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Subject: Anyone have a link to the Marathon Story?
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Okay then if you want me to support why Halo is the best then here you go.

Before Halo FPS's were mindless, and seemed absolutely pointless (James Bond) Even though, in Halo you do go around killing everything that moves, it has an interesting plot, missions that seem to actually have a point, and they're varied. Come on, how many other games (that have a plot) can you shoot baddies, while riding in a warthog? Not very many. How many games have a co-op system that works, and is fun. Not very many. Time Splitters 2 has co-op, but it's not very good. The truth is that they're NOT very many good FPS's out there. The stupid thing is that Time Splitters 2 is probably one of the best FPS's on the Xbox, and while it is good, it is definetly not a Halo.
Oh yeah, I have to add, Halo's absolutely AWESOME multiplayer. Some people were mad because it had no bots. But you know what? Other games that had bots sucked. Not saying that the bots made them suck, but mostly all of the FPS's multiplayer isn't very good. I'd have to say that one of the best multiplayer FPS's (besides Halo) is Call of Duty. That is a good game, but it's definetly not as good as Halo's.
Another thing that confuses me, is how you Marathon veterans talk about Halo's story. Many of you think the story is bad, and very "undeveloped", whatever the heck that means. How the heck can you say the story is bad? Not only is the story itself good, it's how they present it. How they have the cutscenes set up, the missions, the sound, the music, it just makes you care. You don't feel like, "Okay I'm playing some lame game that's trying to explain some stupid story to me" you feel like your the Master Chief destroying the Covie, and I really noticed this after I read the books.

Okay there you go. You said you wanted me to support it, so there.
___ _____
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|----------| / \ | | |
| | / \ | \ /
| | / \ |_______ \_____/

And I just want to say that took a really long time. (like 10 minutes, lol)

  • 09.10.2004 6:55 PM PDT
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Did you read the Halo books?

  • 09.10.2004 6:58 PM PDT
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What are your favorite genres in order? Here are mine......

1. FPS or I might as well say Halo
2. Action (could be a shooter 2 like Splinter Cell)
3. RPG (KoTOR was SUCH a great game, up there with my favs)
4. Extreme Sports (NOT regular sports, but extreme ones, like THPS or Street)
5. Racing (Project Gotham 2 is good, even though I don't play it very much)
6. Platformer (Once in a while there are some I like, but not many....)
7. Sports (Yep regular sports games at the bottom, I don't like em' very much, theyre boring. I like to use video games to sort of visit another world, not see one I could do in my back yard)

  • 09.10.2004 7:11 PM PDT
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Firstly no... I didn't read the books, but they doesn't have any relevance here as we're talking about gaming experience aren't we?

Ok. Once more your initial argument seems to have been focused to 2 sections which you failed to mention earlier... they are FPS games and Multiplayer options.

So here comes the deconstruction of things (and I thought I'd had enough of that in English this year).

Halo's story line is not very different to all the other FPS games that you say "suck". You're tough, aliens rock up, kill them. Wow, now thats an indepth story line. Now removing the sarcasm and exageration lets look closer.
You're the human races' ultimate weapon, well thats been done to death. Whats original and good is when you're not. Take Halflife for example, you're some random scientist guy and the only reason you survived is because of your suit. It's far better to play through a game knowing that your guy fully isn't capable of doing some things than playing as the pinnacle of genetic technology, able to flip cars with a single hand only to watch yourself get shot down by little nerdy things with pistols.
Background- Human race attacked by aliens. Also nothing new. About the only new part is that you're on a ship that ran away, but as far as my memory serves it fails to mention that in the game. Marathon had an uncertain past, you found yourself battling through the game in order to discover what was happening... far more interesting.
In Game Story- Fighty fighty fighty, lets save the captain, fighty fighty fighty, now lets gain control of the super weapon, fighty fighty fighty, oh dear we've been betrayed, fighty fighty fighty, oh dear they're taking over, fighty fighty fighty, captain is unable to avoid getting captured, fighty fighty fighty, lets run away now. Once again thats the bare basics, but there is only really one real plot twist in the game... that Halo will wipe out life. Sure there are other little shiny bits like with FoeHammer but they were all so obvious. You play the last level and it says "Wait here for extraction" I said "Oh der she's gonna die" and continued driving... and guess what happened? In Halflife and Marathon you actually spend the game coming to terms with what is happening around you. Scientists did crazy stuff, but it's goverment cover up, you save the day, but then you find out you really haven't, you've just given the opportunity for the feds to take control of another world finally finishing with your death or enlistment. Thats far better than obvious plot twists and finishing the game being sole survivor and floating away from the carnage saying "wow I just destroyed a world sized facility, aren't I tough?"

