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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why can't we talk about religion here?
  • Subject: Why can't we talk about religion here?
Subject: Why can't we talk about religion here?
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: LogicalResponse
Posted by: Recon Number 54
We can't (I am a member as well as a rule enforcer) because our hosts have asked us (and we agreed as a part of our membership agreement) not to discuss certain topics on the public forums.

That is the real and only reason that matters. The owners of this site don't want the topic discussed, they asked us nicely, and we all agreed to their conditions when we asked to become members. Breaking that agreement or trying to change the terms after agreeing is not likely to work (in the case of changing) or will result in enforcement of the two-party agreement (in the case of breaking the terms).

so why then is this thread not locked?

Because it is a valid discussion.

It is in the wrong forum, but it is not violating any rules. If the discussion is ABOUT religion, then it would be. The topic is about DISCUSSING religion and/or religious matters. Those are not permitted.

As this is the wrong forum for the topic, standby for relocation.

  • 09.14.2011 2:22 PM PDT
Subject: Why can't we talk about religion here?

1. It doesn't infringe on the rights of others, people outside of these forums do it all the time and it is %100 legal.

2. It poses healthy debate and understanding of others beliefs.

3. Sure, people are going to disagree; that's part of the DISCUSSION!

4. Don't give me that Bungie quote that says "You have no rights", Bungie is a US based company with PUBLIC forums. Regardless of any Policy, Terms of Service, or Code of Conduct, we do have rights. When they make these terms and conditions they have to abide by the US constitution. Bungie's rules(considering Bungie is a US based company) don't override the US constitution. Saying you can't talk about religion is illegal.

And, this better not get locked or get me banned. I'm not posting my beliefs(even though I think I should be able to), I'm simply asking why we're not allowed.


[Edited on 09.14.2011 1:41 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 1:25 PM PDT


Posted by: LogicalResponse

Posted by: Recon Number 54
We can't (I am a member as well as a rule enforcer) because our hosts have asked us (and we agreed as a part of our membership agreement) not to discuss certain topics on the public forums.

That is the real and only reason that matters. The owners of this site don't want the topic discussed, they asked us nicely, and we all agreed to their conditions when we asked to become members. Breaking that agreement or trying to change the terms after agreeing is not likely to work (in the case of changing) or will result in enforcement of the two-party agreement (in the case of breaking the terms).

so why then is this thread not locked?


I would think that it's because this thread isn't about religion, it's about the rules.

And suddenly there I was in the Community Forum. Alone. Naked.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 2:24 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 2:23 PM PDT


Posted by: mr meowmeow

Posted by: Carnage_A51

Posted by: Cockburnicus
Posted by: Carnage_A51
Posted by: Cockburnicus
Not so. It's their website, so they can set whatever rules they like and ban you for no reason should they wish to.
They STILL have to abide by rules themselves. What do you think would happen if they put dirty pictures of children on their site? They would go to jail.

They have rules they have to follow. Their rules do not come before the US governments rules(the country in which they formed).

OK. But let's say I own a house, you want to come into my house, I will only let you in my house if you promise not to talk about religion and sign an agreement that says the same. You talk about religion and I kick you out. What laws have I violated?
None, if it's your house. But, this is a PUBLIC place. Anyone can go to it. It's like a restaurant, because it's public they can't set forth such policies. Sure, they own the restaurant, but they're making it available to EVERYONE, thus can not create rules that go against certain rights.

I do like your response though, it makes for good debate.


Actually, it's private place, anyone is free to enter IF they choose, thus having to follow the owners rules
But, doesn't it seem the rules would HAVE to go along with the constitution? The whole point is, is their policies even legally allowed? It's obvious they have them and you have to accept them. But, if you were to sign a contract to prostitute your body, would it be legal?

Of course I took that to the extreme, but I'm trying to make sense for you.

  • 09.14.2011 2:24 PM PDT

I like shorts. They're comfy and easy to wear.

