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Subject: Differences between S-II and S-III

Can someone tell me the differences between the two generations, as I'm unsure? This is what I know: S-II are bigger (tall and heavier) and their augmentations are more concentrated/intense/advanced. Can anyone clear this up?

  • 09.19.2011 3:54 PM PDT

"It is done. By my hands. The pyrrhic solution is ignited. All I have left is the quiet of space to lull me to sleep.
I will dream of you." - The Didact

Read The Fall of Reach (for S-II) and research Project: Chrysanthemum (for S-III)

  • 09.19.2011 3:57 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

The augmentations aren't much different. They are done differently, yet get the same results. Increased muscle density, hardened bones and increased visuals. The Spartan-IIs do get a thyroid augmentation to make them bigger, however Gamma Company Spartan-IIIs get an augmentation that makes them harder to skill. An S-III named Dante's side was gored by needler rounds but all he said "I think I've been nicked" before collapsing from the sheer shock catching up to him.

  • 09.19.2011 3:58 PM PDT

Bungie cheated when creating S-IIIs for Halo: Reach.

Original canon: S-IIIs can't use power armor
Bungie on Halo Reach: Hey, let's give S-IIIs power armor.

[Edited on 09.19.2011 4:04 PM PDT]

  • 09.19.2011 4:03 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: PlasmaSnake893
Bungie cheated when creating S-IIIs for Halo: Reach.

Original canon: S-IIIs can't use power armor
Bungie on Halo Reach: Hey, let's give S-IIIs power armor.


Where was it ever stated S-IIIs couldn't use power armor? They only used SPI armor due to it being cheaper than creating over 300 MJOLNIR suits.

  • 09.19.2011 4:05 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: PlasmaSnake893
Bungie cheated when creating S-IIIs for Halo: Reach.

Original canon: S-IIIs can't use power armor
Bungie on Halo Reach: Hey, let's give S-IIIs power armor.


Where was it ever stated S-IIIs couldn't use power armor? They only used SPI armor due to it being cheaper than creating over 300 MJOLNIR suits.

Okay, maybe it didn't. I can't remember. Still, why are these Spartans so special they get special armor as opposed to everyone else? (Obvious answer I'm forgetting?)

It's still a bit of a cop-out to say these Spartans magically are allowed to have this special armor, and what do you know, conveniently they actually did something important and conveniently Bungie is going to make a game about them. It just implies to me Bungie wanted you to play as a Spartan without actually being a Spartan II, so they broke their normal rules and made these Spartan IIIs with fancy armor, just because they could.

I like the fact humanity is still worried about profits...the suits being too "expensive" when a technologically-superior, larger alien collective is inevitably (without the whole Covenant breakdown thing) going to kill them all. Good team work, guys.

[Edited on 09.19.2011 4:17 PM PDT]

  • 09.19.2011 4:16 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: PlasmaSnake893

Okay, maybe it didn't. I can't remember. Still, why are these Spartans so special they get special armor as opposed to everyone else? (Obvious answer I'm forgetting?)


Because they were some of the best of the S-IIIs. They got sent on high-risk missions. But yeah, let's give the best soldiers crappy SPI armor. Great logic.

It's still a bit of a cop-out to say these Spartans magically are allowed to have this special armor, and what do you know, conveniently they actually did something important and conveniently Bungie is going to make a game about them. It just implies to me Bungie wanted you to play as a Spartan without actually being a Spartan II, so they broke their normal rules and made these Spartan IIIs with fancy armor, just because they could.

You say the broke a rule that wasn't even a rule.

I like the fact humanity is still worried about profits...the suits being too "expensive" when a technologically-superior, larger alien collective is inevitably (without the whole Covenant breakdown thing) going to kill them all. Good team work, guys.

Even if they got rid of currency, the technology and resources aren't all there.

  • 09.19.2011 4:21 PM PDT

Posted by: AngryBrute1
Oh yeah, since somebody does not believe what YOU believe; that makes us vapid...
I cannot grasp that what you call "Something happened to nothing, and that nothing became something, and it was smaller than than a period."