Now as far as missions go, varied isn't the word I would use. Basically they aer all hunter killer missions aimed at you reaching a certain point. This point can be a captain, an extraction point, the command deck of a ship... whatever, but thers nothing really different in any of the missions. You play Marathon, in most of the missions you go around pushing buttons to reach new places, activating devices etc... still the same idea, but there is a far wider ability to choose things. There are whole areas to explore that you generally needn't go to, where as you play halo and all the facilities just happen to be built so theres only one way through, or you travel along a canyon system so you can only go on the designated path. If you want different kinds of missions, play a seriously tactical game, like Rainbow Six or Ghost Recon, a game where you aren't a one man army and need to think about how to reach your objective, what to do, how to overcome your enemies etc.

Once again this addiction to Multiplayer comes up... The co-op in the aforementioned strategic FPS games is good adn even requires some team tactics, Brute Force co-op is pretty funny, Marathon was probly the first game ever to have co-op and thats fun too.

"All FPS multiplayer isn't good" Well need I recall the names of previously mentioned games, followed by a whole list of non-FPS games. Another good Multiplayer is the Jedi Knight series... they're heaps fun, albeit lacking the ability to slow time with speed, but still fun. Unreal Tournament is also a great multiplayer experience, and the bots in it rock as well... they have a variety of skill levels, you can set them to advance as you do, they also rapidly adapt to new weapons/levels and even game mods (oh the joys of Marathon:Rampancy on UT)

The only other point you came up with that I haven't mentioned is the shinyness of gameplay and some of the elements that are "unique".
Vehicles- whilst only Halo has the warthog (for obvious reasons) Red Faction had vehicles before it did, the newer Unreal games have them, Counterstrike (the original not the erleased version) had them... Hell JeepWars2K was one of the best maps.
Every new game on the market has cutscenes, music, cool sounds, good graphics... but that isn't what makes a good game, that should only add to it. If you just had those it'd be fun but just a gore fest with no purpose and you've already said you like purpose in a game.

The final point I think must be said is based around this quote from you. it's how they present it. How they have the cutscenes set up, the missions, the sound, the music, it just makes you care. You don't feel like, "Okay I'm playing some lame game that's trying to explain some stupid story to me" you feel like your the Master Chief destroying the Covie
That is the EASIEST was of positioning a gamer to accept the storyline, to add showy effects and movie like scenes. I know I sound a bit repetitive here but... Marathon didn't need them to put it's story across and put you in the SO's shoes... it was brilliantly written and put forward in it's own ogirinal and mysterious way. It put you far more in the main characters position than Halo ever did because all the thinking was up to you, you never watched him sit back and play ignorant while other people argued over things (see the cutscene at 2 betrayals... he has no idea whats going on cos he's an idiot... no offense but he is)

Now... that is my take on things... and once more, I do not hate the game, but when you put it across so forcefully I take the part of opposition quite seriously, just as ForceMorph or someone else may do.

I hope I have made sense,
Tristan ;-)

  • 09.10.2004 7:41 PM PDT
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1. RPG
2. Action/FPS
3. RTS
4+ is everything else cos basically I dislike everything else. No sports game extreme or otherwise appeals to me... unless it were to involve guns...