Posted by: Slightly crazy
And suddenly there I was in the Community Forum. Alone. Naked.

I chortled.

Recon, you broke the thread!

[Edited on 09.14.2011 2:25 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 2:25 PM PDT
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This is the third thread I've seen moved in my 5 years here. Wow.

  • 09.14.2011 2:25 PM PDT
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I hate a lot of things but, art isn't one.


Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
Threads about atheism are locked here, too. How are atheists bigger hypocrites?


One of many I have seen in the last week or so

If I honestly felt like going back through all the topics I would sure as hell find plenty more.

To the guy who automatically pegs me as christian I have not once imposed my beliefs on anyone nor made fun of atheists for believing that we are bacteria or a impossible chance encounter with fate.

I once read that a scientist compared the universe to a deck of cards being randomly handed out like black jack at a casino table. There is only one problem. This man wouldn't even dream of relinquishing the simple fact that there needs to be a dealer to do so. i don't condemn or impose beliefs but if someone wants to discuss something that they think is right why deny them that. Your knowledge will become stagnant if you are intolerant to peoples thoughts and ideals. Atheists often make themselves out to be close minded by being intolerant.

  • 09.14.2011 2:25 PM PDT

Only the unloved and unnatural hate.

I have a skype! Feel free to add me if you took the time to look in here xD cody.dwight.morgan


Posted by: Sophisticated AI
Because every time an atheist sees the word Christian, they have a complete fit and bash the person.


No they don't.

Sure, there are some radical Atheists but you must admit there are some radical Christians too.

And your religion isn't the only one we can't talk about you know, so don't act like we're "persecuting just you".

  • 09.14.2011 2:28 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: Carnage_A51
But, doesn't it seem the rules would HAVE to go along with the constitution? The whole point is, is their policies even legally allowed? It's obvious they have them and you have to accept them. But, if you were to sign a contract to prostitute your body, would it be legal?

Of course I took that to the extreme, but I'm trying to make sense for you.

The US Constitution is a "here's how the government will be organized, here's how it will work, and while we're at it, here are some limits and restrictions on how it can/will operate". It has NOTHING to do with how private entities (individuals and corporations) are obligated or required to act.

Laws that are passed by the government can restrict or determine the limits of those private interactions, but the laws must comply with the constitution, the constitution does not impose limits, restrictions or any legal obligations onto the citizens, it gives the government its operating and organizations rules, but not the people.

  • 09.14.2011 2:29 PM PDT

The WorkPLace

Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
And Cobravert is absolutely correct.

Posted by: Der Todesengel
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and Cobra."
- Der

Posted by: nightspark
The US Government isn't allowed to censor speech.

That is not only not true, because they most certainly do, but a whole 'nother topic.

  • 09.14.2011 2:32 PM PDT

:P

Foman is awesome!


Posted by: Maxwell_Murder

Posted by: JJAB91

Posted by: Maxwell_Murder
Since when was it intolerant to value logical, reasonable discussion over illogical and unreasonable?

Implying Theism is illogical and unreasonable.

Indeed I am. It is illogical to believe in something that cannot be proven to exist. It's also illogical to believe that stories that were handed down verbally from generation to generation, then translated through multiple languages, then edited by kings, would be anywhere near close to their original state. Religion is the world's longest game of Telephone.

See OP? This is why we don't talk about Religion on The Flood.

  • 09.14.2011 2:32 PM PDT

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Because Religious and Political debates can get very heated and out of hand.

  • 09.14.2011 2:34 PM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything

It's too sensitive of a subject for many people.

  • 09.14.2011 2:35 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Fair Warning:

Those who insist on using this topic to discuss the validity/illogic of a particular (or any) theological belief will find themselves in "time out".

That is not the topic at hand. Please don't confuse my tolerance for relevant discussion as "not caring" about the rules that we all agreed to follow.

