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This topic has moved here: Subject: Should new IP development be more transparent to players?
  • Subject: Should new IP development be more transparent to players?
Subject: Should new IP development be more transparent to players?
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(The following represents my own personal opinions. Urk probably has his own arguments for what we expose and why.)

The other thing to keep in mind is that developing a game is both terrifying and boring. Games naturally change a lot during development. Imagine the most drastic and upsetting nerf you've seen in a released game. That's a daily/weekly occurrence during development. Designers change things, swap them back, totally reconfigure them. Features are cut, added back in, postponed. If we exposed all that, it would feel like we were jerking you around.

To be clear, the fact that all these changes happen isn't a sign of bad development, it's a sign of awesomeness. If you're not making a game that's ambitious and challenging and a little scary, what's the point? :)

At the same time, imagine the hundreds of recording attempts that go into your favorite song. No matter how much you like that song, you really don't want to sit and listen to every single take, every dropped microphone or missed chord. It's fun to have some insight into the process, which is why we do behind the scenes and making-of videos, but the minutiae aren't really that interesting.

  • 09.23.2011 9:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
(The following represents my own personal opinions. Urk probably has his own arguments for what we expose and why.)

The other thing to keep in mind is that developing a game is both terrifying and boring. Games naturally change a lot during development. Imagine the most drastic and upsetting nerf you've seen in a released game. That's a daily/weekly occurrence during development. Designers change things, swap them back, totally reconfigure them. Features are cut, added back in, postponed. If we exposed all that, it would feel like we were jerking you around.

To be clear, the fact that all these changes happen isn't a sign of bad development, it's a sign of awesomeness. If you're not making a game that's ambitious and challenging and a little scary, what's the point? :)

At the same time, imagine the hundreds of recording attempts that go into your favorite song. No matter how much you like that song, you really don't want to sit and listen to every single take, every dropped microphone or missed chord. It's fun to have some insight into the process, which is why we do behind the scenes and making-of videos, but the minutiae aren't really that interesting.


Ya, I also wouldn't want to hear about some awesome feature only to see it thrown out the burning plane at the end of production.

[Edited on 09.23.2011 9:28 AM PDT]

  • 09.23.2011 9:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
At the same time, imagine the hundreds of recording attempts that go into your favorite song. No matter how much you like that song, you really don't want to sit and listen to every single take, every dropped microphone or missed chord. It's fun to have some insight into the process, which is why we do behind the scenes and making-of videos, but the minutiae aren't really that interesting.

Great analogy.

*Like Button*

  • 09.23.2011 9:39 AM PDT

ISU Cyclones!

Community can really help fine tune a game when it's almost done but it's really bad at helping create one. I mean just look at this thread.

Look at the reaction to someone from Bungie bringing up Reach as an influence. You let that out to the community at large trying to get input you'll have people freaking out because Reach was worse than cancer to them.

The players aren't very often right about game making decisions, they can help en masse with statistics and overwhelmingly unpopular decisions but at this point all we'd do is give them a headache from the people who want their own personal masterpiece.

  • 09.23.2011 10:51 AM PDT
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I <3 you too Bungie

On top of everything else that's been said I would toss in that community input wouldn't really be that valuable. If they want to know what we would do, desire to have, etc. all they need to do is watch our behavior.

"If you want to know what people are going to do next, watch them instead of asking them "

We've been being watched by Bungie for a looooooong time.

  • 09.23.2011 10:52 AM PDT

Hardcore Entertainment

Wow the employee postings in this thread are really good and have a real content ( I LOOK AT U URK)

  • 09.23.2011 3:06 PM PDT

Wake me, when you need me.

I don't think that's a very good idea.

  • 09.23.2011 3:36 PM PDT

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Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
You guys have actually already had a huge impact on the new IP. We've done tons of work studying how people played Reach and that information has informed what we do next. It's not a simple or linear process, but every time you played Reach (or Halo 3, for that matter), you were contributing to our new project.
Now I feel afraid to turn on my Xbox and play Halo. Who knows what OTHER statistical data you're stealing from me.

