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  • Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?
Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?

"I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith."

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Having just finished playing a few games of your gametype, I can give my opinion upon how it plays and whether I agree with your idea as a whole.

In my opinion the starting loadouts need to be tweaked in a couple ways:

First off, the Focus Rifle needs to be removed from the Recon Loadout, due to the fact it can easily overpower most enemies, from Skirmishers and Jackals to Brute Cheiftains and Elite Ultras. This takes away the challenging aspect of the gametype as well as making the smart AI redundant.

Secondly, the Grenade Launcher's loadout needs a different secondary weapon. On Legendary the AI don't really take much damage from the splash of the GL's grenade, and while I can understand that this is meant to be challenging, having AIs that never really group together and that take very little splash damage does take it a bit far. Having a pistol to support this somewhat underpowered weapon doesn't really justify the use of the GL. I can see where you have tried to balance this loadout, by giving it 3 grenades straight from the start and a Hologram in an attempt to group the AI together, but it doesn't really seem to work.
Now, on multiplayer the GL is a great support weapon, having one player draw the enemies into a line or group and having the GL wielder fire a few grenades into their masses is a great way to thin down an on masse assault from the AI. Also the GL's EMP abilities come in useful to the team when trying to get rid of the Wraith's that spawn. This would bring an actual reason behing using the GL, one of the many reasons why I think this would be a great Multiplayer experience.

Now moving onto the AI:

The AI in the gametype are really fun to fight, bringing a challenging, yet not overpowering feel to the Legendary campaign/firefight. The AI have been made considerably smarter than the standard Campaign ones, and actually employ flanking maneuvers upon the player as well as En Masse assaults. Rather than having bullet sponging, over shield wielding fools running at you, this gametype pulls off a good balance of AI smartness and shield strength.
Although, like all things, it is not quite perfect yet.

Final Opinion:

All in all, I think this gametype, is a good one, as it brings a more classical feel to the firefight/campaign experience as a whole, and while I never did actually beat a game of it, had I had a bit more patience and a bit more time, I would probably have been able to. Note that is a fault with my skill level, and not really the gametype.

As I said before, it seems like this gametype would be an incredibly fun experience with friends, as there a few support loadouts that can be used to fend off the increasing number of "Smart" AI. The support classes being the Sniper, the Shotgun and the GL.

Like all things, this gametype is not perfect yet, but the idea is a great one, and with a bit of tweaking will probably pull off a good attempt at "fun" Legendary level play.

I'm willing to bet I've left something out of this post, but I'm going to go ahead and post it anyway.

  • 09.18.2011 7:14 AM PDT
Subject: Playing Solo Sucks

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: Awx
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
I love playing FF by myself.

No lag, no stupidity, more kills, more cR, more fun.
Like I said, teamwork in FireFight is unnecessary. If you're playing with people you actually know, and you have to work together to win (and you only have one life), it makes it more challenging and more interesting. You know the ways to win but at the same time you can use your wits to outsmart the AI in any situation. That's how FireFight should be, but it isn't.

[Edited on 09.18.2011 7:19 AM PDT]

  • 09.18.2011 7:16 AM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

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Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Posted by: Awx
No lag, no stupidity, more kills, more cR, more fun.
Like I said, teamwork in FireFight is unnecessary. If you're playing with people you actually know, and you have to work together to win (and you only have one life), it makes it more challenging and more interesting. You know the ways to win but at the same time you can use your wits to outsmart the AI in any situation. That's how FireFight should be, but it isn't.
The connection is the biggest problem in my opinion. I haven't had an enjoyable multiplayer Firefight game without being the host (which may as well be synonymous for "I've never had an enjoyable multiplayer Firefight game.") It comes down to the networking models used. I can't tell you whether there is a decent alternative (unlike I know that dedicated servers would greatly improve the client server model used in the rest of MM), as I don't know really know anything about networking. What I do know is that you probably won't be able to have an 'acceptable' game outside of LAN (in which FF can be great fun - especially Versus Firefight).

  • 09.18.2011 7:59 AM PDT
Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?

