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"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."


Posted by: Wazooty
Doesn't explain how exactly the old battle fits in. They want us to believe that the SIIs were completely unaware of what was going on until the 30th, even though there was a giant fleet glassing the planet on the 14th?

I think they still need to clarify: the events that started on the 30th in the book now start on the 14th (when the fleet arrives), and instead of all going down in one day, it is extended to two weeks, and ENDS on the 30th.

If they just told us that, I'd be happy.

Still doesn't explain what MC was doing while the POA was docked, because he sure as hell shouldn't be sleeping when the battle is still happening.

I do like the "bait" idea though. They pulled back all their defenses, tried to make reach look weak. Maybe for example, they did that so the covenant wouldn't feel the need to send in a "real" fleet. But then a full fleet arrived (they were completely unaware that the covenant had found what they wanted weeks ago - the artifact - and were already preparing a massive fleet.) So everything was scrapped.
Maybe when the small fleet that was attacking part of the planet was kept in secret by ONI. Even to the SPARTANs not taking part in the fighting. All evac groups were probably sent to ONI Secured Sites. But when blam! hit the fan and The Covenant attacked New Alexandria, the secret was out.

  • 10.08.2011 6:51 AM PDT


Posted by: greatestSheriff

Posted by: Wazooty
Doesn't explain how exactly the old battle fits in. They want us to believe that the SIIs were completely unaware of what was going on until the 30th, even though there was a giant fleet glassing the planet on the 14th?

I think they still need to clarify: the events that started on the 30th in the book now start on the 14th (when the fleet arrives), and instead of all going down in one day, it is extended to two weeks, and ENDS on the 30th.

If they just told us that, I'd be happy.

Still doesn't explain what MC was doing while the POA was docked, because he sure as hell shouldn't be sleeping when the battle is still happening.

I do like the "bait" idea though. They pulled back all their defenses, tried to make reach look weak. Maybe for example, they did that so the covenant wouldn't feel the need to send in a "real" fleet. But then a full fleet arrived (they were completely unaware that the covenant had found what they wanted weeks ago - the artifact - and were already preparing a massive fleet.) So everything was scrapped.
Maybe when the small fleet that was attacking part of the planet was kept in secret by ONI. Even to the SPARTANs not taking part in the fighting. All evac groups were probably sent to ONI Secured Sites. But when blam! hit the fan and The Covenant attacked New Alexandria, the secret was out.


Doesn't seem to unlikely.

As for the dates:
Like I've said numerous times now: Reach (the game) is a reconstruction made sometime after Halo 3, probably based upon the little data and video they could recover from the destroyed planet of Reach several years later.
Due to this information more than likely being in very bad condition, the result of putting that info together (Reach) isn't nearly as accurate as one would like it to be.
This may cover the inconsistencies in the timeline.
The "bait" idea can still hold up, as Reach in the book also wasn't very well protected, at least not as good as it should have been.

That still doesn't account for PoA being on Reach. I know that. Thats the major gripe.
However if the scenario would be, if Chief (and Linda) did the equivalent of their mission at the end of FoR on Reach itself, and not in space. Them boarding PoA before we arrive, and the Spartan in cryo being a wounded Linda (and Chief simply not showing up in Reach). Then that would still conflict with FoR, and with any logical reconstruction of the events (as Cortana has had info on the PoA, and made it to Earth shortly between CE and H2.) but it would mean the effects of the inconsistenty would be significantly smaller. At least, in my opinion, as I recognize you can't expand a universe without having contradictions with stuff written 10 years ago...

  • 10.08.2011 7:07 AM PDT

"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."


Posted by: DonVinzone1

Posted by: greatestSheriff

Posted by: Wazooty
Doesn't explain how exactly the old battle fits in. They want us to believe that the SIIs were completely unaware of what was going on until the 30th, even though there was a giant fleet glassing the planet on the 14th?

I think they still need to clarify: the events that started on the 30th in the book now start on the 14th (when the fleet arrives), and instead of all going down in one day, it is extended to two weeks, and ENDS on the 30th.