  • 09.14.2011 2:36 PM PDT


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Carnage_A51
But, doesn't it seem the rules would HAVE to go along with the constitution? The whole point is, is their policies even legally allowed? It's obvious they have them and you have to accept them. But, if you were to sign a contract to prostitute your body, would it be legal?

Of course I took that to the extreme, but I'm trying to make sense for you.

The US Constitution is a "here's how the government will be organized, here's how it will work, and while we're at it, here are some limits and restrictions on how it can/will operate". It has NOTHING to do with how private entities (individuals and corporations) are obligated or required to act.

Laws that are passed by the government can restrict or determine the limits of those private interactions, but the laws must comply with the constitution, the constitution does not impose limits, restrictions or any legal obligations onto the citizens, it gives the government its operating and organizations rules, but not the people.
If this is true, then there should be no law limiting freedom of speech. And, if that's the case, you shouldn't be able to create a Terms of Service, Code of Conduct, any other legal agreement that doesn't comply with the laws. Which I assume there is laws for freedom of speech(as in you can't just start yelling your ideas in people ears and harassing them, but if someone is willing to listen to you, there's no law saying they can't.).

That's like a cop walking up to two people in a restaurant(using this as a business example) talking about religion and arresting them even though they didn't harass each other or break any laws but was against that companies policies. They may ask them to leave, but chances are the people getting kicked out for talking about religion peacefully would win in court.

Then again, you may be right? That's why I made the thread.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 2:44 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 2:41 PM PDT

Recon, everything is out of order since you moved it. Can you fix it, or move it back so it will be in order an make sense. Right now it's all messed up. :/

[Edited on 09.14.2011 2:45 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 2:43 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: Carnage_A51
If this is true, then there should be no law limiting freedom of speech. And, if that's the case, you shouldn't be able to create a Terms of Service, Code of Conduct, any other legal agreement that doesn't comply with the laws. Which I assume there is laws for freedom of speech(as in you can't just start yelling your ideas in people ears and harassing them, but if someone is willing to listen to you, there's no law saying they can't.

That's like a cop walking up to two people in a restaurant(using this as a business example) talking about religion and arresting them even though they didn't harass each other or break any laws but was against that companies policies. They may ask them to leave, but chances are the people getting kicked out for talking about religion peacefully would win in court.

Then again, you may be right? That's why I made the thread.

But there are laws limiting freedom of speech. Libel and slander laws for example. Anti-fraud laws. Penalties for perjury. You can't yell "fire" in a theater (unless there really IS a fire). All of those laws place limits on public speech and are considered within the limits of the constitution.

Legal agreements (contracts) between two parties are (almost always) a matter of one or both parties agreeing to restrictions or conditions on their actions that may not be in their best interests, but they are agreeing to the terms because there is also a potential benefit.

This site is private property. It doesn't exists simply "because it's there". Someone owns it, and they can set any condition(s) they want (within certain legal limits) as to what can or can not happen on this site.

I really don't see how that is hard to understand. If you make a site of your own, you don't give out (unless you choose to) root admin access to it or let anyone who visits do whatever they want. It's your site. You have the right to determine how it is used by others and they have the right to choose to go elsewhere if they don't like your conditions.

  • 09.14.2011 2:48 PM PDT
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vanert says: Apparently he went to college with Stosh.
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Stosh went to college?
Posted by: stosh
I'm a college dropout.

OP isn't showing up for me in this thread...

  • 09.14.2011 2:53 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: Carnage_A51
Recon, everything is out of order since you moved it. Can you fix it, or move it back so it will be in order an make sense. Right now it's all messed up. :/

Sorry. It's a known and occasional bug that occurs when a topic is moved. Nothing that I can do to "fix" it.

Look on the bright side. If someone looks closely at the time stamps on this page, it appears that you "time traveled".

  • 09.14.2011 2:53 PM PDT

1 marriage request.

All teh cookies.

1 huggle.

