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  • Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?
Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?
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I realized the same thing at the end of winter contingency, and you made me realize why I liked ODST firefight more.
It took a break in regular pattern from the elites at the end, (they usually hide in the room where the last switch is, ending the mission)
This particular time however, they both immediately charged straight at me, sword Zealot taking the lead. This caught me off guard, and I had to fall back dramatically. Even though it caused me to die and lose my "Flawless Cowboy" for that run, I found that that moment was the most fun I had in the whole mission.
Knowing that the Elites have a section in their AI where they just charge straight at you, I wish this was implemented somehow. I like that it forces me to think on the spot, or be karate kicked in the face to my death.
Another element is that Firefight follows a particular pattern, leaving little variety in the enemies.
Such as score attack (and most other modes) go
Grunt-Jackal-Brute-Skirmisher-Elite Leader/Cheiftain/Hunter.
Can't it send in Jackals together with Skirmishers or Elites?
Jackals, unless quickly disposed of with a well placed grenade. Are more time-consuming to kill, and distract you. So if skirmishers spawned at the same time, this would add challenge, as they flank behind you and surround you.
Very simple but small AI elements could be changed. Though I understand that this might be more of a programming feat than we give credit for, I still think it's well within their abilities, and should be done.

  • 09.20.2011 3:22 PM PDT
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I disagree.

Vag entry is much more enjoyable than anaI entry.

  • 09.20.2011 3:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: Tom T
When you pull a k/d of 2.0 in Firefight "I told you so" doesn't really cut it ;)
IT WAS THE LAG!!!

  • 09.20.2011 4:56 PM PDT
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Ninja in the Reach forum?


They DO EXIST!

  • 09.20.2011 4:58 PM PDT
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"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

-2 Timothy 4:7


Posted by: Tom T
Posted by: Old Papa Rich
OK, that was freakin' hard. I shouldn't have played with another player that I historically have bad connection with though.
When you pull a k/d of 2.0 in Firefight "I told you so" doesn't really cut it ;)

I'm sure the average player could beat it with good tactics, but the difficulty is set above the average skill level and should be challenging for even the better players.

lol

Mine is 85 :P

:D

  • 09.20.2011 5:45 PM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

Hey.

Posted by: NicodemusTNT
Yes

  • 09.20.2011 5:47 PM PDT
Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.


Posted by: Tom T
The levels are well designed

I'm sorry, but I stopped right there.

The FF levels are terribly designed. There's virtually no way to strategically play FF on most of the maps. Choke points are virtually non existent, which in my opinion, is the essence of what makes FF enjoyable.

  • 09.20.2011 5:47 PM PDT

R.I.P. ODST Firefight. The best thing since sliced bread :(

  • 09.20.2011 5:47 PM PDT
Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?

iPhone 4S 64GB Black.

ODST firefight was the best because of the maps. Reach's firefight maps are just a joke except for the ones 343i are making (Unearthed (released (Defiant map pack)))
And the new installation 04.

  • 09.20.2011 6:06 PM PDT
Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

If we are to ignore the dynamics from most previous games and their gameplay and focus only on fire fight I think there is a very clear difference between the mechanics of the gametype from ODST to Reach, that being a premium being placed on allowing players online a higher level of survivability. This was taken to a point that we were given unlimited lives and overpowered weapons and AAs in things like Arcade fight.

Even the supposedly long lasting survival mode of Firefight Limited isn't much of a test. The fun of the original Firefight in my opinion was being able to try and last as long as you possibly can against enemies who are constantly attempting to assault a position that you are trying to defend. In the Reach iteration of Firefight it has turned into a seek and destroy game where the player has little fear of reprisal from the enemies.

I have yet to play your new gametype but I will download it and test it out. I doubt however that it will be able to recreate that feeling of defense and survival that was present in the ODST version of Firefight. Of course this is not to say that your gametype won't be fun.

Disclaimer: I really do enjoy Firefight in Reach it just isn't the same type of game that it was in ODST.

[Edited on 09.20.2011 6:41 PM PDT]

  • 09.20.2011 6:40 PM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: CPSDIABLO
Posted by: Tom T
The levels are well designed
I'm sorry, but I stopped right there.