If they just told us that, I'd be happy.

Still doesn't explain what MC was doing while the POA was docked, because he sure as hell shouldn't be sleeping when the battle is still happening.

I do like the "bait" idea though. They pulled back all their defenses, tried to make reach look weak. Maybe for example, they did that so the covenant wouldn't feel the need to send in a "real" fleet. But then a full fleet arrived (they were completely unaware that the covenant had found what they wanted weeks ago - the artifact - and were already preparing a massive fleet.) So everything was scrapped.
Maybe when the small fleet that was attacking part of the planet was kept in secret by ONI. Even to the SPARTANs not taking part in the fighting. All evac groups were probably sent to ONI Secured Sites. But when blam! hit the fan and The Covenant attacked New Alexandria, the secret was out.


Doesn't seem to unlikely.

As for the dates:
Like I've said numerous times now: Reach (the game) is a reconstruction made sometime after Halo 3, probably based upon the little data and video they could recover from the destroyed planet of Reach several years later.
Due to this information more than likely being in very bad condition, the result of putting that info together (Reach) isn't nearly as accurate as one would like it to be.
This may cover the inconsistencies in the timeline.
The "bait" idea can still hold up, as Reach in the book also wasn't very well protected, at least not as good as it should have been.

That still doesn't account for PoA being on Reach. I know that. Thats the major gripe.
However if the scenario would be, if Chief (and Linda) did the equivalent of their mission at the end of FoR on Reach itself, and not in space. Them boarding PoA before we arrive, and the Spartan in cryo being a wounded Linda (and Chief simply not showing up in Reach). Then that would still conflict with FoR, and with any logical reconstruction of the events (as Cortana has had info on the PoA, and made it to Earth shortly between CE and H2.) but it would mean the effects of the inconsistenty would be significantly smaller. At least, in my opinion, as I recognize you can't expand a universe without having contradictions with stuff written 10 years ago...
Or, that can be just an Easter Egg and is not supposed to be taken seriously. Chief and what was left of Blue Team were still aboard Gamma Station on orbit. Possibly, when the Autummn left Reach, it sent a Pelican to pick them up oor something.

  • 10.08.2011 7:10 AM PDT


Posted by: greatestSheriff

Posted by: DonVinzone1

Posted by: greatestSheriff

Posted by: Wazooty
Doesn't explain how exactly the old battle fits in. They want us to believe that the SIIs were completely unaware of what was going on until the 30th, even though there was a giant fleet glassing the planet on the 14th?

I think they still need to clarify: the events that started on the 30th in the book now start on the 14th (when the fleet arrives), and instead of all going down in one day, it is extended to two weeks, and ENDS on the 30th.

If they just told us that, I'd be happy.

Still doesn't explain what MC was doing while the POA was docked, because he sure as hell shouldn't be sleeping when the battle is still happening.

I do like the "bait" idea though. They pulled back all their defenses, tried to make reach look weak. Maybe for example, they did that so the covenant wouldn't feel the need to send in a "real" fleet. But then a full fleet arrived (they were completely unaware that the covenant had found what they wanted weeks ago - the artifact - and were already preparing a massive fleet.) So everything was scrapped.
Maybe when the small fleet that was attacking part of the planet was kept in secret by ONI. Even to the SPARTANs not taking part in the fighting. All evac groups were probably sent to ONI Secured Sites. But when blam! hit the fan and The Covenant attacked New Alexandria, the secret was out.


Doesn't seem to unlikely.

As for the dates:
Like I've said numerous times now: Reach (the game) is a reconstruction made sometime after Halo 3, probably based upon the little data and video they could recover from the destroyed planet of Reach several years later.
Due to this information more than likely being in very bad condition, the result of putting that info together (Reach) isn't nearly as accurate as one would like it to be.
This may cover the inconsistencies in the timeline.
The "bait" idea can still hold up, as Reach in the book also wasn't very well protected, at least not as good as it should have been.