  • 09.23.2011 4:36 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: SonicJohn

Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
You guys have actually already had a huge impact on the new IP. We've done tons of work studying how people played Reach and that information has informed what we do next. It's not a simple or linear process, but every time you played Reach (or Halo 3, for that matter), you were contributing to our new project.
Now I feel afraid to turn on my Xbox and play Halo. Who knows what OTHER statistical data you're stealing from me.
Yeah... like... you know... that personal info that they can gather from your Reach stats... the nonexistant kind... :P

  • 09.23.2011 4:43 PM PDT

I love you.
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Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew

  • 09.23.2011 4:44 PM PDT

Key

*points out that you forgot urk*
*accepts your apology*
Posted by: ctjl96
I love you.
*now officially favorite Employee*
Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew

  • 09.23.2011 4:45 PM PDT

wat

urk comes after Honeydew.
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
*points out that you forgot urk*
*accepts your apology*
Posted by: ctjl96
I love you.
*now officially favorite Employee*
Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew


[Edited on 09.23.2011 4:48 PM PDT]

  • 09.23.2011 4:47 PM PDT
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my gt is Godzillla....i just didnt link it properly

bungies trademark is secrecy and hype and all that good stuff

  • 09.23.2011 5:00 PM PDT

Find me anywhere with Pogo947

here is the thing though. Tell us a codename. Tell us what genre it is. the easy stuff. don't go into details yet

  • 09.23.2011 5:36 PM PDT

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Urk > Honeydew > Jerome > Luke > Everyone Else > Disembodied Soul > Stosh

Edit: No offense to Honeydew, Jerome, Luke, Disembodied Soul, or anyone else but Stosh.
Posted by: ctjl96
wat

urk comes after Honeydew.
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
*points out that you forgot urk*
*accepts your apology*
Posted by: ctjl96
I love you.
*now officially favorite Employee*
Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew


[Edited on 09.23.2011 5:44 PM PDT]

  • 09.23.2011 5:43 PM PDT

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Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
(The following represents my own personal opinions. Urk probably has his own arguments for what we expose and why.)

The other thing to keep in mind is that developing a game is both terrifying and boring. Games naturally change a lot during development. Imagine the most drastic and upsetting nerf you've seen in a released game. That's a daily/weekly occurrence during development. Designers change things, swap them back, totally reconfigure them. Features are cut, added back in, postponed. If we exposed all that, it would feel like we were jerking you around.

To be clear, the fact that all these changes happen isn't a sign of bad development, it's a sign of awesomeness. If you're not making a game that's ambitious and challenging and a little scary, what's the point? :)

At the same time, imagine the hundreds of recording attempts that go into your favorite song. No matter how much you like that song, you really don't want to sit and listen to every single take, every dropped microphone or missed chord. It's fun to have some insight into the process, which is why we do behind the scenes and making-of videos, but the minutiae aren't really that interesting.


Even though this sounds boring I still want to be a game developer.

  • 09.23.2011 6:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
You guys have actually already had a huge impact on the new IP. We've done tons of work studying how people played Reach and that information has informed what we do next. It's not a simple or linear process, but every time you played Reach (or Halo 3, for that matter), you were contributing to our new project.
I assume this means profit-sharing.

  • 09.23.2011 6:57 PM PDT

This is a tough one...

No.

  • 09.23.2011 7:58 PM PDT

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Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
The other thing to keep in mind is that developing a game is both terrifying and boring. Games naturally change a lot during development. Imagine the most drastic and upsetting nerf you've seen in a released game. That's a daily/weekly occurrence during development. Designers change things, swap them back, totally reconfigure them.
That stuff actually sounds super interesting. I'd assume as a designer, it would be guessing how people are going to play the game and tweaking it so it's fair for all.

  • 09.23.2011 8:02 PM PDT

One cone to splatter em all!!


Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
(The following represents my own personal opinions. Urk probably has his own arguments for what we expose and why.)

The other thing to keep in mind is that developing a game is both terrifying and boring. Games naturally change a lot during development. Imagine the most drastic and upsetting nerf you've seen in a released game. That's a daily/weekly occurrence during development. Designers change things, swap them back, totally reconfigure them. Features are cut, added back in, postponed. If we exposed all that, it would feel like we were jerking you around.