Five years older and wiser
The fires are burning, I'm fire, never tire
Slay warriors in the forests, and on hire

I completely agree with this. And all I really play thats solo is x2 firefight because it's fun domination my foes. Though from reading these suggested changes I'm sure it will be more fun. I have downloaded the gametype and I'll play it tonight.

When playing on a more difficult setting the enemies should just be more smart/aggressive, whilst still having the same health and damage output.

So for example if a grunt was to shoot 1 plasma shot at a time on easy, on legendary they should shoot rapid bursts of 4 shots and the player would have to adjust to this.

I think ODST's Firefight went in the right direction by removing the battle rifle. That made you have to use more variety in weapons as the BR wasn't the "End-All" weapon to turn to. But it still suffered from increased enemy health/shields. Reach has the DMR which means you don't need to use variety really, I think it's more fun on x2 using an AR to dispatch elites. It would probably be more fun in general if it were possible in campaign etc. And also be more align with the books/cannon.

  • 09.19.2011 5:14 AM PDT

There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.

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Interesting idea, Tom. I hadn';t really put two and two together on why I enjoyed 2x Score attack so much. I've called it "playing Master Chief", which is exactly what you're trying to recreate. I have queued this for download and will try it later this morning.

  • 09.19.2011 6:35 AM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P

I always thought the AI in Halo: CE fit well with the gameplay, and even had human traits (such as the tendency to fire their plasma rifles into a players fallen body- the covenant equivalent of 'tea bagging'). While the AI had increased health and shield traits (minor), they were at the point where they were not at a difficultly to defeat, such that it was no longer fun (unlike Halo 2).

Reach I found also exhibited this problem. Leave the extremely high shield and health traits to skulls only, and not default gameplay, or at least change it at a slight level.

I also agree with the correlation between increased traits, and weapon usage and map movement. In firefight limited, I would tend to use a plasma pistol and DMR combo only, ruining my options to change things up and use different tactics- ergo making the experience a little less fun and more repetitive. Hopefully your gametype attempts to change this, even if it is slight.

  • 09.19.2011 7:24 AM PDT

She for whom time has spun

Absolutely agreed with the OP.

  • 09.19.2011 7:40 AM PDT

Two makes there more than speakers.

I still find fun in the Firefight Limited playlist. That is if any of my friends are on. Giving out roles, tactics, etc.

  • 09.19.2011 7:47 AM PDT

There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.

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OK, that was freakin' hard. I shouldn't have played with another player that I historically have bad connection with though.

  • 09.20.2011 5:47 AM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: Old Papa Rich
OK, that was freakin' hard. I shouldn't have played with another player that I historically have bad connection with though.
When you pull a k/d of 2.0 in Firefight "I told you so" doesn't really cut it ;)

I'm sure the average player could beat it with good tactics, but the difficulty is set above the average skill level and should be challenging for even the better players.

  • 09.20.2011 6:38 AM PDT

Everything is interesting if you go into it deeply enough.

Posted by: Tom T
Posted by: Old Papa Rich
OK, that was freakin' hard. I shouldn't have played with another player that I historically have bad connection with though.
When you pull a k/d of 2.0 in Firefight "I told you so" doesn't really cut it ;)
Sounds like an average game for Rich to me.

  • 09.20.2011 6:47 AM PDT

Five years older and wiser
The fires are burning, I'm fire, never tire
Slay warriors in the forests, and on hire

Posted by: Old Papa Rich
Interesting idea, Tom. I hadn';t really put two and two together on why I enjoyed 2x Score attack so much. I've called it "playing Master Chief", which is exactly what you're trying to recreate. I have queued this for download and will try it later this morning.

Playing Master Chief is the new name for x2 Firefight. All those who object will be banned.

  • 09.20.2011 2:11 PM PDT

There is no problem that cannot be solved with a shotgun, or a flamethrower, or a spartan laser, or a... you know what? Never mind.

China called.... OT: I don't play MM firefight, I play my own custom firefight mode that I find challenging.

  • 09.20.2011 2:12 PM PDT


Posted by: Tijenater
China called....

Not necessary, bro.

  • 09.20.2011 2:14 PM PDT
Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.
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Hmm, I'll try it next time I play Reach.