Spartan-II: Were trained from the age of six and were augmented with various items, most subjects died.
Spartan-III: Were trained from the age of six and were given drugs that did the same thing as the II's, so they don't know the pain of losing friends as much as chief.

  • 09.19.2011 4:44 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

Spartan IIs are slightly better in most ways. Slightly

  • 09.19.2011 4:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: PlasmaSnake893
Bungie cheated when creating S-IIIs for Halo: Reach.

Original canon: S-IIIs can't use power armor
Bungie on Halo Reach: Hey, let's give S-IIIs power armor.


They are fully capable of using MJOLNIR, but the cost of one set of armour is comparable to a small starship.

  • 09.19.2011 5:24 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Because they were some of the best of the S-IIIs. They got sent on high-risk missions. But yeah, let's give the best soldiers crappy SPI armor. Great logic.

Who made the argument the best soldiers should get crappy SPI armor? I already said I was probably missing something obvious. I was unaware they were the best of the S-IIIs. If they were, that's pretty disappointing.

You say the broke a rule that wasn't even a rule.
Oh yes, it was a written rule. I have a copy of the the 2009 edition of "117 Rules of Halo Canon: A Bungie Employee's Guide of Dos and Don'ts". Please, take everything I say by the strictest of dictionary definitions and don't even consider the possibility that any colloquial applications of the words exist, because that's how communication works.

I was just trying to communicate to you that, in the Halo universe, there existed the idea that S-IIIs use cheaper SPI armor because Spartan II armor was too expensive. This rule (oh I'm sorry, pattern? Situation? Choose your own adventure, I guess.) was followed until we got to Halo Reach, where Bungie wanted to have their cake and eat it by having you not play as a Spartan II while basically playing as a Spartan II. So they slapped power armor onto these S-IIIs.

So, no, [insert deity here] didn't come down and say "Thou shalt not put power armor on S-IIIs", but still, you had this situation in the Halo universe that Bungie just decided to throw away just because they can. I don't even really care that the S-IIIs got to use the power armor...whatever. I just dislike Bungie's reasons for doing so, and I find the method of creating Spartan II/ODST hybrids that don't even fit in with the rest of their class to be messy and unnecessary.

Even if they got rid of currency, the technology and resources aren't all there.
Maybe, but I'm pretty sure greenbacks were the biggest factor.

  • 09.19.2011 5:44 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

They're basically the same physically. Mentally they were trained fairly differently. The only big difference is that S-III's did not use Mjolnir, they had SPI armour.

  • 09.19.2011 5:49 PM PDT

Plasma, ideas do not = rules. It has never been stated Spartan III's could not use MJOLNIR, nor that specialized teams didn't use it in place of SPI.

  • 09.19.2011 5:53 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Plasma, ideas do not = rules. It has never been stated Spartan III's could not use MJOLNIR, nor that specialized teams didn't use it in place of SPI.


Screw the rules, I have MJOLNIR Armor!

[Edited on 09.19.2011 6:12 PM PDT]

  • 09.19.2011 6:12 PM PDT
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Here we go again, saying regular S-IIIs are the same as S-IIs.....

Sure, NOBLE Team level S-IIIs are basically the same but lacking a thyroid implant, but regular S-IIIs were not the same.

Like I've said before, multiple times.

S-IIIs were as good as S-IIs were PREDICTED to be

HOWEVER

Halsey and Mendez were shocked when the S-IIs did FAR better then expected. An example being instead of a 300% boost to reaction time(0.09 seconds) they had a 1400% boost(0.02 seconds).

S-IIs > S-IIIs
S-IIs slightly > NOBLE Team level S-IIIs(Due to experience and thyroid implant)

  • 09.19.2011 10:07 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
Here we go again, saying regular S-IIIs are the same as S-IIs.....

Sure, NOBLE Team level S-IIIs are basically the same but lacking a thyroid implant, but regular S-IIIs were not the same.

Like I've said before, multiple times.

S-IIIs were as good as S-IIs were PREDICTED to be

HOWEVER

Halsey and Mendez were shocked when the S-IIs did FAR better then expected. An example being instead of a 300% boost to reaction time(0.09 seconds) they had a 1400% boost(0.02 seconds).

