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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why can't we talk about religion here?
  • Subject: Why can't we talk about religion here?
Subject: Why can't we talk about religion here?

:P

Foman is awesome!


Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
Posted by: TheEndIsNear NL
Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
I'm not saying it does. High Coin said that wars fought in the name of religion have had many casualties. JJAB claimed he was being hypocritical. I'm merely asking how many wars have been fought in the name of things opposite of religion [logic, reason, and science] that would assert that High Coin is a hypocrite.
Whether or not he is has no relevancy to this discussion.

I entirely disagree. If someone is going to call someone a hypocrite, they should have a legitimate reason.

Maybe its due to him calling out Theists of being aggressive and intolerant when he himself is.

  • 09.14.2011 1:59 PM PDT


Posted by: GruntGuy0007

Posted by: Carnage_A51
thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.

No rights are being violated.
First amendment, freedom of speech; you have heard of that, right?

  • 09.14.2011 2:00 PM PDT

Only the unloved and unnatural hate.

I have a skype! Feel free to add me if you took the time to look in here xD cody.dwight.morgan

Those threads do nothing but become name calling cesspools for trolls.

  • 09.14.2011 2:00 PM PDT


Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
Posted by: TheEndIsNear NL
Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
I'm not saying it does. High Coin said that wars fought in the name of religion have had many casualties. JJAB claimed he was being hypocritical. I'm merely asking how many wars have been fought in the name of things opposite of religion [logic, reason, and science] that would assert that High Coin is a hypocrite.
Whether or not he is has no relevancy to this discussion.

I entirely disagree. If someone is going to call someone a hypocrite, they should have a legitimate reason.

Maybe its due to him calling out Theists of being aggressive and intolerant when he himself is.

Since when was it intolerant to value logical, reasonable discussion over illogical and unreasonable?

  • 09.14.2011 2:01 PM PDT

Time flies like an arrow; fruits flies like a banana.


Posted by: Carnage_A51

Posted by: GruntGuy0007

Posted by: Carnage_A51
thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.

No rights are being violated.
First amendment, freedom of speech; you have heard of that, right?
Don't pull that card. The internet isn't america. You agreed, when making an account, that they would take away that freedom when you broke the rules.

  • 09.14.2011 2:01 PM PDT

~Only reply to posts with a question being asked, thats the only way I won't get banned~

Because people flame and that can be hurtful.

  • 09.14.2011 2:02 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

We can't (I am a member as well as a rule enforcer) because our hosts have asked us (and we agreed as a part of our membership agreement) not to discuss certain topics on the public forums.

That is the real and only reason that matters. The owners of this site don't want the topic discussed, they asked us nicely, and we all agreed to their conditions when we asked to become members. Breaking that agreement or trying to change the terms after agreeing is not likely to work (in the case of changing) or will result in enforcement of the two-party agreement (in the case of breaking the terms).

  • 09.14.2011 2:03 PM PDT

cockburnicus@live.com
New Flood

Posted by: Carnage_A51
Posted by: Cockburnicus
Posted by: Carnage_A51
Posted by: Cockburnicus
Because they always devolve into flame wars. No exceptions.

Posted by: Carnage_A51
4. Don't give me that Bungie quote that says "You have no rights", Bungie is a US based company. We do have rights.

Not so. It's their website, so they can set whatever rules they like and ban you for no reason should they wish to.
They STILL have to abide by rules themselves. What do you think would happen if they put dirty pictures of children on their site? They would go to jail.

They have rules they have to follow. Their rules do not come before the US governments rules(the country in which they formed).

OK. But let's say I own a house, you want to come into my house, I will only let you in my house if you promise not to talk about religion and sign an agreement that says the same. You talk about religion and I kick you out. What laws have I violated?
None, if it's your house. But, this is a PUBLIC place. Anyone can go to it. It's like a restaurant, because it's public they can't set forth such policies. Sure, they own the restaurant, but they're making it available to EVERYONE, thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.

