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Subject: Reach major canon inconstencies fixed

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
PoA is out of the system, comes in, fights for a bit, drops off Chief and Red Team, heads down to Reach, picks up Cortana's fragment, picks up Chief, and then leaves.

That's how I see it.
So the PoA was heading outsystem to make its slipstream jump to do operation redflag for a month?

All this new data seems to indicate is that there was a plan to use colonies as a lure to bring High Charity out of hiding.

[Edited on 10.08.2011 4:04 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2011 4:03 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
PoA is out of the system, comes in, fights for a bit, drops off Chief and Red Team, heads down to Reach, picks up Cortana's fragment, picks up Chief, and then leaves.

That's how I see it.
So the PoA was heading outsystem to make its slipstream jump to do operation redflag for a month?


I'm not sure about this, but the ship wasn't completely retrofitted until the 30th right?

  • 10.08.2011 4:04 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

I have hopes for more knoweldge on this soon.

  • 10.08.2011 4:21 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
PoA is out of the system, comes in, fights for a bit, drops off Chief and Red Team, heads down to Reach, picks up Cortana's fragment, picks up Chief, and then leaves.

That's how I see it.
So the PoA was heading outsystem to make its slipstream jump to do operation redflag for a month?


I'm not sure about this, but the ship wasn't completely retrofitted until the 30th right?
I didn't bring any of my books with me and I refuse to flip through halo wiki or whatever. But if that is true the original question remains why didn't the MC and the other SII's fight the Covenant on Reach when they invaded in the game. I'm not trying to start the argument all over again in this thread there is a 120 something page pinned thread for that. I'm just wondering how this info explains that.

Because to me like I said all it seems to say is that there was a plan to use colonies as a decoy.

  • 10.08.2011 4:24 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
PoA is out of the system, comes in, fights for a bit, drops off Chief and Red Team, heads down to Reach, picks up Cortana's fragment, picks up Chief, and then leaves.

That's how I see it.
So the PoA was heading outsystem to make its slipstream jump to do operation redflag for a month?


I'm not sure about this, but the ship wasn't completely retrofitted until the 30th right?
I didn't bring any of my books with me and I refuse to flip through halo wiki or whatever. But if that is true the original question remains why didn't the MC and the other SII's fight the Covenant on Reach when they invaded in the game. I'm not trying to start the argument all over again in this thread there is a 120 something page pinned thread for that. I'm just wondering how this info explains that.

Because to me like I said all it seems to say is that there was a plan to use colonies as a decoy.


If the ONI data drop is true, then I would bet a wide-spread distress call would be nixed. I'm not sure, Reach is still basically a reconstruction.

  • 10.08.2011 4:26 PM PDT


Posted by: privet caboose
If you noticed, the stories in Evolutions are set in the book chronologically. Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss is set after Pariah, which was set 2517-2525(around this area)
Midlothian is set sometime in the 40's, presumably. Considering Dirt ends with the discovery of Reach, and is set after the Midlothian we have to presume that Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss is set after 2525 and before 2552.

I guess that Midlothian is set sometime in the 40's. So Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss occurred anywhere between 2525-2552. I believe that Pariah ended after 2525(there was a bit of a time skip with Soren...) so I place Stomping on the Heels of a fuss in the 30's. Which is why I said, "As early as the 30's"


Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss takes place after Reach has been invaded. I am currently working on placing all Halo media in chronological order, and SotHoaF is stated to take place after the Covenant had invaded Reach.

Also, as to your comment about making a campaign out of the end of FoR and part of FS:
True, it can be done and then it won't take 2 hours.
Still: Reach effectively falls withing 2 hours and then you would get a game with numerous small scale battles and lots of hiding for 3 weeks, before Chief turns up and we get a relatively small last battle.

It could work, but I doubt it would make for a very interesting campaign.

  • 10.09.2011 2:04 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Can you please tell me where you got the date for Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss? There was never any indication it was set after Reach is invaded, and like I said earlier the book is in Chronological order.

And the game would be longer than two hours, and it wouldn't involve a bunch of hiding. I've written how the game would multiple times, but here's just a quick rundown of what I'd expect.

Level 1: Cutscene only level that takes place on the Pillar of Autumn. Main Character is Fred, you see Captain Keyes and John talking, then get split into two groups. Red and Blue.

Level 2: Main Character is Master Chief, you go on the space operation to destroy the NAV data. Along the way you'd see Johnson(thus filling his quota of being in every game.) Mission carries out like it did in the novel.

Level 3: Main Character is Fred, you are in the pelican dropping down to Reach, and then you control Fred as you jump from the Pelican and fall through the air(ALA ODST). You land, and have to regroup with the other Spartans in the forest. Along the way you end up at the generator where Charlie Company was stationed. You split the spartan team into 4 groups. Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta.

