Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Clarification of the Fair use rules on machinima
  • Subject: Clarification of the Fair use rules on machinima
Subject: Clarification of the Fair use rules on machinima

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"On distribution, derivative works that elaborate on a game's fictional universe or story are automatically licensed to Microsoft and its business partners.[112] This prevents legal problems if a fan and Microsoft independently conceive similar plots" http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/articles/pdf/v21/21HarvJLTech567. pdf

Now, I recently asked a question that was "If I create an IP, seperate from the Halo Universe, but use Halo as an engine, without making any money, then later go on to use characters, worlds, etc, in a video game, free from halo assests, and sell it, what are my legal standings?"

I have read the paragraph above, and it seems that If I create a dude named Wedgeskywalker, [lets assume that Skywalker isnt trade marked] and film[using halo reach] his story around his world. Now, his world is completly seperate from Halo. I will only be using the soundtrack, sounds, etc of halo, but not on its universe.

I will then release a videogame of Wedgeskywalker and his world. My game will use NO assests from Halo, current or future, but his story and name were used in a halo machinima...now what happens if I sell it? Do I still own it?

[Edited on 10.04.2011 9:57 PM PDT]

  • 09.30.2011 2:19 PM PDT

"Switching from Default to BJ is like moving from West Philadelphia to Bel-Air. The cab ride over is hard, but once you make it, you're the Fresh Prince." - Unknown

It depends. If Microsoft can prove that the only reason for the popularity of your character and game is due to your use of and association with their Halo franchise, they may sue you and claim ownership.

[Edited on 09.30.2011 2:48 PM PDT]

  • 09.30.2011 2:48 PM PDT

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Posted by: BAKALAKA
It depends. If Microsoft can prove that the only reason for the popularity of your character and game is due to your use of and association with their Halo franchise, they may sue you and claim ownership.
Is that the only way they could sue me?

  • 09.30.2011 2:57 PM PDT

"Switching from Default to BJ is like moving from West Philadelphia to Bel-Air. The cab ride over is hard, but once you make it, you're the Fresh Prince." - Unknown

I'm not sure because I am not a lawyer, just a student in an intro legal class.

  • 09.30.2011 3:06 PM PDT

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Posted by: BAKALAKA
I'm not sure because I am not a lawyer, just a student in an intro legal class.
College or highschool?

  • 09.30.2011 5:10 PM PDT

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I reeeaally need to bump this

  • 10.04.2011 3:48 PM PDT

It's your idea, not Microsoft's. It was okay when you first made your series using Halo for non-profit, so using your idea, making money isn't any different, as long as you're not using Halo.
Microsoft can't sue you for your idea.


[Edited on 10.04.2011 7:29 PM PDT]

  • 10.04.2011 7:22 PM PDT


Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: BAKALAKA
I'm not sure because I am not a lawyer, just a student in an intro legal class.
College or highschool?


High schools have intro legal classes?

If your using any part of someone elses work to make money, it's most likely illegal. But, you will most likely stay under the radar with an indi game.

If for some reason your game blows up, M$ would certainly use that against you to either shut you down/sue or absorb you.

[Edited on 10.04.2011 7:30 PM PDT]

  • 10.04.2011 7:27 PM PDT


Posted by: CubsBlow2

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: BAKALAKA
I'm not sure because I am not a lawyer, just a student in an intro legal class.
College or highschool?

If your using any part of someone elses work to make money, it's most likely illegal.


He wasn't making money when he was using Halo. The official story used for profit has (should) (to) have nothing to do with Halo; what it was previously used for.

Just because he's going on with his idea, having used Halo to portray it, doesn't mean that his idea is owned by Microsoft. Why? Because he wasn't making money to begin with, so he was free to use Halo however he wished.
There's no reason that Microsoft would have claim over his idea if he wasn't making money in the first place.

[Edited on 10.04.2011 8:01 PM PDT]

  • 10.04.2011 7:55 PM PDT

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Posted by: CubsBlow2

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: BAKALAKA
I'm not sure because I am not a lawyer, just a student in an intro legal class.
College or highschool?