That still doesn't account for PoA being on Reach. I know that. Thats the major gripe.
However if the scenario would be, if Chief (and Linda) did the equivalent of their mission at the end of FoR on Reach itself, and not in space. Them boarding PoA before we arrive, and the Spartan in cryo being a wounded Linda (and Chief simply not showing up in Reach). Then that would still conflict with FoR, and with any logical reconstruction of the events (as Cortana has had info on the PoA, and made it to Earth shortly between CE and H2.) but it would mean the effects of the inconsistenty would be significantly smaller. At least, in my opinion, as I recognize you can't expand a universe without having contradictions with stuff written 10 years ago...
Or, that can be just an Easter Egg and is not supposed to be taken seriously. Chief and what was left of Blue Team were still aboard Gamma Station on orbit. Possibly, when the Autummn left Reach, it sent a Pelican to pick them up oor something.


True, and to this day I consider that to be Chief in cryo as a good easter egg. But if we are coming up with plausible scenarios here, than I am more than willing to promote it from being an easter egg to something serious, and take side in the "it's Linda vs it's Chief" debate that was going on about it ;)

Your theory sounds plausible too, surely could have happened like that as well.

  • 10.08.2011 7:18 AM PDT

"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."


Posted by: DonVinzone1

Posted by: greatestSheriff

Posted by: Wazooty
Doesn't explain how exactly the old battle fits in. They want us to believe that the SIIs were completely unaware of what was going on until the 30th, even though there was a giant fleet glassing the planet on the 14th?

I think they still need to clarify: the events that started on the 30th in the book now start on the 14th (when the fleet arrives), and instead of all going down in one day, it is extended to two weeks, and ENDS on the 30th.

If they just told us that, I'd be happy.

Still doesn't explain what MC was doing while the POA was docked, because he sure as hell shouldn't be sleeping when the battle is still happening.

I do like the "bait" idea though. They pulled back all their defenses, tried to make reach look weak. Maybe for example, they did that so the covenant wouldn't feel the need to send in a "real" fleet. But then a full fleet arrived (they were completely unaware that the covenant had found what they wanted weeks ago - the artifact - and were already preparing a massive fleet.) So everything was scrapped.[/quote]Maybe when the small fleet that was attacking part of the planet was kept in secret by ONI. Even to the SPARTANs not taking part in the fighting. All evac groups were probably sent to ONI Secured Sites. But when blam! hit the fan and The Covenant attacked New Alexandria, the secret was out.[/quote]

Doesn't seem to unlikely.

As for the dates:
Like I've said numerous times now: Reach (the game) is a reconstruction made sometime after Halo 3, probably based upon the little data and video they could recover from the destroyed planet of Reach several years later.
Due to this information more than likely being in very bad condition, the result of putting that info together (Reach) isn't nearly as accurate as one would like it to be.
This may cover the inconsistencies in the timeline.
The "bait" idea can still hold up, as Reach in the book also wasn't very well protected, at least not as good as it should have been.

That still doesn't account for PoA being on Reach. I know that. Thats the major gripe.
However if the scenario would be, if Chief (and Linda) did the equivalent of their mission at the end of FoR on Reach itself, and not in space. Them boarding PoA before we arrive, and the Spartan in cryo being a wounded Linda (and Chief simply not showing up in Reach). Then that would still conflict with FoR, and with any logical reconstruction of the events (as Cortana has had info on the PoA, and made it to Earth shortly between CE and H2.) but it would mean the effects of the inconsistenty would be significantly smaller. At least, in my opinion, as I recognize you can't expand a universe without having contradictions with stuff written 10 years ago...
Or, that can be just an Easter Egg and is not supposed to be taken seriously. Chief and what was left of Blue Team were still aboard Gamma Station on orbit. Possibly, when the Autummn left Reach, it sent a Pelican to pick them up oor something.


True, and to this day I consider that to be Chief in cryo as a good easter egg. But if we are coming up with plausible scenarios here, than I am more than willing to promote it from being an easter egg to something serious, and take side in the "it's Linda vs it's Chief" debate that was going on about it ;)

Your theory sounds plausible too, surely could have happened like that as well.
Thanks.