Level 4: Delta Company mission. Main Character is Will. You'd leave the generators in a warthog(as described in the book) and you would have to get to Castle Base. The mission would be a lot like Tsavo Highway. You'd be in a warthog most of the mission. Once you get to Castle Base you'd defend it in a firefight esque sequence.

Level 5: Gamma Company mission. Main Character is Grace. You have to fight your way through hordes of Covenant to make your way to where Whitcomb is located. It'd be a relatively long mission requiring you to use warthogs and then fighting through UNSC buildings to reach him. Once you get there, you get overrun and the mission ends.

Level 6: Alpha Company mission. Main Character is Fred. You go on the same mission described in First Strike. You attack a small covenant camp and steal banshees. You have to fly overhead an enormous Covenant camp and assault the Covenant ship looming over head. After Kelly destroys the ship, you have to fight through another encampment of covenant and steal two wraiths. The rest of the mission takes place as you in the wraith try to get to Castle Base.

Level 7: Beta Company mission: Main character is new(since we never learned of their identities.) It's mainly a long firefight mission as the player runs around the base trying to defend it from legions of covenant. There are 11 spartans initially and as your spartan team mates are dying off, eventually you give the order to fall back.

Level 8: Beta Company mission: Give more back story on what happened to them. Original content.

Level 9: Beta Company mission: Give more back story on what happened to them. Original Content.

Level 10: Main Character: Master Chief. There's a small cutscene explaining how chief just returned from Halo, and the player flys a Spirit on Reach. This level would be a lot like New Alexandria. Fires everywhere, Covenant ships glassing everything. Chief's first objective is to fly to Gamma teams location. Once there you fight off the covenant at the base and then they join your team. You fly the spirit to Castle Base. On the way there the play can kill however many troops he likes. Eventually you fly inside of Castle Base and have a short fight alongside Alpha and Delta team. They get in your spirit and fly away.

The game would either end with the last level being Operation FIRST STRIKE, or just them saying they were planning on heading back to Earth.

I feel like this would've been a MUCH better game, considering the fact that it would finally explain to people who didn't read the novels how Chief got back to Earth after Alpha Halo. Not only that, but we get everything we wanted. Captain Keyes, Johnson, Chief, plus all the spartans we know and love from the book. Not only do we get to play the events we read about, we'd also get new content in the form of Beta team.

  • 10.09.2011 8:31 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: privet caboose
Can you please tell me where you got the date for Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss? There was never any indication it was set after Reach is invaded, and like I said earlier the book is in Chronological order.


The Brutes in Stomping On The Heels of a Fuss defected during the attack on Reach, if I am not mistaken.

  • 10.09.2011 10:07 AM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: privet caboose
Can you please tell me where you got the date for Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss? There was never any indication it was set after Reach is invaded, and like I said earlier the book is in Chronological order.


The Brutes in Stomping On The Heels of a Fuss defected during the attack on Reach, if I am not mistaken.


This.
The conflict between the Brutes comes from a few of them being angry about the Chieftain fleeing from the battle of Reach, as they think they will get punished for being cowards.
Also: Evolutions isn't neccecarily written in chronological order. Headhunters would then be placed later in the timeline that SotHoaF, which can't be true as SotHoaF takes place after Reach and Headhunters sometime in the late 2540's to 2551 perhaps (seeing how things like VISR are prototypes in their suites, but standard ODST equipment by 2552. Or the camo which becomes standard for later SPI Mk. 2 Armor in 2552).

As for the campaign:
I'd rather had us going back into space during the last level. Like instead of trying to reach PoA on Reach, there should have been another set of Sabres or something similar.
Then I would have preferred a space equivalent of the Warthog run, in which we try to get to PoA in the midst of a huge spacefight over Reach.
Getting ordered to try and erase the nav data on that docking station, and try and hold out there as the Chief and Linda are on their way.
Then having had Lone Wolf in zero gravity on that docking station, dying there and Chief and Linda showing up, retrieving Cortana and making it back to PoA.

Still inconsistent with FoR, but more exiting and better fitting with the book.

[Edited on 10.09.2011 10:42 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2011 10:39 AM PDT


Posted by: Wazooty
Doesn't explain how exactly the old battle fits in. They want us to believe that the SIIs were completely unaware of what was going on until the 30th, even though there was a giant fleet glassing the planet on the 14th?

I think they still need to clarify: the events that started on the 30th in the book now start on the 14th (when the fleet arrives), and instead of all going down in one day, it is extended to two weeks, and ENDS on the 30th.

If they just told us that, I'd be happy.

