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  • Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.
Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.

If this is the state of my art, then I secede.

I have never been a fan of firefight because it was so boring. I couldn't bear playing score attack for hours upon hours, which is the average Halo Reach player's regime. If this actually accentuates the AI's brutality, I'm very excited to try this game type.

Tom, you did what all of us wanted but were too lazy to actually figure out.

[Edited on 09.27.2011 9:24 AM PDT]

  • 09.27.2011 9:23 AM PDT

Okay, listen, we should get our stories straight, all right? If anyone asks, and no one's gonna ask, don't worry, but if anyone asks, tell them as far as you know, the last time you checked, everyone looked pretty much alive, all right? Not dead.

My Stats And Armor

Firefight Forever!

  • 09.29.2011 2:30 PM PDT

Trying this when I get home. Looks promising.

  • 09.29.2011 2:32 PM PDT
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Click the Link to find out more about myself. Click Here

READ FIRST PLEASE! Please stop sending me Group invitations, it's not that I don't appreciate it it's just not going to work out for me considering the variables, Time zone differences, Mentality, motivation etc, Thank you for your consideration, Rtma Eros Paragon out.

Anybody like to try my Firefight Game-types? Here.

  • 09.29.2011 3:25 PM PDT

I really enjoy Mythic FF Limited. Takes a good team with variation in weapons to get through the sets. A slight increase in commendations for the more difficult game types would be nice though...

  • 09.29.2011 4:02 PM PDT
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It's Hazard Time

I got to say I agree fully with you and I can't wait to try your gamemode :)
Bullet sponges makes for bad gameplay, endless hordes or charging enemies makes for epic battles (literary) :)

  • 09.29.2011 4:19 PM PDT

What a hipster.

Posted by: Tom T
For a time I couldn't put my finger on the reason I enjoy the Campaign of CE more than its sequels. However here I believe I have finally found the answer. Simply put, strong [or 'unfair'] enemies are not only a pain in the ass to fight, they are boring.
I completely agree. I would rather be pitted up against 100 weak enemies [grunts] rather then 10 extraordinarily hard one. Ever wonder why Gruntpocalypse is so popular, the simple fact is more/weaker enemies make you feel like more of a bad-ass.

I feel like most games have a decent balance. Hordes of weak enemies, then a boss. The boos is to show some struggle in the game, and to see if you've actually picked up anything since the beginning. Developers can't have a newbie with no prior experience beating their game. It defeats the purpose of re-use.

  • 10.01.2011 2:25 PM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: Commander GX
Posted by: Tom T
For a time I couldn't put my finger on the reason I enjoy the Campaign of CE more than its sequels. However here I believe I have finally found the answer. Simply put, strong [or 'unfair'] enemies are not only a pain in the ass to fight, they are boring.
I completely agree. I would rather be pitted up against 100 weak enemies [grunts] rather then 10 extraordinarily hard one. Ever wonder why Gruntpocalypse is so popular, the simple fact is more/weaker enemies make you feel like more of a bad-ass.

I feel like most games have a decent balance. Hordes of weak enemies, then a boss. The boos is to show some struggle in the game, and to see if you've actually picked up anything since the beginning. Developers can't have a newbie with no prior experience beating their game. It defeats the purpose of re-use.
Grunts and jackals are appropriately weak and Hunters are appropriately strong, but neither extremity is particularly fun in my opinion (I very much doubt anyone would play Gruntpocalypse for long if it weren't for the payout).

Middle ground, a sweet spot so often lacking in FPS games, is key and complements both ends of the spectrum. In Halo this comes in the form of the Elites, who define the campaign experience because their technical capabilities are identical to the player (rather than being tediously below or frustratingly above).

Elites only really differ in their intelligence, weapon selection and marksmanship, therefore a skilled and experienced player can best opponents that are otherwise their equals. Therein lies the fun as players are rewarded for their mastery of the game's mechanics and environment.

Or so it should be. In a bread pudding the custard can be delicious but it is fragile and can easily dry, curdle and turn carcinogenic.

Should you be custardless, what I mean to say is that the more the 'middle class' gravitates away from the player, the more diluted the fun becomes.

[Edited on 10.01.2011 4:47 PM PDT]

  • 10.01.2011 4:46 PM PDT
Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?

Nahman Jayden, Eff bee eye. I herd that you're the origammy killah...

simple solution, make the A.I as agressive as a pissed off hornets nest. Combine that with ODST style firefight, and BAM! you got hell awaiting your arrival.

  • 10.01.2011 4:51 PM PDT
Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.

What a hipster.

Posted by: Tom T
Posted by: Commander GX
Posted by: Tom T
For a time I couldn't put my finger on the reason I enjoy the Campaign of CE more than its sequels. However here I believe I have finally found the answer. Simply put, strong [or 'unfair'] enemies are not only a pain in the ass to fight, they are boring.
I completely agree. I would rather be pitted up against 100 weak enemies [grunts] rather then 10 extraordinarily hard one. Ever wonder why Gruntpocalypse is so popular, the simple fact is more/weaker enemies make you feel like more of a bad-ass.