  • 09.10.2004 7:44 PM PDT
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Sorry but you haven't made any sense to me. Sure the main point of Halo is going around killing stuff, but isn't it the same in Marathon? Plus you obviously weren't paying very good attention to Halo because it WAS very original near the ending. Even you Marathon veterans have to admit that Halo's ending was pretty suprising. I'm sure you thought that Halo was used to destroy the whole universe, if anything you'd probably thought the Covies would use it against us, but obviously they didn't really know what the heck it was either. Oh yeah, and the books DO have to do with the gaming experience, because, well your only getting 1/3 of the story. In fact I thought a lot better about the plot once I read all of the Halo books. So before you start saying how much better Marathon's story is how about you actually read the whole story pal.

  • 09.10.2004 9:19 PM PDT
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yo Tristan, better is in the eye of the beholder. maybe i like playing solitaire over marathon. i mean, solitaire has an interesting story... it's about some cards that have been attacked by numbers and you have to put them back in order. i bought marathon for my macintrash and after 5 minutes of playing it i threw the game and the sorry mac in the trash. it was horrible. i went to the corner drug store and bought a pack of cards for solitaire... now THAT's a game.

~bob~

  • 09.10.2004 9:34 PM PDT
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Nicely put lookjerky!!

: )

  • 09.10.2004 9:42 PM PDT
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lookjerky, if you only played Marathon for 5 minutes you're missing
out. It took me a while find settings where I was comfortable and
get used to the gameplay. The game has extremely deep gameplay
wise if you stick with it. And if you haven't found the flamethrower or
the SPNKr yet, you haven't played Marathon. You'll have fun with
explodey BoBs too.

All I ask is that you give the game a fair chance before trashing it
again. After all, Bungie was kind enough to make it free for any
PC user.

  • 09.10.2004 10:11 PM PDT
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Halo is fun, and has an Okay story, but the story is just given away. There's no guessing, no wondering, no sleepless nights figuring out cryptic terminals. The books gave away the mystery of the Master chief, although the ship battles were cool.

  • 09.10.2004 11:23 PM PDT

Geez guys, I go out to play Halo with some friends and the thread explodes with posts.

The thing about comparing Halo and Marathon is that they are very similar games. Both have a great single player experience which stresses tactics and intellegence in defeating overwhelming odds rather than killing stronger and stronger enemies, leading up to a final boss. Both have a swift, deadly, and intense multiplayer experience which creates a great deal of friendly competition between friends. Both have immersive stories which are far more complex that their contemporaries.

However, at the current date and time, I believe that the Marathon series has an edge over Halo for a few reasons.

1. The Marathon story is complete, whereas Halo is still in the making. We know how the Marathon story ends and are able to step back and observe the whole picture. Halo may appear less detailed than it really is because all the facts are not in yet. I personally can't wait to see what secrets are revealed in Halo 2 and how the original Halo is affected by them.

2. Many of Halo's strengths were Marathon's strengths a decade ago. Most of Halo's intrinsic quantities were present in Marathon. A lone hero, created by man to be the ultimate killing machine, must fight off an insurmountable alien attack by himself. A fierce alien group composed of different species. A third party which appears midway through the game to complicate the battles. An energy weapon with a powerful charge up ability and a SPNKR rocket launcher. A few artificial intellegences, none of which are trustworthy. A seemingly hopeless battle to defend the human race. While Halo fans see these and say "Man, this is new and exciting. I've never seen anything like this!", Marathon fans say "Where have you all been, we have been playing this game for ten years, and it was better the first time around."

3. Marathon's fan base is now made of almost 100% hardcore fans who know the story and have been devoted to the game for 10 years. A good deal of Halo's fan base is still the people who incessantly fight over who is the best sniper and polute The Underground with Halo 2 posts.

Don't get me wrong, I love to play both games. I've played Marathon through to the end of Infinity, spent lots of time reading the Marathon story site, destroyed Halo numerous times, and read the Halo books.