To be clear, the fact that all these changes happen isn't a sign of bad development, it's a sign of awesomeness. If you're not making a game that's ambitious and challenging and a little scary, what's the point? :)

At the same time, imagine the hundreds of recording attempts that go into your favorite song. No matter how much you like that song, you really don't want to sit and listen to every single take, every dropped microphone or missed chord. It's fun to have some insight into the process, which is why we do behind the scenes and making-of videos, but the minutiae aren't really that interesting.


Thanks for the crystal clear analogy. It makes perfect sense. For instance I would like to see a butt load of cool stuff but pushing it into the game isn't going to enhance the experience cause it's my personal influence. Look at the diversity of forge maps and the different comments. Variety is the spice of life :).

Thnx DeBunsenHoneydew for following the thread if I might ask what what role do you play in the Bungie team? Just curious.

BTW. Is there any data on when we can expect this game to go on the shelves?

ciao

[Edited on 09.24.2011 3:50 AM PDT]

  • 09.24.2011 3:50 AM PDT

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Posted by: ABungieFan

Posted by: drummer0702
I feel that we shouldn't have much of a say in the game at this point in the development. Let the people that work at this company do their jobs.

But in theory wouldn't a game built around player specifications be more desirable to players?


no because then every game would just be a realistic fps based in ww2

  • 09.24.2011 3:53 AM PDT

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Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
(The following represents my own personal opinions. Urk probably has his own arguments for what we expose and why.)

The other thing to keep in mind is that developing a game is both terrifying and boring. Games naturally change a lot during development. Imagine the most drastic and upsetting nerf you've seen in a released game. That's a daily/weekly occurrence during development. Designers change things, swap them back, totally reconfigure them. Features are cut, added back in, postponed. If we exposed all that, it would feel like we were jerking you around.

To be clear, the fact that all these changes happen isn't a sign of bad development, it's a sign of awesomeness. If you're not making a game that's ambitious and challenging and a little scary, what's the point? :)

At the same time, imagine the hundreds of recording attempts that go into your favorite song. No matter how much you like that song, you really don't want to sit and listen to every single take, every dropped microphone or missed chord. It's fun to have some insight into the process, which is why we do behind the scenes and making-of videos, but the minutiae aren't really that interesting.

  • 09.24.2011 5:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: PureDarkness
Posted by: ABungieFan

But in theory wouldn't a game built around player specifications be more desirable to players?

no because then every game would just be a realistic fps based in ww2


They've actually done some research on this in terms of humor. The jokes that have the highest average rating are not bad, but fairly generic. They're probably not the funniest joke that you in particular have ever heard. If we tried to average everyone's expectations, the result would be decent but meh.

  • 09.24.2011 7:34 AM PDT

I dont know exactly what to call it, but it has something to do with spaggetti, duct tape and razor blades...

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I've always felt that with a game on the level of Halo that it would be cool to hear absolutely nothing about the game. Then one day it's just out and there's a mad dash to retailers.

I'm talking about no TV ads, no announcement, nothing till launch day. This would obviously only be doable with a very strong IP.

So, on topic, I like to be surprised.

  • 09.24.2011 8:02 AM PDT


Posted by: DrBunsenHoneydew
You guys have actually already had a huge impact on the new IP. We've done tons of work studying how people played Reach and that information has informed what we do next. It's not a simple or linear process, but every time you played Reach (or Halo 3, for that matter), you were contributing to our new project.


This is what I'm afraid of.

Entertainment shouldn't come in the same form as crack, feeding a growing addiction with no other objective than sustaining that growth.

It's pointless, it's evil, and it's what has thus far degenerated the Halo franchise. Multiplayer, multiplayer, multiplayer, confident that it's the right way to go because all the little junkies seem to be loving it, but completely ignorant of the more noble and creative possibilities that lie in enabling, and ennobling, people rather than shutting them down with more and more easily available Team Slayer.

[Edited on 09.24.2011 8:20 AM PDT]

  • 09.24.2011 8:09 AM PDT