S-IIs > S-IIIs
S-IIs slightly > NOBLE Team level S-IIIs(Due to experience and thyroid implant)


And as I've said before, You have YET TO PROVE Spartan III's are as 'good as predicted'.

  • 09.19.2011 10:08 PM PDT
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what fo you mean? You've already posted their bio-augs and stats, but in the case of S-IIs, the stats were BEFORE the procedures, making them PREDICTIONS. The S-IIIs had already gone through at least 1 or 2 classes at the point were you got the quote for S-III augmentations.

Prediction=/=already known

  • 09.19.2011 10:10 PM PDT


Posted by: superiorarsenal
what fo you mean? You've already posted their bio-augs and stats, but in the case of S-IIs, the stats were BEFORE the procedures, making them PREDICTIONS. The S-IIIs had already gone through at least 1 or 2 classes at the point were you got the quote for S-III augmentations.

Prediction=/=already known


Um, no.

The stats listed, IIRC, are what the augmentation does, that's it. (Aka, both are listed as stats before augmentations given.)

You see, for some reason you use this BS about Spartan III's ONLY getting 300% boost to reaction times, even though there is no information about it given during latter/post training.

Unlike the other guy, you refuse to admit "There is a lack of information, so while I can say Spartan III's a slightly shorter and perhaps slightly weaker, I can't say S2's have far better reaction times."

[Edited on 09.19.2011 10:14 PM PDT]

  • 09.19.2011 10:13 PM PDT
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You are missing the point.

The S-IIs were only predicted to have that quality of augs. Due to their genes, they took them much better.

S-IIIs had already gone through 1-2 classes from the point you got that quote. This means they knew exactly what the augs did. This is not the case for S-IIs.

And sure they can improve over time. But improving their reaction time by 450%? Do you know how impossible that is? Like running a 20 minute 5k and a year later after training running a 5 minute 5k.

  • 09.19.2011 10:18 PM PDT

You are missing mine completely, even though I clearly stated it.

I said, post augmentations there is no information or hard numbers about what the results ended up being beyond similar, if not the same as Spartan IIs.

You have NEVER provided proof that Spartan III's did not get the same reaction time boost bar going "Predicted" bull-blam!-. If I grab a bottle of pills, they say "provides 1 hour of headache relief." and when I take it my headache goes away for two hours. Then next person grabs it(same type of pill, but with some advances making it easier to take and such) and the label is the same, does that mean magically it only would provide 1 hour relief instead of possibly 2 hours? Nope.

My point is you are using the labels of the augmentations, which are unlikely to change as each person wouldn't get the perfect same results, as solid proof.

[Edited on 09.19.2011 10:29 PM PDT]

  • 09.19.2011 10:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
You are missing mine completely, even though I clearly stated it.

I said, post augmentations there is no information or hard numbers about what the results ended up being beyond similar, if not the same as Spartan IIs.

You have NEVER provided proof that Spartan III's did not get the same reaction time boost bar going "Predicted" bull-blam!-. If I grab a bottle of pills, they say "provides 1 hour of headache relief." and when I take it my headache goes away for two hours. Then next person grabs it and the label is the same, does that mean magically it only would provide 1 hour relief instead of possibly 2 hours? Nope.

My point is you are using the labels of the augmentations, which are unlikely to change as each person wouldn't get the perfect same results, as solid proof.


Your point works in the case of NOBLE Team, not the majority. NOBLE Team had genes of S-II quality, hence why they did better on the augmentations and were taken out and treated special.

And what about S-IIs improving over time? Your point works both ways.

  • 09.19.2011 10:28 PM PDT

My point is you are using lack of information as hard proof, that doesn't work.

Using common sense, we can state the augmentations had same results bar washouts, as Spartan III's can equip MJOLNIR armor. Might not be as great, but they aren't very inferior. Just because we have more information on Spartan II (detailed information on training and augmentation results) DOES NOT mean we can automatically say S3 training/augmentations are worse.

That's about as stupid as saying because we don't have information on Elite or Brute training, they are obviously worse then Spartan II's.

[Edited on 09.19.2011 10:31 PM PDT]

  • 09.19.2011 10:30 PM PDT

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