High schools have intro legal classes?

If your using any part of someone elses work to make money, it's most likely illegal. But, you will most likely stay under the radar with an indi game.

If for some reason your game blows up, M$ would certainly use that against you to either shut you down/sue or absorb you.
My highschool had a Law12 course

Probally should have taken it

  • 10.04.2011 8:04 PM PDT

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Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: CubsBlow2

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: BAKALAKA
I'm not sure because I am not a lawyer, just a student in an intro legal class.
College or highschool?

If your using any part of someone elses work to make money, it's most likely illegal.


He wasn't making money when he was using Halo. The official story used for profit has (should) (to) have nothing to do with Halo; what it was previously used for.

Just because he's going on with his idea, having used Halo to portray it, doesn't mean that his idea is owned by Microsoft. Why? Because he wasn't making money to begin with, so he was free to use Halo however he wished.
There's no reason that Microsoft would have claim over his idea if he wasn't making money in the first place.
See, this is why im so concerned. It could EASILY go either way

  • 10.04.2011 8:05 PM PDT


Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: CubsBlow2

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: BAKALAKA
I'm not sure because I am not a lawyer, just a student in an intro legal class.
College or highschool?

If your using any part of someone elses work to make money, it's most likely illegal.


He wasn't making money when he was using Halo. The official story used for profit has (should) (to) have nothing to do with Halo; what it was previously used for.

Just because he's going on with his idea, having used Halo to portray it, doesn't mean that his idea is owned by Microsoft. Why? Because he wasn't making money to begin with, so he was free to use Halo however he wished.
There's no reason that Microsoft would have claim over his idea if he wasn't making money in the first place.
See, this is why im so concerned. It could EASILY go either way


No, I just said there's no reason Microsoft would have claim over your ideas if you weren't making money before using Halo.
If you were making money (or expanding on the Halo universe through said Machinima), you would have (had to have) formed a partnership with Microsoft (in which case your ideas would belong to them, and you'd not be allowed to branch off with them without Microsoft as that'd be considered copyright infringement (A pretty relevant example would be that Halo hasn't belonged to Bungie for the entire time they've developed the games, as they formed a partnership, giving the rights to the publisher, Microsoft)).
But since you weren't making money, you were never required to form a partnership with them, therefore, the ideas still belong to you; safe and sound in your brain.

But something wild could happen; Microsoft could steal your idea while you were still making the Machinima, and make it their own. That's pretty nasty because it technically would not be considered copyright infringement since you weren't making profit. This paragraph of my post is in response to the second statement of your copy/paste. Although, distribution means that you're making money, and that with Halo, your are not.
So, if you're making money off of a Machinima, Microsoft claims legal ownership of it, and can do with it what they please so to prevent legal conflict between plots if you wanted to branch off with it.
On the other hand (but this is the HIGHLY unlikely situation), Microsoft yoink's your idea while you're still using Halo (nonprofit), them being free to use it to make money for themselves.
But at least that tells you your idea was really good. :P

[Edited on 10.04.2011 8:31 PM PDT]

  • 10.04.2011 8:21 PM PDT

Could an argument not be made that the bits and pieces used to create the final product are part of the final product? Basically the r&d or alpha/beta phase of the project is still part of the project regardless of subsequent changes made?

I honestly think its a long shot that any problems would arrive. Not to be an ass, but there are tons of indi games and few have a decent run. If your game did blow up and problems arose, you would at least have a valuable product that could be used as leverage. So, if your game has little success than you wont ever see M$. If it does go big than you would likely have the resources to fight or negotiate.
Worse case scenario, M$ would offer peanuts for your product and threaten a suit if you dont comply.

Go for it!!!

  • 10.04.2011 8:33 PM PDT

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Did you take into account microsoft owns anything I build onto their world? Would that still be an issuie, legaly? Or would I just prove that "This world is not halo", even tho Im using the assets?

  • 10.04.2011 8:34 PM PDT


Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Did you take into account microsoft owns anything I build onto their world?