This is an internet forum; with internet forum rules, so i don't see how the constitution comes into it at all.

Terms of service etc. are used by companies and fit with the law.

And, as already mentioned, we agreed to the rules by "signing" a contract with bungie when creating the account. Therefore we can't talk about the 'R' word without breaching said contract.
As in real life their are consequences for breaching contractual obligations (Bans).
OT: Do you honestly think that being able to talk about the R-word would promote the valuable discussion this site aims for?

  • 09.14.2011 2:55 PM PDT
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Think of it like school. You go into school one day, you see a teacher you hate. You walk up cuss them out. The school suspends you. Freedom of speech is limited there.

Just like when you sign up for a privately owned website, you agree to their rules, which happen to include no religious discussions (I think you can understand why they have this rule by looking at the last six pages that came from simply asking why you couldn't have the discussions). If you bring it up, they can kick you out for it, just like the school could kick you out for breaking their rules on no obscene language.

[Edited on 09.14.2011 2:57 PM PDT]

  • 09.14.2011 2:56 PM PDT


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Carnage_A51
If this is true, then there should be no law limiting freedom of speech. And, if that's the case, you shouldn't be able to create a Terms of Service, Code of Conduct, any other legal agreement that doesn't comply with the laws. Which I assume there is laws for freedom of speech(as in you can't just start yelling your ideas in people ears and harassing them, but if someone is willing to listen to you, there's no law saying they can't.

That's like a cop walking up to two people in a restaurant(using this as a business example) talking about religion and arresting them even though they didn't harass each other or break any laws but was against that companies policies. They may ask them to leave, but chances are the people getting kicked out for talking about religion peacefully would win in court.

Then again, you may be right? That's why I made the thread.

But there are laws limiting freedom of speech. Libel and slander laws for example. Anti-fraud laws. Penalties for perjury. You can't yell "fire" in a theater (unless there really IS a fire). All of those laws place limits on public speech and are considered within the limits of the constitution.

Legal agreements (contracts) between two parties are (almost always) a matter of one or both parties agreeing to restrictions or conditions on their actions that may not be in their best interests, but they are agreeing to the terms because there is also a potential benefit.

This site is private property. It doesn't exists simply "because it's there". Someone owns it, and they can set any condition(s) they want (within certain legal limits) as to what can or can not happen on this site.

I really don't see how that is hard to understand. If you make a site of your own, you don't give out (unless you choose to) root admin access to it or let anyone who visits do whatever they want. It's your site. You have the right to determine how it is used by others and they have the right to choose to go elsewhere if they don't like your conditions.
Very valid point, but if you're giving everyone in the world access to the site, is it still considered private? As in, are message boards where anyone can post AND see, private?

In accordance to what you and me said, I guess it all depends on the certain legal limits a company is allowed when creating the terms of service and what not.

  • 09.14.2011 3:03 PM PDT
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Because people can't handle talking about in a civilized manner.

  • 09.14.2011 3:05 PM PDT


Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Carnage_A51
Recon, everything is out of order since you moved it. Can you fix it, or move it back so it will be in order an make sense. Right now it's all messed up. :/

Sorry. It's a known and occasional bug that occurs when a topic is moved. Nothing that I can do to "fix" it.

Look on the bright side. If someone looks closely at the time stamps on this page, it appears that you "time traveled".
Sadface. :'(

  • 09.14.2011 3:06 PM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: Carnage_A51
Very valid point, but if you're giving everyone in the world access to the site, is it still considered private? As in, are message boards where anyone can post AND see, private?

In accordance to what you and me said, I guess it all depends on the certain legal limits a company is allowed when creating the terms of service and what not.

But this site DOESN'T "give everyone in the world access". It only gives access to those who agree to the terms and conditions of this site. If they then violate that agreement, they can be removed from the site, or a some lesser consequence.

Just try posting when you are not logged in and see how far your "free speech rights" get you.

  • 09.14.2011 3:07 PM PDT