I believe that the depth of Halo's story will become much clearer when Halo 2 comes out. When Bungie is satisfied with Halo, it will be an amazing, intertwined, and complex story, however I do not believe that it will usurp Marathon as the greatest Bungie (and greatest in general) computer game series of all time. In the end Halo will be great, but I do not think it will be better than Marathon.

[Edited on 9/11/2004 12:36:15 AM]

  • 09.11.2004 12:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: Agent91290
Sorry but you haven't made any sense to me. Sure the main point of Halo is going around killing stuff, but isn't it the same in Marathon? Plus you obviously weren't paying very good attention to Halo because it WAS very original near the ending. Even you Marathon veterans have to admit that Halo's ending was pretty suprising. Oh yeah, and the books DO have to do with the gaming experience, because, well your only getting 1/3 of the story. In fact I thought a lot better about the plot once I read all of the Halo books. So before you start saying how much better Marathon's story is how about you actually read the whole story pal.


Now, first, lets calm... Second, yes I tend to make very little sense but everything you've said I've already answered... so I'll take it one bit at a time.

"it WAS very original near the ending" Where? The old "big super weapon, destroy it and ride off into the sunset"? that is kinda old. There wasn't even a twist.

Sure, Marathon and Halo are about killing stuff, but theres a difference. To use examples-
Halo you play and a silver platter appears with a note saying "All that you need to know"
Marathon you play and a little note appears it reads "Go over there..." you find another note it says "Go over here..." you read another note "Go up there..." etc. and teh final note reads "Nahaha, and you thought we'd tell you everything"
That is the difference between stories.

Next, the books, yes they do continue the Halo story line and are related to the game BUT if you understood anything I said... they are [b]not[/i] part of the game. As such they are not in-game storyline, nor are they required reading before or after you play... therefore you cannot include them when talking about the game, they are a seperate issue. In fact you summed it up best-
your only getting 1/3 of the story.
The role of the ingame story is to tell you everything you need to know... Halo does that and gives you the absolute basics... a very dry storyline. Marathon gives you more than you ever could need with a story. Yes the books are there, but until they come in the games' case or pop up when I'm halfway through playing they are not part of the gaming experience.

So before you start saying how much better Marathon's story is how about you actually read the whole story pal.
So before you start telling me to go and buy stuff I don't want/need heed my words... Marathons story (we are talking in game) goes to the toilet all over Halo's.

Now, can we please keep it cool... you and others sound to be firing up over this, and we don't need that.

Tristan ;-)

Oh and that other guy whose name I don't currently remember, if solitaire really rocks your world that much, then I don't think your opinion is ever going to be considered in a conversation like this :P

  • 09.11.2004 12:31 AM PDT
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Just like Tristan said. Halo's story is laid out for you, there's no mystery (or at least not much.)

  • 09.11.2004 12:42 AM PDT

Something should be said for the fact that all of these Marathon fans are still here years after the entire series is over. The Marathon fans don't argue with the intention of annoying or flamming the newer Bungie fans or asserting that Halo is a poor game.

We all recognize that both games are great. However, after playing both (and I believe even after playing Halo 2 and/or finishing the Halo series) it will be seen that Marathon will remain the more sophistocated and thought-inducing series with a deeper, richer story and gaming experience.

[Edited on 9/11/2004 12:54:12 AM]

  • 09.11.2004 12:52 AM PDT
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The Marathon fans don't argue with the intention of annoying or flamming the newer Bungie fans or asserting that Halo is a poor game.

But when it comes to people claiming it's the best or asking why it isn't we try to pull the wool from your eyes and let you see the world around you. Theres lots of good stuff to be had out there, and you've just gotta realise that.

I am very sorry if I have upset or fired up anyone.
TRistan ;-)

  • 09.11.2004 1:08 AM PDT
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Wow that's funny, because I think about theories about what's happening in Halo 2

  • 09.11.2004 5:34 AM PDT
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Wow, no mystery? Oh, ok, I guess everyone knows what's going to happen in Halo 2.