This isn't a public place. And neither is a restaurant.

A restaurant can set forth such policies, they can set rules that go against free speech because it's their property. Try going into a restaurant and loudly trying to engage other customers in a discussion on religion, you'll be asked to leave. Restaurants often exclude people based on dress too, since usually restaurants don't care what you talk about but they do care about how presentable you are.

I expect that when I rock up to the Ritz in my T-shirt and tracksuit bottoms that I will be asked to leave and I expect than when I talk about religion on b.net that I will be asked to leave.

  • 09.14.2011 2:05 PM PDT

Vikki Blows <3

I don't believe there are really many rules on the internet, but I am unsure of that. Also this is Bungie's site, so they can run it however they would like to run it. As another reason, those who inhabit The Flood are, more often than not, trolls who just want to piss people off. It's bad business Bungie if their member's are constantly pissed off at one another for disrespecting each others' beliefs.

  • 09.14.2011 2:07 PM PDT


Posted by: TheEndIsNear NL

Posted by: Carnage_A51

Posted by: GruntGuy0007

Posted by: Carnage_A51
thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.

No rights are being violated.
First amendment, freedom of speech; you have heard of that, right?
Don't pull that card. The internet isn't america. You agreed, when making an account, that they would take away that freedom when you broke the rules.
Let me tell you about businesses(as a business owner), your business is governed by the laws in the state from which you created it. Bungie is located in Washington, they are governed by Washington's laws(which is also under the US constitution). Because of their companies location, if anyone was to bring them to court for ANY reason, the ruling would go along with the laws in Washington.

I'm pulling that card because it's true. There's a reason website owners can't just put anything on the internet they want(hince why a lot of sites get shut down and their owners go to jail)... It IS governed.

  • 09.14.2011 2:07 PM PDT

Dating Age

For those looking to vent, get proper advice, or give it to those in need.

We should be able to. I agree. I've said the same thing to moderators about politics.

If it's a flame baiting dumb thread then there will be a lock and ban. If it's something reasonable and thought provoking then there should be no problem.

  • 09.14.2011 2:09 PM PDT
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The US Government isn't allowed to censor speech. Private individuals and businesses are allowed to.

  • 09.14.2011 2:09 PM PDT

Time flies like an arrow; fruits flies like a banana.


Posted by: Carnage_A51

Posted by: TheEndIsNear NL

Posted by: Carnage_A51

Posted by: GruntGuy0007

Posted by: Carnage_A51
thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.

No rights are being violated.
First amendment, freedom of speech; you have heard of that, right?
Don't pull that card. The internet isn't america. You agreed, when making an account, that they would take away that freedom when you broke the rules.
Let me tell you about businesses(as a business owner), your business is governed by the laws in the state from which you created it. Bungie is located in Washington, they are governed by Washington's laws(which is also under the US constitution). Because of their companies location, if anyone was to bring them to court for ANY reason, the ruling would go along with the laws in Washington.

I'm pulling that card because it's true. There's a reason website owners can't just put anything on the internet they want(hince why a lot of sites get shut down and their owners go to jail)... It IS governed.
Valid point, but we still agreed to their EULA.

  • 09.14.2011 2:10 PM PDT

Sometimes I look up into the sky and wonder why I have no bananas.


Posted by: Carnage_A51

Posted by: Cockburnicus
Posted by: Carnage_A51
Posted by: Cockburnicus
Because they always devolve into flame wars. No exceptions.

Posted by: Carnage_A51
4. Don't give me that Bungie quote that says "You have no rights", Bungie is a US based company. We do have rights.

Not so. It's their website, so they can set whatever rules they like and ban you for no reason should they wish to.
They STILL have to abide by rules themselves. What do you think would happen if they put dirty pictures of children on their site? They would go to jail.

They have rules they have to follow. Their rules do not come before the US governments rules(the country in which they formed).