The FF levels are terribly designed. There's virtually no way to strategically play FF on most of the maps. Choke points are virtually non existent, which in my opinion, is the essence of what makes FF enjoyable.
The Firefight maps are a mixed bag; I wouldn't say all of them are terrible. Courtyard, Glacier, Holdout, Overlook and Waterfront all play well (although Waterfront only really works when playing solo with increased movement speed as it lacks any choke points and Glacier is let down slightly by the AI, that tends to linger at the front of the base without advancing). The DLC map, Unearthed, is also very good.

[Edited on 10.03.2011 3:15 AM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 11:22 AM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: TH3_AV3NG3R
What house has a rocket pod, has legs, and has a long narrow barrel that probably shoots something powerful?

Sounds like you're describing the lower half of my body, actually.

*clap* *clap* good post Tom. I wish you made this during when Jeremiah was still the playlist manager we would have possibly seen your firefight gametype in matchmaking. I haven't played it yet but can't wait. Also, because of the infinite lives and other things like that, that makes the game easier. I started to play Limited instead.

I also wish they let us change the warthog to another warthog that had a different weapon on the back.

Edit: I just played it and oh god this level of intelligence that the AI has I have never seen before. This is awesome they all act more strategic and charge you in groups. I need people to play this with because playing this alone you are pretty much giving yourself the death sentence.

[Edited on 09.21.2011 12:15 PM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 11:38 AM PDT
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  • Intrepid Legendary Member

When the game is over, the king and pawn go into the same box

I really do miss some of the maps from ODST. And Vehicles.

  • 09.21.2011 11:42 AM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: Coux73
I really do miss some of the maps from ODST. And Vehicles.
I'll make this quick as my laptop has 3 mins left and I am in an Internet Cafe. A Lost Platoon styled map is definitely missing. I imagine 343 will release another map pack between the release of CEA and Halo 4. I would love an AoTCR themed map to fill the vehicle niche, with the ability to banshee hijack.

[Edited on 09.21.2011 11:45 AM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 11:45 AM PDT

I agree with your points. My firefight settings are very similar to yours, except with the ridiculous settings, like unlimited equipment. I explored with eagle eye and sharp, but damn are those skirmishers good. My 3 FF gametypes come in 3 flavors: Hard, Mild, Easy. Check out my fileshare... *shameless plug over*

  • 09.21.2011 11:54 AM PDT

Specialty : Sniping.

There never was a good knife made of bad steel.
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In the topic of Elites chasing you or not, I've noticed that only the Ultras/Zealots do this. Except, they have 24725x shields lol.

But those Ultras especially will chase you til the end of time, even if you're on a Warthog. I downloaded the FF file and will be trying it out with a friend later on. Whole-heartedly agree with the OP's points. While my kpd in MP is above a 2.0, FF with competent friends is my favorite thing to do in Halo, it's all I've ever wanted since Halo 1 almost ten years ago..

An observation I made years ago while playing CE was that on Legendary, it's not that the Elites had a lot of shields, their shields were just about the same, perhaps a bit more than Heroic[still do-able with AR's and the like], but that your damage output was slightly lowered, and for some reason, that worked. I tested it by shooting at my split screen buddy on easy vs shooting him on legendary with the magnum in the same spot. A difference in difficulty yielded different results of damage on your shields.

  • 09.21.2011 12:03 PM PDT
Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz

I disagree. Have a go at customising Firefight to enemies you enjoy killing. And of course, grab some buddies to play with and drive around in a Hog. That makes Firefight feel a lot more story-like.

  • 09.21.2011 12:09 PM PDT
Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.
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Posted by: Tom T
Disclaimer: I am not liable for any impact this wall of orange may have on your eyesight.

MY EYES! THEY BURN!

I made a similar complaint about the lack of real intelligence in the AI and how it kills the experience. Ramping up the difficulty only ramps up the damage they deal and the damage they take, turning the shooter into a game of peek-a-boo while you dump ammo into bullet sponges.

For games such as Bulletstorm and Warhammer 40k: SPESS MAHREEN this actively kills the experience that they were trying to tailor: You can't wade into battle getting creative kills or being an unstoppable juggernaught and avatar of death.

In my mind damage should be set and then left there. Increasing the difficulty increases the AI. On Easy it would be like 4x Score Attack with bottomless clip 1SK DMRs against nothing but Grunts. On Legendary the AI would use tactics for their archtype. In tandem. Brutes would bum rush your position while Skirmishers would flank you. At the same time.

In the past coding AI almost doesn't seem worth it. It's a huge time investment for very little gain. But with the rise in popularity of survival modes, having better AI gains more importance.

