- anton1792
- |
- Noble Legendary Member
"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum
Posted by: superiorarsenal
My question is, after learning your entire faith is a lie, why are you suddenly going to go into killing mode and kill 2 people who are not showing any apparent hostilities toward you and are actually acting in a friendly matter?
This is what Thel has to conclude in a short space of time:
That the Great Journey is a lie. No problem here as he is explicitly told this by the Gravemind and 343 Guilty Spark.
That the Forerunners did not achieve divinity and instead died. Again no problems because he hears this straight from 343GS.
Now, however, he must make the conclusion that Forerunner technology is no longer to be respected or that the initial claim of Truth was a lie despite that initial claim, whilst at first being a lie, being proven true in 2552 when MC destroyed Alpha Halo. How and why does he do that?
There should have been a scene where the truth of the war comes out, and where Thel is told explicitly about its beginnings, a scene where we can see him reason that destroying Forerunner technology is not a "sin" punishable by death (Because that is what the whole war is based upon: That Humanity were attempting to destroy Forerunner technology. The Elites believe that it should be deeply respected, so this would tick them off more than anyone. That is the belief that has to be destroyed, not the Great Journey. The Great Journey is practically irrelevant to the claims against Humanity), and where Humanity's inheritance is made clear.
And Thel had no previous respect for Humanity. He did not even view them as people. Them being friendly and helping him really does nothing. Is he going to re-evaluate his whole cultural viewpoint as well now to facilitate Humans as equals too? So now in addition to the above assumptions we are also to accept that he somehow jumps into full blown alliances and start treating them as equals when quite frankly the character portrayed in the novels was a psychopathic religious nutjob who held no such views - who held strongly misanthropist views which did not change even up to Halo 2.
And he is supposed to conclude all that on minimum evidence when he is most likely not trying to disprove his own faith. That means that rather than objectively trying to verify which parts are true he would be trying to preserve aspects. Without a direct statement about the truth of Humanity he is highly unlikely to come to this conclusion, especially when it is so unlikely a truth in his world, when the fate of his own race is ultimately of higher importance to him over the fate of Humanity and that stopping Delta Halo and killing Tartarus is his immediate goal. It would be the least likely thing on his mind. Do you honestly think that he is thinking about theology when Tartarus is trying to kill him?
And for the "n"th time now, Elites seem to have no qualms about betraying people, no matter if they had fought alongside them and particularly when they are Human. I refer you to Thon in the Bloodline comic.
Posted by: superiorarsenal
Johnson had just blown through the Control Room doors and layed down particle beam fire for the purpose of helping you, an you are telling me if you were Thel, you would have immedietly turned around and killed him, especially after hearing all you major beliefs are a lie and maybe your "enemies" are actually correct?
"If I was Thel?" Why are asking that? We are discussing what Thel would do, not what I would do. Realistically, there was not enough evidence for such a strongly religious viewpoint to be overturned. If only things were really that easy in real life, religion would be completely gone. But it is not. The followers of Sebbatai Zevi who lived in the 16th century, despite their false Prophet outwardly proclaiming that he was just that under threat of death from the Ottomans, still believed in him and still linger on as a small cult to this day. They are called the Donme now or something. If all it took to get rid of these "psychic" and "astrologers" was to stand up in front of their audiences and reveal how it was all a trick and expose exactly what was going on, then would not everyone demand their money back? Apparently not, because apparently people are more inclined to boo the person making the truth revealing revelation because they do not want their beliefs ruined. Why is Thel different? There is no reason given as to why he is so particularly special. I do not see how 27 years of brutal indoctrination and bloodletting against Humanity would be overturned by such a weak revelation. Just a month prior to this he was murdering Humans indiscriminately at Reach. Thel's character is bit overrated, because he had almost no development, just a rigid and blatantly artificial progression from "A" to "B" with no steps inbetween.
Posted by: IonicPaul
and you will not hear their logic.
Elaborate on this "logic" that I am missing. All I see in this thread is extreme naivety towards how apparently easy it is for religious people to be shown that their beliefs are false.
Posted by: IonicPaul
but I imagine you wasting way too much time on a minor detail of a plot of game.
Well when someone says that Thel is one of the series' deeper characters, the only way to find out is to...you know...dig deep by looking at details? Well I looked, and he ain't deep in the slightest. He is unrealistic. And this is not a ridicule of Bungie's writing skills necessarily, it is a video game. Rather, it is just for the people who overblow this character into some bull-blam!- messiah or whathaveyou.
[Edited on 09.30.2011 9:43 AM PDT]