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Subject: Just How Effective Were/Are the Marines?

I'm really quite torn on this subject.

Really, how effective are the Marines against the Covenant in ground engagements?
We know the Marines have betters tactical smarts and more sense than the Covenant troops, but I just want this questions answered.

EDIT: I'm not speaking in terms of gameplay.

[Edited on 09.11.2011 2:29 PM PDT]

  • 09.11.2011 2:28 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Considering they won most ground engagements against the Covenant, I'd say they are pretty effective.

  • 09.11.2011 2:29 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Considering they won most ground engagements against the Covenant, I'd say they are pretty effective.


What I wanted to hear.

I have an odd fascination with the Marines of Halo, their armor, capability, and tactics.

  • 09.11.2011 2:33 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Considering they won most ground engagements against the Covenant, I'd say they are pretty effective.

This. The UNSC was just getting wrecked in space, ground engagements were in UNSC favour often.

Of course you don't see that side of the Marines in game.

  • 09.11.2011 2:42 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Considering they won most ground engagements against the Covenant, I'd say they are pretty effective.

This. The UNSC was just getting wrecked in space, ground engagements were in UNSC favour often.

Of course you don't see that side of the Marines in game.


The reason I'm confused is because of Legends and some other forms of Halo media depicting Marines always getting their asses handed to.

[Edited on 09.11.2011 4:09 PM PDT]

  • 09.11.2011 4:09 PM PDT


Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: dahuterschuter
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Considering they won most ground engagements against the Covenant, I'd say they are pretty effective.

This. The UNSC was just getting wrecked in space, ground engagements were in UNSC favour often.

Of course you don't see that side of the Marines in game.


The reason I'm confused is because of Legends and some other forms of Halo media depicting Marines always getting their asses handed to.


Individual fights found lots of dead Marines; overall, though, a mixture of Spartans and battle tactics found whole battles won. We won battles not wars; battles, not firefights.

  • 09.11.2011 4:16 PM PDT

An assassin will always carry on, even after death.

The Marines won most ground engagements, they were smarter and better organized than the Covenant.

  • 09.11.2011 4:50 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

It was never, ever stated that we won most ground engagements.

The line said we could hold our own, not that we were better.

  • 09.11.2011 4:53 PM PDT


Posted by: Makko Mace
It was never, ever stated that we won most ground engagements.

The line said we could hold our own, not that we were better.


Yeah, I've always wondered were every ones gets their "we won every ground battle" ideas from.

  • 09.11.2011 5:45 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

The line says that Spartans always won on the ground but they couldn't take that to the space and thus, there were just minor victories and great defeats.

  • 09.11.2011 5:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: RKOSNAKE
The line says that Spartans always won on the ground but they couldn't take that to the space and thus, there were just minor victories and great defeats.


every victory on the ground turned into defeat from above because the Covies would defeat the Naval detachment then glass the planet.

  • 09.11.2011 6:25 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

Yeah I'm sure it simply says UNSC could hold it's own on ground. I like how the novels expand on that explaining how Elites had a grudging respect for the Scorpion.

  • 09.11.2011 9:19 PM PDT

"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."

The UNSC Marine Corps, the finest men and women in the UNSCDF. Responsible for the defeat of Covenant Ground Forces during the Harvest Campaign, The liberation of Sigma Octamus IV, and the Victory at the Halos and the Ark. Their only biggest failure was in the Fall of Reach. If it weren't for these Marines, we would be losing even more worlds.

  • 09.11.2011 9:20 PM PDT


Posted by: greatestSheriff
The UNSC Marine Corps, the finest men and women in the UNSCDF. Responsible for the defeat of Covenant Ground Forces during the Harvest Campaign, The liberation of Sigma Octamus IV, and the Victory at the Halos and the Ark. Their only biggest failure was in the Fall of Reach. If it weren't for these Marines, we would be losing even more worlds.

when eweyrything else fails, they dont...

  • 09.11.2011 9:39 PM PDT


Posted by: greatestSheriff
The UNSC Marine Corps, the finest men and women in the UNSCDF. Responsible for the defeat of Covenant Ground Forces during the Harvest Campaign, The liberation of Sigma Octamus IV, and the Victory at the Halos and the Ark. Their only biggest failure was in the Fall of Reach. If it weren't for these Marines, we would be losing even more worlds.


How was Reach their biggest failure on the ground?

  • 09.11.2011 9:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: greatestSheriff
The UNSC Marine Corps, the finest men and women in the UNSCDF. Responsible for the defeat of Covenant Ground Forces during the Harvest Campaign, The liberation of Sigma Octamus IV, and the Victory at the Halos and the Ark. Their only biggest failure was in the Fall of Reach. If it weren't for these Marines, we would be losing even more worlds.


How was Reach their biggest failure on the ground?

It was the military nerve center of the UNSC, and they happened to have their glutius maximuses handed to them because the Covenant deployed en masse to recover the Forerunner temporal distortion artifact.

  • 09.13.2011 7:03 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Marines were very competent. They almost always won ground engagement, even when being heavily outnumbered. They suffered gruesome casualties on the ground, but they still managed to over come the Covenant most of the time.

