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Subject: Bungie's next game

Posted by: MLG Armor King
no offense 'stosh', but I don't think you're funny
Posted by: stosh
No offense, but I don't think you're the armor 'king'.
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So it seems to me that Halo Reach was obviously rushed and incomplete, being released with several bugs and problems, balance issues, and overall performance issues, possibly even a lack of enough time for a decent Campaign (opinion, you decide).

So my question is do you think Bungie will rush their next game like they did so tragically with Reach?

I'm not the hugest Gears of War fan, but I remember hearing that the creators elongated the release date for Gears 3 so as to make for a better game instead of a rushed crappy sequel. I'd like to see devotion such as that for Bungie. Nobody likes halfassed stuff. Not that Reach was completely halfassed, but it definitely wasn't what it could have been.

  • 09.21.2011 8:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Bungie has been working on its new project for at least the last two years, and that's just what we know about. Who knows how long before that it was in the works?

I don't think that delaying the launch date of a game implies "devotion." Nor do I think that launching a game quickly implies that the game was "rushed." In fact, it really doesn't imply much at all either way.

I think that some level of "rushing" always happens in any title, where certain aspects of the game end up being cut short or removed because they're incomplete by the time the game is close to launch, but there is no reason or evidence that would lead me to believe that Bungie will "rush" its next title any more than normal.

  • 09.21.2011 8:39 AM PDT

Posted by: MLG Armor King
no offense 'stosh', but I don't think you're funny
Posted by: stosh
No offense, but I don't think you're the armor 'king'.
Map Spotlight - Hydra XXIII
Best. Thread. Ever.
Staff Member of Mythical Group

True I suppose. But it would seem to me that delaying the launch of the game ensures that they have more time to rid of bugs, and perfect the game. Perhaps add more things or change things, etc. I can't see much of a negative from this.

I chose "devotion" simply because in my honest opinion, I feel like Bungie just wanted to get Reach out on time more than make it the best game it could be. Don't get me wrong here, Reach isn't a bad video game, but it doesn't live up to a good Halo game IMO, and spending more time on the game by delaying it would at the least improve the games quality. If they knew there were so many problems with release or they weren't sure everything would be perfect on time, they should not have rushed it like they did.

This all being said, I'm no game dev so I'm speaking from what makes sense to me. And I don't want Bungies next game to enter the same fate as Reachs.

  • 09.21.2011 8:49 AM PDT

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Posted by: x Foman123 x
Bungie has been working on its new project for at least the last two years, and that's just what we know about. Who knows how long before that it was in the works?

I remember hearing somewhere, maybe the ViDoc, that they've been working on this new project since Halo 2 in 04. Not sure if that's accurate though and even if it is, that was probably only developing the story/universe the game will be set in and basic concept drawings.

I think Bungie's taking plenty of time to make sure that Destiny, whatever it is, will feel truly complete.

  • 09.21.2011 8:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: Centauratron
I think Bungie's taking plenty of time to make sure that Destiny, whatever it is, will feel truly complete.


Worst come to worst, we only have another 9 1/2 years to wait.

  • 09.21.2011 9:00 AM PDT


Posted by: x Foman123 x

I think that some level of "rushing" always happens in any title, where certain aspects of the game end up being cut short or removed because they're incomplete by the time the game is close to launch.

RIP space squirrel

  • 09.21.2011 9:07 AM PDT

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Good call! Yeah, there is a lot of things we will never see due to time constraints and so forth. It's just thee way things happen in any production. :)

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Posted by: x Foman123 x

I think that some level of "rushing" always happens in any title, where certain aspects of the game end up being cut short or removed because they're incomplete by the time the game is close to launch.

RIP space squirrel

  • 09.21.2011 9:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: superduper66
True I suppose. But it would seem to me that delaying the launch of the game ensures that they have more time to rid of bugs, and perfect the game. Perhaps add more things or change things, etc. I can't see much of a negative from this.


There'd be no end to the polish phase. Every time you add or alter features, you introduce more bugs and imperfections, and exacerbate all of your existing issues. It's like saying you should aid healing and prevent scar tissue by picking at a scab. (Which is both unhealthy, and totally disgusting.)

Of course we could just add more and more developers, delay the launch of the game indefinitely, and sell our kidneys to fund the entire operation.

Delays are rarely implemented to extend the polish phase of software development. Typically, they're a result of one of two problems:

1. The game can't/won't pass certification
2. The planned release window has been slammed shut by a stronger competitor

  • 09.21.2011 11:08 AM PDT

Rarity FTW


Posted by: urk

Posted by: superduper66
True I suppose. But it would seem to me that delaying the launch of the game ensures that they have more time to rid of bugs, and perfect the game. Perhaps add more things or change things, etc. I can't see much of a negative from this.


There'd be no end to the polish phase. Every time you add or alter features, you introduce more bugs and imperfections, and exacerbate all of your existing issues. It's like saying you should aid healing and prevent scar tissue by picking at a scab. (Which is both unhealthy, and totally disgusting.)

