, -blam!-, young, and vigorous. They are almost a complete 180 from what they are now and I think that was a bad idea.

  • 09.09.2011 7:42 PM PDT

Eat, Sleep, Row


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
I don't know what parts of the story you should definitely ignore, but to me the inclusion of the Humans and Prophets seemed just like a cheap hook designed to help us connect the story to current events. They served no large purpose that couldn't have been filled with another, separate, Forerunner faction.
They are taboo because Halo was built around their mystery. We never knew who they were, what they looked like or what they did and that allowed our imaginations to run wild. In away, what we thought ourselves was better than any author could write. By stripping away the mystery that was such a central part of the story for so long you would expectedly get people who don't like the removal of one of the core tenets of the story.


When it comes to the Prophets, I see your point, but I think it was added on ironic grounds. They were allies, then become out worst enemies.

Bear could have easily done it the other way: have the forerunners hate humans in the past, be our allies in the future. The Prophets were so different in the story as well they are barely recognizable. They are described as sensual, -blam!-, young, and vigorous. They are almost a complete 180 from what they are now and I think that was a bad idea.

I'm not sure if it was a bad idea, but at least we got to see the transition from the young in charge to the old. By the end of the story they were pretty much how we knew them

  • 09.09.2011 7:44 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
I don't know what parts of the story you should definitely ignore, but to me the inclusion of the Humans and Prophets seemed just like a cheap hook designed to help us connect the story to current events. They served no large purpose that couldn't have been filled with another, separate, Forerunner faction.
They are taboo because Halo was built around their mystery. We never knew who they were, what they looked like or what they did and that allowed our imaginations to run wild. In away, what we thought ourselves was better than any author could write. By stripping away the mystery that was such a central part of the story for so long you would expectedly get people who don't like the removal of one of the core tenets of the story.


When it comes to the Prophets, I see your point, but I think it was added on ironic grounds. They were allies, then become out worst enemies.

Bear could have easily done it the other way: have the forerunners hate humans in the past, be our allies in the future. The Prophets were so different in the story as well they are barely recognizable. They are described as sensual, -blam!-, young, and vigorous. They are almost a complete 180 from what they are now and I think that was a bad idea.


To be fair, we've never really seen young Prophets. And that was even coming to an end, the culture started to focus on the elderly and paraplegics.

  • 09.09.2011 7:45 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: RECKLESS XLII

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
I don't know what parts of the story you should definitely ignore, but to me the inclusion of the Humans and Prophets seemed just like a cheap hook designed to help us connect the story to current events. They served no large purpose that couldn't have been filled with another, separate, Forerunner faction.
They are taboo because Halo was built around their mystery. We never knew who they were, what they looked like or what they did and that allowed our imaginations to run wild. In away, what we thought ourselves was better than any author could write. By stripping away the mystery that was such a central part of the story for so long you would expectedly get people who don't like the removal of one of the core tenets of the story.


When it comes to the Prophets, I see your point, but I think it was added on ironic grounds. They were allies, then become out worst enemies.

Bear could have easily done it the other way: have the forerunners hate humans in the past, be our allies in the future. The Prophets were so different in the story as well they are barely recognizable. They are described as sensual, -blam!-, young, and vigorous. They are almost a complete 180 from what they are now and I think that was a bad idea.

I'm not sure if it was a bad idea, but at least we got to see the transition from the young in charge to the old. By the end of the story they were pretty much how we knew them

And yet there is no time devoted to why that happens. All Bornstellar does is muse if all the leaders need to be paraplegic. There is nothing else that tells us why it happens. If you are going to make the Prophets so different you should explain why they are different and how they got to where they are today. If you just jump from A to B like this you get a disjointed narrative.

Edit: Contact Harvest actually tells us that young Prophets are just as fragile and decrepit as their elders.

[Edited on 09.09.2011 7:52 PM PDT]

  • 09.09.2011 7:49 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Xd00999
Edit: Contact Harvest actually tells us that young Prophets are just as fragile and decrepit as their elders.


I would probably chalk that up to natural evolution, or de-evolution as it seems.

  • 09.09.2011 7:53 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
Edit: Contact Harvest actually tells us that young Prophets are just as fragile and decrepit as their elders.


I would probably chalk that up to natural evolution, or de-evolution as it seems.

An evolutionary path that takes them in the exact opposite direction with no explanation given? Just because your leaders are doing it doesn't mean you should.

  • 09.09.2011 7:55 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
Edit: Contact Harvest actually tells us that young Prophets are just as fragile and decrepit as their elders.


I would probably chalk that up to natural evolution, or de-evolution as it seems.