I feel like most games have a decent balance. Hordes of weak enemies, then a boss. The boos is to show some struggle in the game, and to see if you've actually picked up anything since the beginning. Developers can't have a newbie with no prior experience beating their game. It defeats the purpose of re-use.
Grunts and jackals are appropriately weak and Hunters are appropriately strong, but neither extremity is particularly fun in my opinion (I very much doubt anyone would play Gruntpocalypse for long if it weren't for the payout).

Middle ground, a sweet spot so often lacking in FPS games, is key and complements both ends of the spectrum. In Halo this comes in the form of the Elites, who define the campaign experience because their technical capabilities are identical to the player (rather than being tediously below or frustratingly above).
I see where you're coming from. Grunt's are too weak, you can't feel like a bad-ass going up a simple squad.

Now elites. You say they're our equal, but as many other games show, in order to accomplish that "bad-ass" feeling, you have to make your equals seem inferior. (I understand that there's the possible argument that there's a person playing behind the spartan, and the elite is just an AI, but that shouldn't have anything to do with this sense of frustration.)

I say give the elites the same controls/moving capabilities, but lower their health by half. As a long time gamer, I know first hand that it feels like a greater success when you plow threw 40 of your "equals" in a minute, rather then going up against a squad of 5. Basically, bigger groups, less health.

Another possible productive way of doing this would be to start the game against a squad of elites, but these elites actually are your equals in almost every way. As the game goes on, the elites start having less and less health, but they start to show up more in the numbers. Making you feel like you're accomplishing something/grown skill. (Haven't used the gametype creation much on Reach, not sure if possible).

Now for the boss round idea I stated earlier, I was was talking about 1 boss, a single enemy. The current boss round idea is pretty flawed. A boss is supposed to encourage teamwork, but in the current boss rounds it's just a mad free for all to not die, everyone goes off their separate ways to go do their own thing. I feel 1 boss would be best.

[Edited on 10.02.2011 8:23 AM PDT]

  • 10.02.2011 4:54 AM PDT
Subject: Can the fun be found in Firefight?
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MY EYES...THEY BURN!!!
On topic I miss the real halo gameplay, the cowardly funny grunts the over confident elites and more so the flood.

Halo has changed alittle to much. An option to add a translator would be nice... I mean as an elite we can't understand the elites on our team.

They should go back to where they would use all they had and charge at you with a sword while you're trying to take out his other 3 mates, not just him running and slashing at you -_-

  • 10.02.2011 5:18 AM PDT
Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.

why do you have to be so analytical and negative, just play the game for a bit of fun for once

  • 10.02.2011 5:34 AM PDT

What a hipster.

Posted by: stefboxman101
why do you have to be so analytical and negative, just play the game for a bit of fun for once
Trust me, we play the game, A LOT. We're just always looking for improvement.

  • 10.02.2011 5:47 AM PDT
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It's Hazard Time

OP, aftre downloading and playing your "revival" mode for Firefight I must say that it kicks a lot of blam!
Sure is teh most fun I've had in Reach Firefight since release :D
I hope you've posted this on the 343i/waypoint forums too, if this could be implemented into normal matchmaking it would be a blast. Combined with unlimited gametime, even better.
However I doubt any game would last longer then 30 mins due to pure awesomeness from the AIs ^^

Long story short; You've revived Firefight and made it feel like a new game, more like ODST again :)

  • 10.02.2011 8:01 AM PDT
Subject: Bip, Bap, Boring! Welcome to Firefight.
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Posted by: Commander GX
I say give the elites the same controls/moving capabilities, but lower their health by half.
Do you mean 50% of the player's health or 50% of their current health? The gametype uses the latter setup and it does work wonders; with the DMR minor elites/airborne are 4 shots, majors are 6 and ultras are 8.

Posted by: Grumbledock
OP, aftre downloading and playing your "revival" mode for Firefight I must say that it kicks a lot of blam!
Sure is teh most fun I've had in Reach Firefight since release :D
I hope you've posted this on the 343i/waypoint forums too, if this could be implemented into normal matchmaking it would be a blast. Combined with unlimited gametime, even better.
However I doubt any game would last longer then 30 mins due to pure awesomeness from the AIs ^^

Long story short; You've revived Firefight and made it feel like a new game, more like ODST again :)
Good to see this has been well received. I did post it on 343i's board (here), although I haven't gone through the same effort to keep the thread alive. I'll probably kick the thread up the rear once I have some gameplay footage (I have a lot of things worth uploading and rendering but I can do nothing with any of them until I have XBL up and running - which won't be for at least another week).