What do you mean? Like props placed in Forge for the nonprofit Machinima?

  • 10.04.2011 8:40 PM PDT

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Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Did you take into account microsoft owns anything I build onto their world?


What do you mean? Like props placed in Forge for the nonprofit Machinima?

The quote above, It states that they own any stories I build into their world/universe. This is the issuie im having

  • 10.04.2011 8:42 PM PDT


Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Did you take into account microsoft owns anything I build onto their world?


What do you mean? Like props placed in Forge for the nonprofit Machinima?

The quote above, It states that they own any stories I build into their world/universe. This is the issuie im having


They only own it if you're making profit off of it; i.e., forming a partnership.
Your copy/paste states that under distribution , your idea belongs to them.
I may be reading it incorrectly (but undoubtedly to no consequence), but it states only if you elaborate on an existing game's story.
Since you weren't distributing (making profit) your idea to begin with, Microsoft does not own your idea. But if I'm misreading it (once again, to no consequence), it would only count if you were elaborating on an existing game. But don't lean toward the latter, just to be safe.

To put it ALL more simply, according to your paste, you're good, brother. :)
Distribute = making money; which you are not doing while you're making the Machinima using Halo.

Microsoft can't change their legal rules of distribution when you might make it big, because under Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution, it states that you cannot be challenged and charged ex post facto; for a past "crime" according to a new law or policy.

[Edited on 10.04.2011 9:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.04.2011 8:49 PM PDT

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Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Did you take into account microsoft owns anything I build onto their world?


What do you mean? Like props placed in Forge for the nonprofit Machinima?

The quote above, It states that they own any stories I build into their world/universe. This is the issuie im having


They only own it if you're making profit off of it; i.e., forming a partnership.
Your copy/paste states that under distribution , your idea belongs to them.
I may be reading it incorrectly (but undoubtedly to no consequence), but it states only if you elaborate on an existing game's story.
Since you weren't distributing (making profit) your idea to begin with, Microsoft does not own your idea. But if I'm misreading it (once again, to no consequence), it would only count if you were elaborating on an existing game. But don't lean toward the latter, just to be safe.

To put it ALL more simply, according to your paste, you're good, brother. :)
Distribute = making money; which you are not doing while you're making the Machinima using Halo.

Microsoft can't change their legal rules of distribution when you might make it big, because under Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution, it states that you cannot be challenged and charged ex post facto; for a past "crime" according to a new law or policy.
Funny you should bring that up


...I'm Canadian

  • 10.04.2011 9:26 PM PDT


Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Posted by: Ruby of the Blue

Posted by: WEDGESKYWALKER

Did you take into account microsoft owns anything I build onto their world?


What do you mean? Like props placed in Forge for the nonprofit Machinima?

The quote above, It states that they own any stories I build into their world/universe. This is the issuie im having


They only own it if you're making profit off of it; i.e., forming a partnership.
Your copy/paste states that under distribution , your idea belongs to them.
I may be reading it incorrectly (but undoubtedly to no consequence), but it states only if you elaborate on an existing game's story.
Since you weren't distributing (making profit) your idea to begin with, Microsoft does not own your idea. But if I'm misreading it (once again, to no consequence), it would only count if you were elaborating on an existing game. But don't lean toward the latter, just to be safe.

To put it ALL more simply, according to your paste, you're good, brother. :)
Distribute = making money; which you are not doing while you're making the Machinima using Halo.

Microsoft can't change their legal rules of distribution when you might make it big, because under Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution, it states that you cannot be challenged and charged ex post facto; for a past "crime" according to a new law or policy.
Funny you should bring that up


...I'm Canadian


The last paragraph mentioning the Constitution was pretty hypothetical, so nothing to worry about. Besides, if I know this then the big shots over at Microsoft certainly do as well.

Try to dissect legal policies in order to find the answers you're looking for. :)

[Edited on 10.04.2011 9:36 PM PDT]

  • 10.04.2011 9:33 PM PDT

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Disecting them is the reason Im here in the first place :O

  • 10.04.2011 9:40 PM PDT