An evolutionary path that takes them in the exact opposite direction with no explanation given? Just because your leaders are doing it doesn't mean you should.


Humans do what their leaders do all the time, even if it isn't in our best interests. That said, it's an alien culture, who really knows whats going through their heads.

  • 09.09.2011 7:58 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Looking at certain parts of canon, I'm beginning to think that everyone is, or was, holding an idiot ball or is very stupid. I will give reasons in my thread that I will make when I have enough time.

[Edited on 09.09.2011 8:02 PM PDT]

  • 09.09.2011 8:02 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Xd00999
Looking at certain parts of canon, I'm beginning to think that everyone is, or was, holding an idiot ball or is very stupid.


It happens in all sci-fi continuity. But honestly, an idiot ball is needed every now and then to get events rolling.

  • 09.09.2011 8:03 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
Looking at certain parts of canon, I'm beginning to think that everyone is, or was, holding an idiot ball or is very stupid.


It happens in all sci-fi continuity. But honestly, an idiot ball is needed every now and then to get events rolling.

This is a big idiot ball. As in a child could probably have seen the opportunity that everyone seems to have missed (a reasonably well developed child).

  • 09.09.2011 8:08 PM PDT

@JosephBiwald
View my Art

Per Audacia Ad Astra

Halo doesn't hold the key secrets to the Illuminati. I'm completely fine with Cryptum.
Posted by: ForeverAlone000
Why?
Because the forerunners are supposed to be a mystery in the Halo universe. Now we know too much... no mystery no fun!

Look at this -blam!-

I prefer them to be unknown thank you

  • 09.09.2011 8:39 PM PDT

Posted by: Mr Secksy Man
I can't let it go, I'm trying to talk to you but for some reason you can't hear me due to all those dicks in my mouth.

Ok well I'm late to the party but I feel like I should chip in because nobody else has said it yet in this thread:

I don't like Cryptum. No, not because it sheds light on the Forerunners.

I don't like Cryptum because it completely belittles the origin of the flood. I don't know about any of you, but I liked to think that the flood was already a powerful planet-devouring monstrosity before it was discovered. Cryptum turned it into some Planet of the Apes bull-blam!-. A powder for people to rub on their pets, really? -blam!- stupid, and completely unoriginal.

I also hated the idea that humanity was already a vast galactic power, and that the Forerunners knew about them already. The H3 terminals imply they had no idea the humans existed until just before they were going to fire the rings. They also implied that humans were deemed the heirs because they had the potential to become a galactic power greater than even their own. Now we find that they didn't think humans had the potential. Humans already were a galactic power greater than the Forerunners. It belittles every human accomplishment from then onward - The discovery of slipspace engines? Just retreading old achievements. Shields? Old hat. No human triumph is as great as it used to be because it'd ben done before.

It also doesn't make sense that the Forerunners would go to war with and attempt to exterminate the humans and then turn around and name the humans their heirs.

  • 09.18.2011 4:58 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Yeah...about your issue with the human part of Cryptum, you seem to miss a few things. We don't know why the Forerunners choose humanity as their Inheritors. We still have TWO books left in the trilogy. Refrain from saying it makes no sense we nobody has any idea what is coming next.

And you say humanities achievements mean nothing know because we already did them in the past. I don't know about you, but having our intergalactic empire reduced to nothing, watching our knowledge fade away and yet overcoming ii all and reclaiming our journey to the stars, without Forerunner help mind you, pretty amazing.

And as for the Flood, you say their origins are unoriginal. How so? Their origins prior to Cryptum were unoriginal, oh man a dangerous evil alien/parasite/robot/thing comes out of nowhere! That has been used in nearly every piece of sci-fi one way or another.

Sure, originating from a powder doesn't seem scary, but think about it. A lot of diseases nowadays come from odd places, look at bird flu or swine flu. They come from one place and spread. Yes, it shows amazing human ignorance to sprinkle that stuff on their pets. That said, once the Flood proper formed, the -blam!- hit the fan and spread. And yet we prevailed.

[Edited on 09.18.2011 11:53 AM PDT]

  • 09.18.2011 11:52 AM PDT

The OST for ODST!

I can see why some may not favor Cryptum; fans have had 10 years to imagine who the Forerunners were, and all of that has to be left at the door. Greg Bear takes the Forerunners in directions you wouldn't expect, which is one of the reasons I liked the book.

No matter how you feel about Cryptum and the veil on the Forerunners being lifted a bit, it's been said that these books will have strong ties with Halo 4, so this stuff is here to stay.

