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Subject: Why does Thel 'Vadam not kill Johnson and Keyes...

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

...after Tartarus is dead and the ring is inactive?

Am I missing something here, or is this a plot hole of laziness? From Thels' perspective, at this point, he knows nothing about the truth of Humanity and the war unless I have missed something. He only knows that the rings are not passageways to the afterlife but instead WMD's. To him, he should still view humans with bitter contempt and as heretics accursed by his "gods" who are destroying Forerunner artifacts. Why would he continue to indulge in Miranda's and Johnson's presence?

The only thing that I can think of as to why he or the other Sangheili in that room did not execute them on the spot is because they calculated that Humanity could be useful as allies (Or canon fodder) in their fight against the Prophets and Flood. That is quite weak however, as their leadership made it quite clear that they did not want nor need Humanity's help until the NOVA wiped out 3/5ths of their fleet. I don't understand why Thel or the others in that room should suddenly forget the past 27 years of bitter war and dogmatic indoctrination.

  • 09.21.2011 7:08 PM PDT

Elites have been known to show some respect towards humans (after they were dead that is) by way of graciously complementing our military skill. That, combined with the fact that neither side could possibly have survived without the other, what with the Flood and Covenant running around.

And Johnson fought alongside the Arbiter, so they shared a mutual bond in that sense (though a small one). And the philosophy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." The humans were, of the three potential threats to the Elites, the less worrisome, and were at least willing to help and to accept help, however grudgingly so.

  • 09.21.2011 7:15 PM PDT

System Integrity Confirmed

word thread locked

  • 09.21.2011 7:49 PM PDT

It would be much too innapropriate to kill them after they helped them defeat Tartarus. The Elites were probably just extremely hesitant on killing them because of what they had learned; that their purpose for living was a lie.
Besides, coming from the Arbiter's POV, I always got the feeling that he was a more sympathetic and skeptical character.

And what Roberto said.

[Edited on 09.21.2011 7:54 PM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 7:52 PM PDT

It has been indicated that many Elites believed humans should be incorporated into the Covenant and were puzzled by the prophets downright refusal. I mean the Lekgolo literally were eating forerunner relics and they still indoctrinated them into the Covenant...

  • 09.21.2011 7:57 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Poy357
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So, you want to kill the only species capable of stopping the prophets plan to activate the Halo array?

  • 09.21.2011 8:03 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Poy Poy
So, you want to kill the only species capable of stopping the prophets plan to activate the Halo array?

He doesn't know that just yet. He doesn't know anything about the Humans, other than what he has been told all his life.


And then we come to the point that I was fully anticipating.

"The Sangheili respect Humans"

That is nothing more than fan made wishful thinking. There is no more evidence in support of that than there is for the myth that the UNSC won most ground battles against the Covenant.

I see no reason why Thel should not have opened fire. With the way that the Sangheili actually view Humanity, for them at that point to accept the help of Humanity or to ask for it would be like Spartan-IIs seriously considering the aid of Grunts in a battle.

  • 09.21.2011 8:15 PM PDT

We’re flawed because we want so much more. We’re ruined because we get these things and wish for what we had.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Elites have been known to show some respect towards humans (after they were dead that is) by way of graciously complementing our military skill. That, combined with the fact that neither side could possibly have survived without the other, what with the Flood and Covenant running around.

And Johnson fought alongside the Arbiter, so they shared a mutual bond in that sense (though a small one). And the philosophy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." The humans were, of the three potential threats to the Elites, the less worrisome, and were at least willing to help and to accept help, however grudgingly so.

  • 09.21.2011 8:18 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Poy357
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Posted by: anton1792
He doesn't know that just yet. He doesn't know anything about the Humans, other than what he has been told all his life.


Spark was there with them, and he did instruct Keyes to take out the index.

  • 09.21.2011 8:22 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

Elites respect humans = myth

OT: I honestly cannot remember,and my friend refuses to return my Halo 2 so I can't replay the level.

  • 09.21.2011 8:47 PM PDT


Posted by: Makko Mace
Elites respect humans = myth

OT: I honestly cannot remember,and my friend refuses to return my Halo 2 so I can't replay the level.


YouTube.

  • 09.21.2011 8:53 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX


Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: Makko Mace
Elites respect humans = myth

OT: I honestly cannot remember,and my friend refuses to return my Halo 2 so I can't replay the level.


YouTube.


TBH i'd have to replay the whole game, it's been years.

  • 09.21.2011 8:59 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
...after Tartarus is dead and the ring is inactive?

Am I missing something here, or is this a plot hole of laziness? From Thels' perspective, at this point, he knows nothing about the truth of Humanity and the war unless I have missed something. He only knows that the rings are not passageways to the afterlife but instead WMD's. To him, he should still view humans with bitter contempt and as heretics accursed by his "gods" who are destroying Forerunner artifacts. Why would he continue to indulge in Miranda's and Johnson's presence?