OK. But let's say I own a house, you want to come into my house, I will only let you in my house if you promise not to talk about religion and sign an agreement that says the same. You talk about religion and I kick you out. What laws have I violated?
None, if it's your house. But, this is a PUBLIC place. Anyone can go to it. It's like a restaurant, because it's public they can't set forth such policies. Sure, they own the restaurant, but they're making it available to EVERYONE, thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.


Actually, it's private place, anyone is free to enter IF they choose, thus having to follow the owners rules

  • 09.14.2011 2:14 PM PDT


Posted by: Carnage_A51

Posted by: TheEndIsNear NL

Posted by: Carnage_A51

Posted by: GruntGuy0007

Posted by: Carnage_A51
thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.

No rights are being violated.
First amendment, freedom of speech; you have heard of that, right?
Don't pull that card. The internet isn't america. You agreed, when making an account, that they would take away that freedom when you broke the rules.
Let me tell you about businesses(as a business owner), your business is governed by the laws in the state from which you created it. Bungie is located in Washington, they are governed by Washington's laws(which is also under the US constitution). Because of their companies location, if anyone was to bring them to court for ANY reason, the ruling would go along with the laws in Washington.

I'm pulling that card because it's true. There's a reason website owners can't just put anything on the internet they want(hince why a lot of sites get shut down and their owners go to jail)... It IS governed.
Think of Bungie.net as a house party, You break the rules you get kicked out. also PRIVATE companies make their own rules, E.G. I went to Grand Bend Motorplex (in Ontario) and they had their own set of rules that you had to follow, or get kicked out. The government's rules don't apply here

  • 09.14.2011 2:14 PM PDT


Posted by: Cockburnicus
Posted by: Carnage_A51
Posted by: Cockburnicus
Posted by: Carnage_A51
Posted by: Cockburnicus

Not so. It's their website, so they can set whatever rules they like and ban you for no reason should they wish to.
They STILL have to abide by rules themselves. What do you think would happen if they put dirty pictures of children on their site? They would go to jail.

They have rules they have to follow. Their rules do not come before the US governments rules(the country in which they formed).

OK. But let's say I own a house, you want to come into my house, I will only let you in my house if you promise not to talk about religion and sign an agreement that says the same. You talk about religion and I kick you out. What laws have I violated?
None, if it's your house. But, this is a PUBLIC place. Anyone can go to it. It's like a restaurant, because it's public they can't set forth such policies. Sure, they own the restaurant, but they're making it available to EVERYONE, thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.

This isn't a public place. And neither is a restaurant.

A restaurant can set forth such policies, they can set rules that go against free speech because it's their property. Try going into a restaurant and loudly trying to engage other customers in a discussion on religion, you'll be asked to leave. Restaurants often exclude people based on dress too, since usually restaurants don't care what you talk about but they do care about how presentable you are.

I expect that when I rock up to the Ritz in my T-shirt and tracksuit bottoms that I will be asked to leave and I expect than when I talk about religion on b.net that I will be asked to leave.
If someone came in harassing others(against the law) with religious debates, then sure. But if two people are having a conversation about religion peacefully and the restaurant owner walks by their table and hears it then tells them both to leave, you can bet that restaurant will get sued and be all over the news.

And, if you're wearing skimpy clothes, if certain areas are shown I could see why the would tell you to leave. But, if you were a part of a religion that you didn't wear clothes, it would be illegal for them to kick you out.

A good way companies get around these is to ASK someone to leave. If that person refuses, there's nothing that company owner can do if that person isn't breaking any laws or infringing on the rights of others. And, if they do, they can be sued.

  • 09.14.2011 2:16 PM PDT

Sometimes I look up into the sky and wonder why I have no bananas.

[quotePosted by: Cockburnicus
Posted by: Carnage_A51
Posted by: Cockburnicus
Posted by: Carnage_A51
Posted by: Cockburnicus
Because they always devolve into flame wars. No exceptions.