  • 10.08.2011 10:10 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I'm impressed. I'm glad 343 is making an effort to try and clean things up.

That's all I say for the moment, but I DO want to say that a campaign focused on the battle of Reach shown in TFoR and First Strike could be a full fledged campaign. It wouldn't be "2 hours" and anyone who read First Strike would know that.

  • 10.08.2011 11:06 AM PDT

Umm........how did ONI know that the covenant operated out of a the 'dome-ship' when the fist time any human had seen it was when it slipped in above delta halo, and why did they still even need the POA for red flag if the plan all along was to bait a fleet so they could steal a covie ship and quietly slip into high charity with it.

Also how the hell did they even know where high charity is! arghhh!

  • 10.08.2011 11:25 AM PDT


Posted by: Fatal Factor
Umm........how did ONI know that the covenant operated out of a the 'dome-ship' when the fist time any human had seen it was when it slipped in above delta halo, and why did they still even need the POA for red flag if the plan all along was to bait a fleet so they could steal a covie ship and quietly slip into high charity with it.

Also how the hell did they even know where high charity is! arghhh!
These are all assumptions but I believe since it was the largest structure they have seen out of the Covenant, I thought they had seen a picture of it before as well? They probably didn't even need the PoA, that's why it was docked. They probably had coordinates on the Covy ship they stole.

  • 10.08.2011 11:30 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: Fatal Factor
Umm........how did ONI know that the covenant operated out of a the 'dome-ship' when the fist time any human had seen it was when it slipped in above delta halo, and why did they still even need the POA for red flag if the plan all along was to bait a fleet so they could steal a covie ship and quietly slip into high charity with it.

Also how the hell did they even know where high charity is! arghhh!


The UNSC knew about High Charity LONG before Delta Halo.

Halo Evolutions showed that ONI had men inside of High Charity as early as the 2530's. Not only that, but Halsey's Journal shows pictures of High Charity which Halsey comments on.

  • 10.08.2011 11:33 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: Fatal Factor
Umm........how did ONI know that the covenant operated out of a the 'dome-ship' when the fist time any human had seen it was when it slipped in above delta halo, and why did they still even need the POA for red flag if the plan all along was to bait a fleet so they could steal a covie ship and quietly slip into high charity with it.

Also how the hell did they even know where high charity is! arghhh!
These are all assumptions but I believe since it was the largest structure they have seen out of the Covenant, I thought they had seen a picture of it before as well? They probably didn't even need the PoA, that's why it was docked. They probably had coordinates on the Covy ship they stole.


An ONI guy named Brien from a Halo evolutions story was on High Charity before the fall of Reach.

Edit: Oww Caboose beat me to it :)

[Edited on 10.08.2011 11:35 AM PDT]

  • 10.08.2011 11:34 AM PDT


Posted by: DonVinzone1

Posted by: LiquidusClone
I still don't like Reach campaign

I want the REAL Reach campaign


And how is the REAL Reach campaign in your memory?
Because, let me make this clear: Fall of Reach does not explore the battle on Reach in any detail. Just some references and some global stuff. It does feature the space battle in more detail. But still: the actual battle of Reach only lasts about 40 pages (out of 300+) in the book, of which most is just space battle and Chief, Keyes and Cortana witnessing the battle and coming up with plans...

Then Reach falls in about 2 hours, and relatively small pockets of resistance hold out until 3 weeks later.

The ground battle not being discussed doesn't mean 75% of what happens in Reach (the game) is inaccurate. The fact that you don't like it, and therefore discard it as "stupid" doesn't mean it can't fit in (when you take in account the "inconsistenties" due to the game being "the most complete reconstruction anybody has been able to construct").

You see the fact that the planet fell was to capture a covenant ship. In first strike, chief still basically wanted to still preceed with the mission redflag. Good thing he didn't though.

  • 10.08.2011 11:43 AM PDT

Hot damn. Ive read evolutions and i totally dont remember that. Ill have to pull the book out again soon. But i do remember the journal pix actually, but it just looked like a starfeild nothing obviously dome shaped.