  • 09.18.2011 11:57 AM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
I don't know what parts of the story you should definitely ignore, but to me the inclusion of the Humans and Prophets seemed just like a cheap hook designed to help us connect the story to current events. They served no large purpose that couldn't have been filled with another, separate, Forerunner faction.
They are taboo because Halo was built around their mystery. We never knew who they were, what they looked like or what they did and that allowed our imaginations to run wild. In away, what we thought ourselves was better than any author could write. By stripping away the mystery that was such a central part of the story for so long you would expectedly get people who don't like the removal of one of the core tenets of the story.


When it comes to the Prophets, I see your point, but I think it was added on ironic grounds. They were allies, then become out worst enemies.

Bear could have easily done it the other way: have the forerunners hate humans in the past, be our allies in the future. The Prophets were so different in the story as well they are barely recognizable. They are described as sensual, -blam!-, young, and vigorous. They are almost a complete 180 from what they are now and I think that was a bad idea.


That is the point it was deliberately a 180 to show just how much the Prophets screwed up.

  • 09.18.2011 12:04 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Posted by: Deaths Friend22
You summed up all my grievances in that post, well done.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

I understand that was the intent, however the execution was horrible and felt ill-conceived to me as I expressed in my above posts.

  • 09.18.2011 2:05 PM PDT

Posted by: Mr Secksy Man
I can't let it go, I'm trying to talk to you but for some reason you can't hear me due to all those dicks in my mouth.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Yeah...about your issue with the human part of Cryptum, you seem to miss a few things. We don't know why the Forerunners choose humanity as their Inheritors. We still have TWO books left in the trilogy. Refrain from saying it makes no sense we nobody has any idea what is coming next.

You misunderstand what I'm trying to say. Nobody does a complete 180 from complete enemy to friend in such a short period of time. However Bear chooses to proceed from this point in time, it is going to feel rushed and cheesy. It's going to take some serious genius to pull that one off.

And you say humanities achievements mean nothing know because we already did them in the past. I don't know about you, but having our intergalactic empire reduced to nothing, watching our knowledge fade away and yet overcoming ii all and reclaiming our journey to the stars, without Forerunner help mind you, pretty amazing.
Sure. But did we regain all of that because humanity is great, or because it was as the forerunners intended? I don't think the Forerunners left humanity with nothing, as will probably be revealed in the next few books.

And as for the Flood, you say their origins are unoriginal. How so? Their origins prior to Cryptum were unoriginal, oh man a dangerous evil alien/parasite/robot/thing comes out of nowhere! That has been used in nearly every piece of sci-fi one way or another.

Sure, originating from a powder doesn't seem scary, but think about it. A lot of diseases nowadays come from odd places, look at bird flu or swine flu. They come from one place and spread. Yes, it shows amazing human ignorance to sprinkle that stuff on their pets. That said, once the Flood proper formed, the -blam!- hit the fan and spread. And yet we prevailed.


OK, but doesn't it seem like the Flood that we all saw as some great powerful force moving through the universe now looks a little silly? A disease that starts with animal experiment and then turns out to be malicious, killing everyone and everything in its path, and eventually mutating people into creatures that carry the disease?

Bear managed to double up on his cliches, because not only did this mysterious powder appear out of nowhere,it turns out to be a disease that kills much of humanity. so not only is it a ripoff of Alien, Predator, Lost in space, etc, it's also a ripoff of I am Legend, Planet of the Apes, 28 weeks later, etc. And it totally ruins the flood's mystique. That sucks.

  • 09.18.2011 4:08 PM PDT

I just didn't like the book overall. Plot, writing style, etc.

I love how The Flood got transmitted through space pets though. Turns them from this fearsome, extra-galactic species to evil cats.

  • 09.18.2011 5:16 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Deaths Friend22
You misunderstand what I'm trying to say. Nobody does a complete 180 from complete enemy to friend in such a short period of time. However Bear chooses to proceed from this point in time, it is going to feel rushed and cheesy. It's going to take some serious genius to pull that one off.


I don't really consider over 1,000 years to be a short time. And perhaps they don't make us Reclaimers to be nice. We stopped the Flood, we would be the best candidates to stop them again. And yeah, two books left, lots of time to nail this arc right.

Sure. But did we regain all of that because humanity is great, or because it was as the forerunners intended? I don't think the Forerunners left humanity with nothing, as will probably be revealed in the next few books.

The only thing on Earth Forerunner related is the Ark Portal, and that thing got buried long ago. The humanity that emerged post-Forerunner-Flood War was ignorant of the Forerunners. Since then humanity built themselves up from square one. Could the Librarian or some Lifeworker have imprinted a geas on our DNA? Maybe. That said, we were the ones who did the heavy lifting and even with this theoretical aid, it took hundreds of thousands of years to get into near-Earth orbit.