Posted by: Carnage_A51
4. Don't give me that Bungie quote that says "You have no rights", Bungie is a US based company. We do have rights.
[/quote]
Not so. It's their website, so they can set whatever rules they like and ban you for no reason should they wish to.
They STILL have to abide by rules themselves. What do you think would happen if they put dirty pictures of children on their site? They would go to jail.

They have rules they have to follow. Their rules do not come before the US governments rules(the country in which they formed).

OK. But let's say I own a house, you want to come into my house, I will only let you in my house if you promise not to talk about religion and sign an agreement that says the same. You talk about religion and I kick you out. What laws have I violated?
None, if it's your house. But, this is a PUBLIC place. Anyone can go to it. It's like a restaurant, because it's public they can't set forth such policies. Sure, they own the restaurant, but they're making it available to EVERYONE, thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.

This isn't a public place. And neither is a restaurant.

A restaurant can set forth such policies, they can set rules that go against free speech because it's their property. Try going into a restaurant and loudly trying to engage other customers in a discussion on religion, you'll be asked to leave. Restaurants often exclude people based on dress too, since usually restaurants don't care what you talk about but they do care about how presentable you are.

I expect that when I rock up to the Ritz in my T-shirt and tracksuit bottoms that I will be asked to leave and I expect than when I talk about religion on b.net that I will be asked to leave.


Relevant

  • 09.14.2011 2:16 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: Carnage_A51
Let me tell you about businesses(as a business owner), your business is governed by the laws in the state from which you created it. Bungie is located in Washington, they are governed by Washington's laws(which is also under the US constitution). Because of their companies location, if anyone was to bring them to court for ANY reason, the ruling would go along with the laws in Washington.

I'm pulling that card because it's true. There's a reason website owners can't just put anything on the internet they want(hince why a lot of sites get shut down and their owners go to jail)... It IS governed.

Negative ghostrider.

No business is allowed to break the law, but any business is empowered to enter into lawful contracts.

A US citizen's constitutional rights are limitations on actions that the government can impose on people in violation of those expressed rights. However, any citizen can enter into an agreement with another party and of their own free will, agree to limit their (for example) ability to express themselves. Every member here has done just that.

Freedom of speech does not mean "I can say what I want, where I want and I am protected from any restriction or consequence that I don't like". It means that when in public, you can express yourself freely, but there are still social and legal limits on how you express yourself or what you can say/do. But on private property where you have agreed to specific terms? You are bound by that contract and if the other party wants to enforce that agreement, you can't claim that they are abusing your rights. You agreed to the terms. If you didn't like them, you shouldn't have clicked on "okay".

  • 09.14.2011 2:19 PM PDT

:P

Foman is awesome!


Posted by: Maxwell_Murder

Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
Posted by: TheEndIsNear NL
Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
I'm not saying it does. High Coin said that wars fought in the name of religion have had many casualties. JJAB claimed he was being hypocritical. I'm merely asking how many wars have been fought in the name of things opposite of religion [logic, reason, and science] that would assert that High Coin is a hypocrite.
Whether or not he is has no relevancy to this discussion.

I entirely disagree. If someone is going to call someone a hypocrite, they should have a legitimate reason.

Maybe its due to him calling out Theists of being aggressive and intolerant when he himself is.

Since when was it intolerant to value logical, reasonable discussion over illogical and unreasonable?

Implying Theism is illogical and unreasonable.

  • 09.14.2011 2:19 PM PDT


Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
Since when was it intolerant to value logical, reasonable discussion over illogical and unreasonable?

Implying Theism is illogical and unreasonable.

Indeed I am. It is illogical to believe in something that cannot be proven to exist. It's also illogical to believe that stories that were handed down verbally from generation to generation, then translated through multiple languages, then edited by kings, would be anywhere near close to their original state. Religion is the world's longest game of Telephone.

  • 09.14.2011 2:21 PM PDT
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Because every time an atheist sees the word Christian, they have a complete fit and bash the person.

  • 09.14.2011 2:22 PM PDT