Of course we could just add more and more developers, delay the launch of the game indefinitely, and sell our kidneys to fund the entire operation.

Delays are rarely implemented to extend the polish phase of software development. Typically, they're a result of one of two problems:

1. The game can't/won't pass certification
2. The planned release window has been slammed shut by a stronger competitor


So how do you decide when enough is enough?

  • 09.21.2011 11:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: urk

Posted by: superduper66
True I suppose. But it would seem to me that delaying the launch of the game ensures that they have more time to rid of bugs, and perfect the game. Perhaps add more things or change things, etc. I can't see much of a negative from this.


There'd be no end to the polish phase. Every time you add or alter features, you introduce more bugs and imperfections, and exacerbate all of your existing issues. It's like saying you should aid healing and prevent scar tissue by picking at a scab. (Which is both unhealthy, and totally disgusting.)

Of course we could just add more and more developers, delay the launch of the game indefinitely, and sell our kidneys to fund the entire operation.

Delays are rarely implemented to extend the polish phase of software development. Typically, they're a result of one of two problems:

1. The game can't/won't pass certification
2. The planned release window has been slammed shut by a stronger competitor

As shown, there are ups, and downs of delaying a game.
I would probably not delay the next game, bare with a few glitches, as long as they don't kill me whenever i jump 5 times in a specific spot.

  • 09.21.2011 11:11 AM PDT

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Posted by: coolcor13
So how do you decide when enough is enough?

Deadlines, I would think

  • 09.21.2011 11:12 AM PDT

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Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: coolcor13
So how do you decide when enough is enough?
How do you decide when enough is enough for a paper, or a powerpoint presentation, or a doctoral thesis? You set specific goals which must be reached and the time at which they must be reached by. Anything else you wish to add you work on in your spare time and if it isn't finished by the time it needs to be, you scrap it.

Edit: ^^ Hivemind in more ways than one O_O

[Edited on 09.21.2011 11:18 AM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 11:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: coolcor13
So how do you decide when enough is enough?


It is the same for any design oriented profession. When deadlines are set, is adding another feature really worth it, how much will this problem effect the performance, etc.

  • 09.21.2011 11:17 AM PDT

Posted by: MLG Armor King
no offense 'stosh', but I don't think you're funny
Posted by: stosh
No offense, but I don't think you're the armor 'king'.
Map Spotlight - Hydra XXIII
Best. Thread. Ever.
Staff Member of Mythical Group

Or In Epic's case wanting make sure the game came out more finished. Hmm well it seems like common sense to not delay it continuously. But also it could benefit, could it not? Especially for a game as ambitious as Halo Reach. It doesn't need an indefinite delay or an extensive amount of resources, does it?

  • 09.21.2011 11:39 AM PDT

Posted by: A Bit Of Zero
This thread would have appealed to me more if it was written with crayons.
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
I don't think that delaying the launch date of a game implies "devotion.".

See: Duke Nukem

  • 09.21.2011 11:49 AM PDT

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Posted by: superduper66
Or In Epic's case wanting make sure the game came out more finished. Hmm well it seems like common sense to not delay it continuously. But also it could benefit, could it not? Especially for a game as ambitious as Halo Reach. It doesn't need an indefinite delay or an extensive amount of resources, does it?


I rarely chime in on complaint threads as it seems the OP can never become satisfied with any given answer, but I'll expand of what has already been said I suppose.

Firstly your OP mentioned several bugs... What "several bugs"? If you can name more than five game-debilitating bugs, I'll shake your hand. I think people perceive bugs as "things that don't work the way I want them to." Yeah Bungie made some changes that a lot of people weren't happy with, but I wouldn't consider it a product of rushing.

The game was filled with a ridiculous amount of content, and the main complaint for the majority seemed to be Armor Abilities, bloom, and a short campaign. It scored extremely high across the board, and so to refer to Reach as a bug-riddled imperfect game is a little, well... ridiculous. Was the game a bit short? And could a lot have things been tweaked? Yes, obviously at the end of the day a lot of changes could have been made to alter the game and some of its mechanics, but obviously there was a certain design intended that made sense to Bungie. Although with such a massive audience to please a lot of people ended up not agreeing with how certain things were put together, hence this notion of "being rushed". Like Urk said, they ladies and gents at the studio could have sat on Reach forever, but do you want to know something? Even with years more of development, people still would have been unhappy. Following the logic here?

  • 09.21.2011 11:52 AM PDT

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This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
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Posted by: coolcor13
So how do you decide when enough is enough?


When they are all at the risk of getting fired and the studio at risk financially collapsing.

  • 09.21.2011 11:54 AM PDT

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Posted by: superduper66
Especially for a game as ambitious as Halo Reach.

I didn't get it yet. Does Gears 3 have theater mode and file sharing now? Did they add a map editor? Did they finally bring balanced multiplayer or is it still "look at my chainsaw and shotgun that turn guys into chunks"? Did they give horde customizable weapons, enemy, and AI options like firefight?

  • 09.21.2011 11:54 AM PDT

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I fully agree with you with Reach being rushed, In fact I always said it.