Still, why did they need the POA then? And im still not quite sure how the POA could have been on the planet. I really need a simple visual timeline for the whole fall of reach and i wish 343 would make one :(

  • 10.08.2011 11:44 AM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose

Posted by: Fatal Factor
Umm........how did ONI know that the covenant operated out of a the 'dome-ship' when the fist time any human had seen it was when it slipped in above delta halo, and why did they still even need the POA for red flag if the plan all along was to bait a fleet so they could steal a covie ship and quietly slip into high charity with it.

Also how the hell did they even know where high charity is! arghhh!


The UNSC knew about High Charity LONG before Delta Halo.

Halo Evolutions showed that ONI had men inside of High Charity as early as the 2530's. Not only that, but Halsey's Journal shows pictures of High Charity which Halsey comments on.



Which evolutions story states that? I don't remember it at all.

  • 10.08.2011 11:51 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: privet caboose

Posted by: Fatal Factor
Umm........how did ONI know that the covenant operated out of a the 'dome-ship' when the fist time any human had seen it was when it slipped in above delta halo, and why did they still even need the POA for red flag if the plan all along was to bait a fleet so they could steal a covie ship and quietly slip into high charity with it.

Also how the hell did they even know where high charity is! arghhh!


The UNSC knew about High Charity LONG before Delta Halo.

Halo Evolutions showed that ONI had men inside of High Charity as early as the 2530's. Not only that, but Halsey's Journal shows pictures of High Charity which Halsey comments on.



Which evolutions story states that? I don't remember it at all.


Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss.

  • 10.08.2011 11:52 AM PDT

Yeah found it. Doesn't make any sense at all.

  • 10.08.2011 11:56 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Yeah found it. Doesn't make any sense at all.


Makes a lot of sense when you consider all of the stuff we've learned about ONI in the last couple of years.

  • 10.08.2011 12:04 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Yeah found it. Doesn't make any sense at all.


Makes a lot of sense when you consider all of the stuff we've learned about ONI in the last couple of years.


How would they get somebody into high charity and out again?

If they can do that, why not do the same thing with the Spartans?

How did this guy encounter brutes personally (hinted at a chieftain or two), and not get sniffed out and murdered?

Plus it doesn't really state a date I could see... so why 2530's?

[Edited on 10.08.2011 12:06 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2011 12:06 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

If you noticed, the stories in Evolutions are set in the book chronologically. Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss is set after Pariah, which was set 2517-2525(around this area)
Midlothian is set sometime in the 40's, presumably. Considering Dirt ends with the discovery of Reach, and is set after the Midlothian we have to presume that Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss is set after 2525 and before 2552.

I guess that Midlothian is set sometime in the 40's. So Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss occurred anywhere between 2525-2552. I believe that Pariah ended after 2525(there was a bit of a time skip with Soren...) so I place Stomping on the Heels of a fuss in the 30's. Which is why I said, "As early as the 30's"

  • 10.08.2011 12:14 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Sandtrap
So how does this fix a team of non-existent Spartan IIIs? Just wondering was all.


It's been explained numerous times how Noble and similar teams can exist. They were pulled out of their respective companies before PROMETHEUS.
Thing is though, there seem to be too many S-IIIs being pulled from their respective companies.

- Carter, Jun and Emile from Alpha.
- Kat and Six from Beta.
- Thom.
- Jonah and Roland, probably also from Beta. There are more Headhunter teams too that we've not seen.
- Gauntlet and Echo Team, definitely aren't S-IIs and in total there are 13 of them.

That's well over 20 S-IIIs unaccounted for during their respective operations, I can see it getting to a point where only 3 people took part in these battles...


Possibly project JAVELIN mentioned in halsey's journal has something to do with all of this.

  • 10.08.2011 2:08 PM PDT

weren't there 300 SPARTAN III's?

noble team and others seemed to always fit in my understanding.
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Sandtrap
So how does this fix a team of non-existent Spartan IIIs? Just wondering was all.


It's been explained numerous times how Noble and similar teams can exist. They were pulled out of their respective companies before PROMETHEUS.
Thing is though, there seem to be too many S-IIIs being pulled from their respective companies.