[Edited on 09.20.2011 2:27 PM PDT]

  • 09.20.2011 2:20 PM PDT

Remember Elk

The thing that made odst firefight so much more fun was that the brutes did not become invincible at the higher levels as elites do now. Some elites survive the might of the overloaded plasma with the right skulls on just making me have to stand aronud in one section just waiting for the chance to take out this defensive fortress that is in my way.
In other Halos you could push forward faster because yuo actually damaged your enemies.

  • 09.20.2011 2:29 PM PDT

I'm not blind, I have eyes in front of my head...

As a ginger your giant wall of orange does not frighten me.

OT: I wish the AI rushed at me like in Halo 1, in the other campaigns you can win by attrition you know just slowly PPing a single elite's shields down and headshotting him and running away, knowing they won't move to chase you. I would not have been able to clear the Covenant Cruiser command room in Reach if they would have chased me down the hall. Instead they fired on the drop shield I left behind every time assuming they'd get lucky eventually. In Halo 1, you had to demolish foes in a timely fashion lest you be overwhelmed and killed. It felt like you were truly a Spartan and had mastered the dance of death, leaving behind no survivors.

After that (in the following games) ... it always felt like you were a guy with fancy armor.

Holy crap I ranted too. Dammit.

[Edited on 09.20.2011 2:31 PM PDT]

  • 09.20.2011 2:30 PM PDT
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When the game is over, the king and pawn go into the same box

While not completely the same thing, CruelLEGACEY brought up a sort of similar point on another forum which is some what related. Read his post here.

I think at the base of the issue, is the learning cure and how it relates to difficulty. His example is a prime example. H:CE was a completely different game, base upon difficulty setting. Those that played on "easy' or "normal" never got an appreciation for the weapon palette, and the capabilities of each weapon. While this problem is not really present on harder levels, the player that plays on the lower difficulties misses out on that education.

The difficult part is maintaining that curve at even lower levels. It's a balancing nightmare. But, I think you've hit on something as far as the AI settings, and their aggression levels. If would be nice if the strength of opponents could be maintained, but their behavior modified at the lower levels. It would push the player to explore the weapon palette a bit more, while not completely punishing them. At higher difficulties, with the aggressiveness increased, it becomes more about strategy and how the player reacts.

  • 09.20.2011 2:54 PM PDT
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Cool and has been downloaded.

  • 09.20.2011 2:54 PM PDT

I've always played custom firefight with my brother.
He seems to enjoy my gametypes, challanging but fun.

My Typical Gametypes
- No shields/limited damage resistance
(if it's no shields then damage resistance is %300)
- Limited lives (to generate more 'survival' feeling)
- Useful armour abilities (no active camo, hologram)
- More Brutes (they often charge at you)
- No Jackals (their shields are annoying)
- The damage you deal is %200 (enemies won't be repitively boring)
- Mix of starting weapons (so you won't always have a pistol as a secondary weapons)
- Difficulty is Heroic or Legendary (AI will be smarter)
- Each set will become harder (through red, yellow and blue skulls)

This is how firefight should be

  • 09.20.2011 3:01 PM PDT

@spawn031

"So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories." John Williams

Nice title change Tom :)

Already read and downloaded your gametype. We should play it when you're on. I'll also come up with a better post later.

  • 09.20.2011 3:04 PM PDT

There is no problem that cannot be solved with a shotgun, or a flamethrower, or a spartan laser, or a... you know what? Never mind.


Posted by: Motav 13
As a ginger your giant wall of orange does not frighten me.


And I thought I was the only one.....

  • 09.20.2011 3:06 PM PDT
Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?

I'm sorry but china called..

  • 09.20.2011 3:09 PM PDT

These are not the informations you are looking for. Unless you're looking for my informations.

Check us out. Registration is not open, so please contact me or another member of the site if you would like to consider joining.

Read throughtout, thought you were sidetracking about Halo CE's campaign but then realized the thread is about both campaign and firefight. The third to last paragraph seemed to suggest to me that you want something in between FF Arcade and Limited. I don't know about the campaign, I joined Halo during H2 so I've always been more bias toward that then CE. Something like that can be up to personal opinion and how the person experienced it.

  • 09.20.2011 3:14 PM PDT