Another frustration that I have with FF in particular: There is always one squad of enemies that magically knows your exact position and is actively moving to hunt you down. It kills my ability to be a sneaky bastard and assassinate.

Also: Downloaded. Will play soon.

[Edited on 09.21.2011 12:40 PM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 12:35 PM PDT
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I played this the other day, My god I need to be more careful with my lives. I'd much rather play that than the other FF gametypes, Much more fun!

  • 09.23.2011 10:21 AM PDT

LW45 TS40 TO40 TSW35 TSN35 TT30 SB30 MLG25

Having quite recently played through Halo CE and Halo 2 on Legendary for the first time in a very long time, I will say that your Campaign analysis is very accurate. Halo 2 was far more frustrating than CE simply because it just wasn't fair; the difficulty was a result of the AI's 'unmatchable' attributes. Whilst I flew through the second game in a relatively short time, I still hold that it is the harder of the two. I believe you're right in saying that much of the difficulty comes from the speed with which it increases, though I do feel it reaches a level above that of CE (which, we shouldn't forget, was made much easier once you got to grips with the opponents' weaknesses). Of course, the point here is that whilst Halo 2 may have been harder, it wasn't 'good' harder - it was just more unfair.

[Edited on 09.23.2011 10:41 AM PDT]

  • 09.23.2011 10:39 AM PDT
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"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

-2 Timothy 4:7


Posted by: Tom T
Posted by: Coux73
I really do miss some of the maps from ODST. And Vehicles.
I'll make this quick as my laptop has 3 mins left and I am in an Internet Cafe. A Lost Platoon styled map is definitely missing. I imagine 343 will release another map pack between the release of CEA and Halo 4. I would love an AoTCR themed map to fill the vehicle niche, with the ability to banshee hijack.

I remember Frankie stating that Unearthed was supposed to replicate that nostalgic feeling that Lost Platoon left over.

You don't like Unearthed?

[Edited on 09.23.2011 10:53 AM PDT]

  • 09.23.2011 10:52 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

I played your FireFight pro gametype. It seems damn near perfect as far as the AI go, but the loadouts could use some work. I don't think the Focus Rifle is a good idea to be on there, it makes it just a little too easy.

I really wish I could try this gametype without bloom, I think then it really would be perfect.

  • 09.23.2011 11:26 AM PDT

We believe that the universe is unbounded: this is not the same as infinite: the 2-D surface of a sphere, wrapped around a 3rd dimension, has a finite size, but has no end. If you start off in a given direction on the surface of a sphere, you could return to your start point without having to turn around -- you simply go all the way around. But wouldn't that mean the universe has an escape velocity like the earth?


Posted by: MegaMuffin16
I played your FireFight pro gametype. It seems damn near perfect as far as the AI go, but the loadouts could use some work. I don't think the Focus Rifle is a good idea to be on there, it makes it just a little too easy.

I really wish I could try this gametype without bloom, I think then it really would be perfect.


At this point, I want XBL just to produce a reasonable review. Damn earthquakes making me drive 5k to get an XBL 12 mth card just to play this so far well-executed Firefight make. Not to be an old man, but I miss the old days, when a kill was a celebration. As time has gone on, its felt so easy to murder your opponent, that to relive a moment where you jump on your chair and shout in celebration would be a distant memory and an extinct concept of the past. Same goes for Campaign. The players as well, I tire of children laughing at me because they quickscoped like a scrub and thought it was awesome.

~B2

[Edited on 09.24.2011 3:58 AM PDT]

  • 09.24.2011 3:55 AM PDT
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I agree that the AI have problems. Unfortunately, the only things we can do for the Campaign is either adapt and come up with tactics to nullify their cheapness or play on a lower difficulty (although this robs us of a challenge). There's also skulls, but most of them just give the enemy AI more advantages.

Posted by: SS Halo
But those Ultras especially will chase you til the end of time, even if you're on a Warthog.
Not if you retreat into the water (on LNoS). Covies will never shoot at you if you're underwater. And even if the Elites do charge, they won't shoot unless you're above water. The only thing you need to watch out for while submerged is Wraith mortars and plasma grenades.

Posted by: Methew
Another frustration that I have with FF in particular: There is always one squad of enemies that magically knows your exact position and is actively moving to hunt you down. It kills my ability to be a sneaky bastard and assassinate.
I know exactly what you mean.

  • 09.24.2011 6:59 AM PDT