- Carter, Jun and Emile from Alpha.
- Kat and Six from Beta.
- Thom.
- Jonah and Roland, probably also from Beta. There are more Headhunter teams too that we've not seen.
- Gauntlet and Echo Team, definitely aren't S-IIs and in total there are 13 of them.

That's well over 20 S-IIIs unaccounted for during their respective operations, I can see it getting to a point where only 3 people took part in these battles...

  • 10.08.2011 3:40 PM PDT


Posted by: DonVinzone1

Posted by: greatestSheriff

Posted by: Wazooty
Doesn't explain how exactly the old battle fits in. They want us to believe that the SIIs were completely unaware of what was going on until the 30th, even though there was a giant fleet glassing the planet on the 14th?

I think they still need to clarify: the events that started on the 30th in the book now start on the 14th (when the fleet arrives), and instead of all going down in one day, it is extended to two weeks, and ENDS on the 30th.

If they just told us that, I'd be happy.

Still doesn't explain what MC was doing while the POA was docked, because he sure as hell shouldn't be sleeping when the battle is still happening.

I do like the "bait" idea though. They pulled back all their defenses, tried to make reach look weak. Maybe for example, they did that so the covenant wouldn't feel the need to send in a "real" fleet. But then a full fleet arrived (they were completely unaware that the covenant had found what they wanted weeks ago - the artifact - and were already preparing a massive fleet.) So everything was scrapped.
Maybe when the small fleet that was attacking part of the planet was kept in secret by ONI. Even to the SPARTANs not taking part in the fighting. All evac groups were probably sent to ONI Secured Sites. But when blam! hit the fan and The Covenant attacked New Alexandria, the secret was out.


Doesn't seem to unlikely.

As for the dates:
Like I've said numerous times now: Reach (the game) is a reconstruction made sometime after Halo 3, probably based upon the little data and video they could recover from the destroyed planet of Reach several years later.
Due to this information more than likely being in very bad condition, the result of putting that info together (Reach) isn't nearly as accurate as one would like it to be.
This may cover the inconsistencies in the timeline.
The "bait" idea can still hold up, as Reach in the book also wasn't very well protected, at least not as good as it should have been.

That still doesn't account for PoA being on Reach. I know that. Thats the major gripe.
However if the scenario would be, if Chief (and Linda) did the equivalent of their mission at the end of FoR on Reach itself, and not in space. Them boarding PoA before we arrive, and the Spartan in cryo being a wounded Linda (and Chief simply not showing up in Reach). Then that would still conflict with FoR, and with any logical reconstruction of the events (as Cortana has had info on the PoA, and made it to Earth shortly between CE and H2.) but it would mean the effects of the inconsistenty would be significantly smaller. At least, in my opinion, as I recognize you can't expand a universe without having contradictions with stuff written 10 years ago...


see what i always thought since i finished reach was that the piller of autumn participated in the space battle after 6 helped them take off with john and linda doing their mission then. i know that conflicts with the spartan in cryo now (who istill consider to be linda) but it fixed a lot for me.

  • 10.08.2011 3:46 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

I still don't really see how this fixes the timeline of the POA going out system, being called back, destroying the nav data (that shouldn't be there) then the POA being on Reach (in the game not the novel). That has always been my biggest problem.

I feel as though I've missed something. I haven't been in the Universe for a while it changed in a way that is not to my liking. So if I did miss something, would someone care to explain? Preferably someone knowledgeable.

  • 10.08.2011 3:50 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

PoA is out of the system, comes in, fights for a bit, drops off Chief and Red Team, heads down to Reach, picks up Cortana's fragment, picks up Chief, and then leaves.

That's how I see it.

  • 10.08.2011 3:55 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
PoA is out of the system, comes in, fights for a bit, drops off Chief and Red Team, heads down to Reach, picks up Cortana's fragment, picks up Chief, and then leaves.

That's how I see it.


While Noble Team is there for the entire battle, and a month prior.

  • 10.08.2011 3:58 PM PDT

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