OK, but doesn't it seem like the Flood that we all saw as some great powerful force moving through the universe now looks a little silly? A disease that starts with animal experiment and then turns out to be malicious, killing everyone and everything in its path, and eventually mutating people into creatures that carry the disease?


Not really. Doctors have said that in the unlikely event of a zombie apocalypse, the virus would more than likely mutate from a non-human virus. Heck, H1N1 evolved from a swine virus and turned into a human one. If anything, it makes the Flood threat seem even more real and that make sit more terrifying.

Bear managed to double up on his cliches, because not only did this mysterious powder appear out of nowhere,it turns out to be a disease that kills much of humanity. so not only is it a ripoff of Alien, Predator, Lost in space, etc, it's also a ripoff of I am Legend, Planet of the Apes, 28 weeks later, etc. And it totally ruins the flood's mystique. That sucks.

How does it ruin their mystique? They are still a terrifying force. They are still infectious parasites. The Flood were ripping off other properties long before Bear came along.

  • 09.18.2011 5:25 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

Considering the fact that Forerunners can easily live for millenniums, I think 1000 years would be comparable to a decade or less in our time. Problems like that don't get fixed in a decade. It would be like USA destroyed the USSR back in the cold war, killed them down to the last few survivors barely worthy of the term "caveman" and then when USA got destroyed later that decade they decided to leave all their goodies to the remnants of the USSR.

Even so, it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm sure we would be sour if we controlled most of the galaxy and then had to crawl our way out of the primordial muck again. The whole thing belittles all our achievements. Some people called space flight our most significant breakthrough yet, little do they know our ancestors had it as our early morning commute.

I don't find H1N1 significant here. Yes it did evolve from animals but it was, comparatively, not very dangerous. If you are going to use any disease analogue you should use the Spanish Flu.

And the Flood are most definitely less terrifying. They went from Cthulhu-like beasts from the stars to over-glorified killer rabbits ("LOOK AT THE BONES!") with a skin disease. For creatures like the Flood, it is best if their origins remain unknown. The whole "coming from pets" origin story just knocked the Flood off my list of favorite villains.

  • 09.18.2011 6:36 PM PDT

Honestly, I'm still thinking about the new elements to the story that Cryptum has provided. They're taking this game to a wonderful place and all of you morons who are complaining about the Forerunners or the books can stay with Halo Reach because you're honestly not a fan. :-) Although I am having issues coping with the new changes and sudden rush of information, I like it. The Forerunners have been a mystery for far too long and aside from that, I think these books are a neccecity to go along with the Reclaimer Trilogy. Besides, we still have Precursors and we basically know nothing about them still.

[Edited on 09.30.2011 5:41 AM PDT]

  • 09.30.2011 5:36 AM PDT

You're being a cynical brat in all truth. They're keeping the story alive by adding new elements and new ideas to think upon and you're getting annoyed because they want to add more history to the Flood, reguardless of where they come from, THEY INHABIT YOUR BODY AND ARE BENT ON DESTRUCTION OF ALL SENTIENT LIFE. Their coming to be doesn't denounce from the fact that they enjoy genocide on a spatial campaign.

  • 09.30.2011 5:45 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Honestly I don't understand how the flood evolving from a powder belittles them at all.

Because they are no longer some cliche'd "MONSTER FROM ANOTHER UNIVERSE LOL," doesn't make them any less terrifying. They still evolved into the very enemies we fight in the original trilogy. They still destroyed entire planets easily.

We have been given hints that the Precursors created the Flood. We don't even know all of that powders background. For all we know the Precursors just took a flood parasite, turned it into a type of power, and then sent the jars on a ship towards humanity. We don't know.

This Cryptum hate just baffles me, because it was by far the most interesting book to read because it turns everything you thought you knew about the Halo Universe upside down. The thing is, Greg covered his tracks and made it so that there aren't retcons.

The very first page in the book tells us that everything we've known about Forerunners up until this point could be false.. Born says that the Forerunner story has been told so many different ways that he can hardly recognize it himself. What I'm sure he's referring to, is the terminals.

Immediately you're forced to ignore the terminals because for the first time, there's a possibility that they aren't fact. The story of Cryptum, Primordium, and the third book is the true Forerunner story. There are no conflictions with anything else.

Plus, there's still 2 books left with plenty of plot arcs to be explained.

  • 09.30.2011 6:18 AM PDT

Yay yuh!!!!!

im sorry but did anyone ask what you think?

  • 09.30.2011 8:34 AM PDT