Actually we don't. I happen to think about it a good amount of what's to come in Halo 2. Whos the Forerunner? Who made the Flood? How are they coming back? Is Sargeant Johnson infected? Are WE the forerunner? How did 343 Guilty Spark know what kind of armor the Master Chief had? Oh yeah I forgot to mention the suprises about the flood and Halo from the first game.

There is OBVIOUSLY many things that could happen in Halo 2.

  • 09.11.2004 5:37 AM PDT
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whatever. You'll still not making much sense. And like I said before I honestly don't think anyone knew what was going to happen in Halo's ending.

  • 09.11.2004 5:41 AM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
Need a ninja?
Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
Forum Rules.
FAQ.
I'm certifiable.

As Sardonic put it earlier, we need to remember that Halo's story is still in development. At the end of Marathon 1, things were pretty cut-and-dried as far as the story went. Congratulations! You won! You held off the aliens and saved the colony. Hardly Pulitzer Prize stuff at that stage, if you want to get all reductionist about it.

Things only get really involuted in Marathon 2. And then scary-boo involuted in Marathon Infinity.

Can we at least give Halo the same chance? If the storyline hasn't really advanced at the end of Halo 2, then we can start making meaningful statements that Marathon's storyline is superior. Until then I'm withholding judgement; you can't make a fair comparison between a completed work and an incomplete work.

-- Steve's wondering why so many folks invest so much of their self-worth into "my game can beat up your game" debates.

  • 09.11.2004 5:47 AM PDT
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omg, THANKYOU.

  • 09.11.2004 5:50 AM PDT
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Okay, anyway, I can't get the High Res Textures to work on Marathon. I downloaded them, but I can't seem to put them in. Well, I read the "read me" file, and I did what it told me, but when I played the graphics were still bad. Did anyone else download the High res textures, and got them to work, cause' I can't.

(Oh yeah, Gaara of Sand, I'm not doubting that Marathon has a better story, because I don't really care, but I'm just saying that if Marathon had first place in story Halo would be in second)

  • 09.11.2004 5:53 AM PDT
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You're getting very angry about this...

Personally... alot of these things you claim to keep you wondering I didn't even give a second thought to. In fact, upon completing the game I said, "well theres room for a sequel" then turned off the X-box and walked away. EDIT-(NOTE with Marathon, my 2 brothers and I stared at the screen and said "NOT FAIR!!! They didn't tell us enough... theres gotta be more levels here somewhere!!!!" and subsequently ordered the Trilogy pack the next day) :P

So I'm not going to continue this discussion because at the rate you're going you'll explode.

Steve, as I said before, I have nothing against Halo, but if people ask whats wrong I go full English deconstruction mode. Please don't bite my head off for trying to answer your questions....

Now I shall leave... feel free to ask me to return but I do so despise being flamed for doing what I am asked or made to do...
Tristan ;-)

[Edited on 9/11/2004 6:20:34 AM]

  • 09.11.2004 6:18 AM PDT
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Okay....I just started getting calm, and then you exploded

  • 09.11.2004 6:34 AM PDT
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I didn't explode... maybe I said something a bit dodgy... but that was lack of concentration... I was playing a game of chess, talking to three people over MSN and writing two other posts at the time. Sorry.
But like I said, if you want I can continue the discussion, but it would have to wait til tomorrow in any case. I need sleep now before the zombie syndrome really kicks in.
TRistan ;-)

  • 09.11.2004 6:50 AM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
Need a ninja?
Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
Forum Rules.
FAQ.
I'm certifiable.

Posted by: Gaara of Sand
Steve, as I said before, I have nothing against Halo, but if people ask whats wrong I go full English deconstruction mode. Please don't bite my head off for trying to answer your questions....

No flamage intended... if any was implied, it was entirely unintentional. I just found a flaw in the parallel, and thought that the best way to illustrate it was to mirror it. Looks like I should have waited until I'd finished my coffee first. :)

-- Steve must now trudge off to work. *sigh*, on a sunny day, and while the peregrines are flying not far from his balcony. There ain't no justice.

  • 09.11.2004 7:02 AM PDT

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