If the Human - Covenant War were dependent on ground engagements, the UNSC would have been able to hold their ground pretty well.

And were not even talking about ODST's and Spartan's on ground fights...

  • 09.13.2011 7:17 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

The question was not about Spartans...

  • 09.13.2011 7:29 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX


Posted by: HipiO7
Marines were very competent. They almost always won ground engagement, even when being heavily outnumbered. They suffered gruesome casualties on the ground, but they still managed to over come the Covenant most of the time.

If the Human - Covenant War were dependent on ground engagements, the UNSC would have been able to hold their ground pretty well.

And were not even talking about ODST's and Spartan's on ground fights...


Nope. Where does it ever say the "almost always won ground engagements?

  • 09.13.2011 7:30 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Makko Mace
Posted by: HipiO7
Marines were very competent. They almost always won ground engagement, even when being heavily outnumbered. They suffered gruesome casualties on the ground, but they still managed to over come the Covenant most of the time.

If the Human - Covenant War were dependent on ground engagements, the UNSC would have been able to hold their ground pretty well.

And were not even talking about ODST's and Spartan's on ground fights...


Nope. Where does it ever say the "almost always won ground engagements?


It is common knowledge the UNSC won the majority of the ground engagements it had with the Covenant, at a high cost, though. Obviously as long as the Covenant ground forces did not have orbital support, the UNSC could outwit the Covenant.

And I know the question wasent about Spartan's nor ODST's. What I meant is that if the UNSC can win ground battles with marines, imagine how much easier it would go if they had large forces of ODST's and Spartan's. It was more of a hypothetical question that wasent supposed to be answered.

  • 09.13.2011 8:05 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

I was not aware we won the majority of ground battles, unless you have a source.

Also that "hold" your own statement included Spartans and ODSTs.


There really just isn't that much the marines can do against the superior tech and numbers. (Not that they didn't try)


Edit: though , if Covennant didn't get airsupport and the Marines were well supplied and the numbers were more or less even they could well win, how ever that was rarely the case.

[Edited on 09.13.2011 8:14 PM PDT]

  • 09.13.2011 8:12 PM PDT


Posted by: Makko Mace
I was not aware we won the majority of ground battles, unless you have a source.

Also that "hold" your own statement included Spartans and ODSTs.


There really just isn't that much the marines can do against the superior tech and numbers. (Not that they didn't try)


Except outwit the Covenant with superior tactical smarts. Larger numbers of Covenant on the ground only mean bigger guns and vehicles on the UNSC's counter to wipe them out.
Their plasma weapons may have deadly, sizzling bolts to shoot out, but those bolts are slow and avoidable. The only other things that are "superior" are the Elite's and Jackal's shields. But even then, those shields won't last long when they either pop, or when a bullet flies through the big notch.
The Marine's aren't idiots. The Covenant ground troops, rather, are. They're kind of like the noobs on LIVE that rush with the Assault Rifle.

  • 09.13.2011 8:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Makko Mace
Edit: though , if Covennant didn't get airsupport and the Marines were well supplied and the numbers were more or less even they could well win, how ever that was rarely the case.


Right, because the UNSC doesn't have air support, not counting their Longswords, Falcons, and Hornets. Only in space, is where the Covenant reign; aka the only place that mattered in this war.

  • 09.13.2011 8:21 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Makko Mace
I was not aware we won the majority of ground battles, unless you have a source.

Also that "hold" your own statement included Spartans and ODSTs.


There really just isn't that much the marines can do against the superior tech and numbers. (Not that they didn't try)


Edit: though , if Covennant didn't get airsupport and the Marines were well supplied and the numbers were more or less even they could well win, how ever that was rarely the case.


It is clearly stated in the novels that the UNSC, most of times, were outnumbered against the Covenant. They could win, but at a horrible cost. 5 marines and 1 scorpion vs 6 grunts 2 jackals 2 elites and 1 wraith, and the marines would win that fight. There probably be very few survivors, but I'm confident they could win.

I'm not talking about airsupport, but rather orbital support. If the Covenant have orbital support, they'll just orbital bombard the UNSC ground forces to hell. The UNSC being able to fight a purely ground battle was rare, but most of the time won them.

  • 09.13.2011 8:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: BlueRuby2k10

Posted by: Makko Mace
Edit: though , if Covennant didn't get airsupport and the Marines were well supplied and the numbers were more or less even they could well win, how ever that was rarely the case.


Right, because the UNSC doesn't have air support, not counting their Longswords, Falcons, and Hornets. Only in space, is where the Covenant reign; aka the only place that mattered in this war.


Technically the Covenant owned the ground as well then. Their cruisers could enter atmosphere undetected, or obliterate anything that would try to stop them.

As far as ground engagements go, Covenant always win simply because Human "Victories" come at high costs.

You lose a frigate, 6 tanks, and a detachment of marines; they lose a couple tanks, maybe a cruiser, and thousands of troops - all of which are quickly replaced.

[Edited on 09.13.2011 9:44 PM PDT]

  • 09.13.2011 9:43 PM PDT

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