Posted by: Scary BIack Man
Tom, you have no idea how proud I am of you voicing your opinion like this.
This thread is actually a follow up to something I came up with a while ago, on page 11 of a far longer rant thread. Forum Ninjas are members first, moderators second. We're free to discuss aspects of the game like everyone else :)

[Edited on 10.02.2011 10:13 AM PDT]

  • 10.02.2011 10:11 AM PDT

The Halo series was my first and favorite FPS series.
I enjoy most games throughout all systems despite what some people say.

Oh, and on the forums, I tell it like it is, like it or not.

I think firefight is a good way to break from competitive play. I do think the main reason it was added was a counter to COD's zombies.

BTW, reading this burned my retinas.

  • 10.02.2011 10:15 AM PDT

I disagree, Firefight is the only feature in this game, other than theater, that is tolerable anymore.



I will have to try this sometime.

[Edited on 10.02.2011 10:48 AM PDT]

  • 10.02.2011 10:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Commander GX
Now elites. You say they're our equal, but as many other games show, in order to accomplish that "bad-ass" feeling, you have to make your equals seem inferior. (I understand that there's the possible argument that there's a person playing behind the spartan, and the elite is just an AI, but that shouldn't have anything to do with this sense of frustration.)
That was in CE. ;)

Posted by: Commander GX
I say give the elites the same controls/moving capabilities, but lower their health by half. As a long time gamer, I know first hand that it feels like a greater success when you plow threw 40 of your "equals" in a minute, rather then going up against a squad of 5. Basically, bigger groups, less health.
THIS. A major elite shouldn't be able to take a melee from a spartan III without recoiling/stumbling. An Ultra Elite, an Elite who just has stronger shields, shouldn't be able to take multiple frag grenades.

Elites should have the same health but differing skill/preferences. Just like in CE.

Posted by: Commander GX
Another possible productive way of doing this would be to start the game against a squad of elites, but these elites actually are your equals in almost every way. As the game goes on, the elites start having less and less health, but they start to show up more in the numbers. Making you feel like you're accomplishing something/grown skill. (Haven't used the gametype creation much on Reach, not sure if possible).
I approve this message. That's how CE Legendary worked.

  • 10.02.2011 10:56 AM PDT

Posted by: Gangster No1
Anyone who claims the AR takes skill ought to shoot himself in the head. Preferably with the AR because they'll most likely miss with any other weapon.

I want to be able to get out NR'd by an Elite. I want him to SK strafe me or stick me from across the map. Have two Elites surround me or bait me into a trap. Imagine that? Obviously you cannot create that with custom settings.

One can only hope.

  • 10.02.2011 10:58 AM PDT

S.A.A.

SAAKILLER is pronounced: S.A.A.KILLER


Posted by: China
Not Again! This is like the millionth time that this has happened!


[Edited on 10.02.2011 11:16 AM PDT]

  • 10.02.2011 11:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: zapzap09
I want to be able to get out NR'd by an Elite. I want him to SK strafe me or stick me from across the map. Have two Elites surround me or bait me into a trap. Imagine that? Obviously you cannot create that with custom settings.

One can only hope.
Introducing enemy AI emotions such as happiness based on his performance might make that possible. If happy and you know it, throw a grenade long range. If sad and frustrated, try a new tactic. If angry and vengeful, move faster, fire faster, leap melee, even fire at corpse.

  • 10.02.2011 11:42 AM PDT


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
even fire at corpse.

But they already do that!

  • 10.02.2011 12:01 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz


Posted by: Tom T
Posted by: CM Punk
I think the reason Firefight has lost it's charm is simply because it has become to "Arcadey" and lacks the feeling of Survival, which in turn makes the game lose its Tactical merits. Horde and even COD Zombies is much more simplistic and presents a more involving level of gameplay.

In Firefight you can essentially run around and shoot aimlessly with no real consequence or regard for lives and tactical prowess.
Very true. In Reach you seldom have an obvious base, "Weapon drop" is no longer sweet music to your ears and there is no need to conserve ammo (infinite ammo crates) before the inevitable scramble for any viable weapon. There is too much handholding. Reach Firefight is best described as a 10 minute arcade session; ODST Firefight was a survival mode.

I have to agree here...ODST Firefight really was a scramble to survive, and "Weapon Drop" was a godsend. And you know what? It was FUN! The hilarity as you turn around only to see a Brute Chieftain enraged with his gravity hammer....

Plus, ODST FF forced you to play with XBL friends. I remember some very funny games on ONI Alpha Site (the indoors map).

  • 10.02.2011 12:09 PM PDT

What a hipster.

Posted by: Tom T
Posted by: Commander GX
I say give the elites the same controls/moving capabilities, but lower their health by half.
Do you mean 50% of the player's health or 50% of their current health? The gametype uses the latter setup and it does work wonders; with the DMR minor elites/airborne are 4 shots, majors are 6 and ultras are 8.
Current health, but I'd need to test out both to know for sure which would be more effective.

Is there a possible way to make more elites spawn overtime with lower shields? (Haven't used Reach's Gametype creator much).

[Edited on 10.02.2011 1:20 PM PDT]

  • 10.02.2011 1:15 PM PDT