The only thing that I can think of as to why he or the other Sangheili in that room did not execute them on the spot is because they calculated that Humanity could be useful as allies (Or canon fodder) in their fight against the Prophets and Flood. That is quite weak however, as their leadership made it quite clear that they did not want nor need Humanity's help until the NOVA wiped out 3/5ths of their fleet. I don't understand why Thel or the others in that room should suddenly forget the past 27 years of bitter war and dogmatic indoctrination.


Do not be silly.

The Arbiter is not as blind sided a fool as you think him. 'Vadam knew the situation and what was at stake if he so blindly and foolishly threw aside a useful ally and combatant as the UNSC.

  • 09.21.2011 9:21 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Poy Poy
Posted by: anton1792
He doesn't know that just yet. He doesn't know anything about the Humans, other than what he has been told all his life.

Spark was there with them, and he did instruct Keyes to take out the index.

Spark never said anything that would let Thel know about the Humans Reclaimer status. Without such, he is far more likely to interpret Sparks instructions as being general to anyone rather than being solely directed at Keyes. He is suddenly supposed to go from viewing Humans as enemies beneath his contempt but then, without any profound evidence from Spark, suddenly views them so much more differently for no real reason?

What really would have happened is what happened at the end of the Bloodline comic. In that Thon makes an agreement with Spartan Black Team to find his brother and help Black Team find their missing Spartan as well. When they find their fellows again, Thon considers their agreement fulfilled and prepares to kill the Spartans despite everything that they had been through. (So much for mutual respect...) After they had stopped Delta Halo, Thel would have done the same. He has no real reason not to but every reason to do so.

  • 09.21.2011 9:37 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Do not be silly.

The Arbiter is not as blind sided a fool as you think him. 'Vadam knew the situation and what was at stake if he so blindly and foolishly threw aside a useful ally and combatant as the UNSC.

He does not view them as useful combatants or allys, or rather he should not. He has no reason to. Nor are his people in need of the UNSC's help because they still have hundreds of ships, about two and a half times more than the Brutes which is more than enough for the Sangheili to fight the Brutes with. The NOVA has not went off yet. It is that event which made their ledership consider Humanity as allies, nothing else.

  • 09.21.2011 9:55 PM PDT

redacted

[Edited on 09.21.2011 10:18 PM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 10:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Sniffy66
Cause it would be a dick move to kill them after they helped him save all life (with exceptions) in the galaxy?


Be nice to him, anton!

  • 09.21.2011 10:06 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
To him, he should still view humans with bitter contempt and as heretics accursed by his "gods" who are destroying Forerunner artifacts.
Wait... why does he still think the Forerunners as gods still? He just found out that the rings are not the ticket to the great journey, which is kind of a serious blow to the covenant religion, and are instead weapons built as a last resort to rid the galaxy of life. Also Spark says they died. Not go on a super holy journey to godhood but died. The covenant religion was just proven wrong to him. He also learned that the prophets, or at least Truth, is just a lie spewing dip-blam!-. Perhaps he thought about the reason they are at war. After all, to him the forerunner ruins are... ruins. Just buildings and structures of a time long ago.

[Edited on 09.21.2011 10:34 PM PDT]

  • 09.21.2011 10:18 PM PDT

"Dude, what are you doing right now?"
"Uhh... Heh, my mom."
"Dude... What?"

You missed that whole second half of the game, brah.

  • 09.21.2011 10:31 PM PDT

Elight

This is what spark said to Thel before you fight Tartarus."After exhausting every other strategic option, my creators activated the rings. They, and all additional sentient life within three radii of the galactic center died, as planned."

  • 09.22.2011 12:01 AM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Elites have been known to show some respect towards humans (after they were dead that is) by way of graciously complementing our military skill. That, combined with the fact that neither side could possibly have survived without the other, what with the Flood and Covenant running around.

And Johnson fought alongside the Arbiter, so they shared a mutual bond in that sense (though a small one). And the philosophy of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." The humans were, of the three potential threats to the Elites, the less worrisome, and were at least willing to help and to accept help, however grudgingly so.


That.

  • 09.22.2011 3:19 AM PDT

They come now... and they take us... the tide rises.


Posted by: Eldor Thug 37
It has been indicated that many Elites believed humans should be incorporated into the Covenant and were puzzled by the prophets downright refusal. I mean the Lekgolo literally were eating forerunner relics and they still indoctrinated them into the Covenant...


What would happen if humans had been integrated into the Covenant?

  • 09.22.2011 5:32 AM PDT

Yay yuh!!!!!

because not all elites are blood thristy. the arbiter didn't kill johnson in halo 2 he helped him to help his own kind.

  • 09.22.2011 7:30 AM PDT

Perhaps he decided that a holy crusade was silly after he learned that the artifacts weren't actually holy, and were certainly not gateways "into the divine beyond"? I mean, that kind of undermines the entire "defilement" justification for slaughtering humans in the first place. Especially when that justification originated from people he now demanded revenge against. And especially after he had just fought alongside those humans.

[Edited on 09.22.2011 10:40 AM PDT]

  • 09.22.2011 10:39 AM PDT

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