On topic, I doubt Bungies new IP will be rushed, it has been in work for more than 2 years, maybe 3, so I don't really think it will be rushed.

  • 09.21.2011 11:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: urk
. . . Of course we could just add more and more developers, delay the launch of the game indefinitely, and sell our kidneys to fund the entire operation . . .
a.k.a. "Duke Nukem Dev".

  • 09.21.2011 12:07 PM PDT

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Posted by: superduper66
So it seems to me that Halo Reach was obviously rushed and incomplete, being released with several bugs and problems, balance issues, and overall performance issues, possibly even a lack of enough time for a decent Campaign (opinion, you decide).

So my question is do you think Bungie will rush their next game like they did so tragically with Reach?

I'm not the hugest Gears of War fan, but I remember hearing that the creators elongated the release date for Gears 3 so as to make for a better game instead of a rushed crappy sequel. I'd like to see devotion such as that for Bungie. Nobody likes halfassed stuff. Not that Reach was completely halfassed, but it definitely wasn't what it could have been.


Whilst Reach was by far the worst Halo title released to date-though I'm sure that accolade will be purloined by one of the impending trilogy-I never got the sense that it was rushed or buggy. Rather, it felt like the desire to "break the mould" and end their involvement with Halo on a high ultimately led Bungie to make a number of very poor gameplay decisions, to not focus on their weaknesses and to kowtow to, presumably, demands that they entice an even broader audience than they had with their previous titles-note, for instance, that armour abilities are a poor imitation of Call of Duty's perks mechanic, yet are totally incongruent with the Halo series.

Nevertheless, you probably shouldn't be too concerned about the future. All the problems I've just mentioned are Halo-oriented, and inapplicable to non-Halo projects.

Hopefully.

[Edited on 09.21.2011 12:11 PM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 12:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: urk

Posted by: superduper66
True I suppose. But it would seem to me that delaying the launch of the game ensures that they have more time to rid of bugs, and perfect the game. Perhaps add more things or change things, etc. I can't see much of a negative from this.


There'd be no end to the polish phase.

Where you work really hard for low cost?

heyooooooooo

  • 09.21.2011 12:19 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Armor King
no offense 'stosh', but I don't think you're funny
Posted by: stosh
No offense, but I don't think you're the armor 'king'.
Map Spotlight - Hydra XXIII
Best. Thread. Ever.
Staff Member of Mythical Group


Posted by: Obi Wan Stevobi

Posted by: superduper66
Especially for a game as ambitious as Halo Reach.

I didn't get it yet. Does Gears 3 have theater mode and file sharing now? Did they add a map editor? Did they finally bring balanced multiplayer or is it still "look at my chainsaw and shotgun that turn guys into chunks"? Did they give horde customizable weapons, enemy, and AI options like firefight?
I'm not comparing games. I'm saying that halo reach appears unfinished and rushed, where Gears 3 feels like a complete game. Epic delayed the initial release so they could have more time to perfect the game and the same cannot be said for Reach. Chillout fool. I just want bungies new game to suffer from being rushed..

Edit: ^wow I meant not suffer. Pardon me

[Edited on 09.21.2011 12:48 PM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 12:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: coolcor13

Posted by: urk

Posted by: superduper66
True I suppose. But it would seem to me that delaying the launch of the game ensures that they have more time to rid of bugs, and perfect the game. Perhaps add more things or change things, etc. I can't see much of a negative from this.


There'd be no end to the polish phase. Every time you add or alter features, you introduce more bugs and imperfections, and exacerbate all of your existing issues. It's like saying you should aid healing and prevent scar tissue by picking at a scab. (Which is both unhealthy, and totally disgusting.)

Of course we could just add more and more developers, delay the launch of the game indefinitely, and sell our kidneys to fund the entire operation.

Delays are rarely implemented to extend the polish phase of software development. Typically, they're a result of one of two problems:

1. The game can't/won't pass certification
2. The planned release window has been slammed shut by a stronger competitor


So how do you decide when enough is enough?


Whenever Jamie is happy.

  • 09.21.2011 12:45 PM PDT

Old School Gamer and Proud Member of the Seventh Column

I couldn't disagree more with your entire premise, and therefore your conclusion. Declaring that Bungie "rushed Reach" does not make it fact. The things you listed as "problems" are your opinions, not fact. I find Reach incredible in everyway and I certainly do not find Reach rushed.

Posted by: superduper66
So it seems to me that Halo Reach was obviously rushed and incomplete, being released with several bugs and problems, balance issues, and overall performance issues, possibly even a lack of enough time for a decent Campaign (opinion, you decide).

So my question is do you think Bungie will rush their next game like they did so tragically with Reach?

I'm not the hugest Gears of War fan, but I remember hearing that the creators elongated the release date for Gears 3 so as to make for a better game instead of a rushed crappy sequel. I'd like to see devotion such as that for Bungie. Nobody likes halfassed stuff. Not that Reach was completely halfassed, but it definitely wasn't what it could have been.

  • 09.21.2011 12:47 PM PDT

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