Still doesn't explain what MC was doing while the POA was docked, because he sure as hell shouldn't be sleeping when the battle is still happening.

I do like the "bait" idea though. They pulled back all their defenses, tried to make reach look weak. Maybe for example, they did that so the covenant wouldn't feel the need to send in a "real" fleet. But then a full fleet arrived (they were completely unaware that the covenant had found what they wanted weeks ago - the artifact - and were already preparing a massive fleet.) So everything was scrapped.


The SIIs were obviously brought into the battle at some point, Noble Team's dialogue in the final cutscene for the New Alexandria level makes that clear, unless there's a different Spartan Red Team running around. We just don't know when they were brought in to defend Reach. And I think it's quite fair to say that most of the people's reactions in TFoR to finding the Covenant coming to Reach are completely ret-conned and no longer happened. Most if not all of the UNSC military knew that Reach was under attack by the 14th at least.

You do know that seeing Chief in the cryo pod inside the Autumn's hanger at the end of Reach is an easter egg right? It's not really canon, if one wants to take it as canon though it would make far more sense for it to be Linda.

  • 10.15.2011 9:53 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553

Fixed or not. The fact is Bungie gave us the middle finger by making their own story (which is perfectly fine) that doesn't fit at all with the pre-existing canon.

And then they deny that they ruined the canon.......

  • 10.16.2011 2:40 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: cameo_cream
Fixed or not. The fact is Bungie gave us the middle finger by making their own story (which is perfectly fine) that doesn't fit at all with the pre-existing canon.

And then they deny that they ruined the canon.......


I think Bungie is absolved of that allegation when a paper found in the Legendary Edition states what we play is a interpretation of the events of the Battle of Reach.

And please, refrain from using vague statements like "us" when describing your rage. I enjoyed Reach's story and did not get the finger flipped at me.

  • 10.16.2011 2:55 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

potentially one with a high accretion of alien artifacts of non-Covenant origin, such as the volumes recorded on Harvest, Meridian, Arcadia, or even Reach.

Which planet is that from? I dont recall it being from any of the novels.

  • 10.16.2011 3:59 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: cameo_cream
Fixed or not. The fact is Bungie gave us the middle finger by making their own story (which is perfectly fine) that doesn't fit at all with the pre-existing canon.

And then they deny that they ruined the canon.......


I think Bungie is absolved of that allegation when a paper found in the Legendary Edition states what we play is a interpretation of the events of the Battle of Reach.

And please, refrain from using vague statements like "us" when describing your rage. I enjoyed Reach's story and did not get the finger flipped at me.


Reach story was very cliche and boring.

The first level was just bland, it could have been far better had the mission been based around the initial objective of actually fighting insurgents. The covenant were introduced in the most horrible way i can think of.

If i wasn't going to do something related to canon i would have brought in the covenant in at least the end of level two or beginning of three. This would have been done by a small fleet jumping out of slipspace above the area you had been previously removing of insurgents. This create a lot more drama and emotion than just a monotone statement of The covenant are on Reach. Repeat the covenant are on Reach.
Not very exciting.

The majority of the campaign is based around activating switches and fighting corvettes. Fun.

Character development. ODST did this so well, characters personalities were shown and how the interact with each other. Yet Reach...... i felt like i was fighting with a team of ghosts. There were very few moments which showed character personalities (Maybe this was due to fighting along side one other member, throughout the whole campaign).

Sigh. Can't be bothered writing this properly. All i can say which story is your favourite? Excluding CE as most people always think the first is the best.

Moving on-
The main point is they had pre existing canon, Im not saying they should have obeyed it to the letter but they should have at least considered it. In other Halo games this has been done on numerous occasions where they worked around dates or timelines or built things so they made sense.

The whole story of Reach just gives the middle finger to all canon. (If you don't get the middle finger then thats your opinion. You can't deny obvious canon faults). There were no attempts to make things make sense in the game (Apart from the journal, which hardly helped), they just made Reach thinking the book didn't exist (Do you remember the ViDocs? They made a timeline and you're telling me nobody in Bungie thought about canon, or anything similar? No attempt was made to make things make sense).

One thing could have made the community shut up, and thats the invasion date. If it had been on the 30th, a lot more people would have accepted the story. Its in the intro and i remember playing the game and seeing that the first time then ten minutes later fighting the covenant and thinking. Wait, 15th. Invasion is on 30th. Huh?

Anyway i am just rant rant ranting now...... again. I remember why i stopped coming here :P

  • 10.16.2011 4:54 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: HipiO7
potentially one with a high accretion of alien artifacts of non-Covenant origin, such as the volumes recorded on Harvest, Meridian, Arcadia, or even Reach.

Which planet is that from? I dont recall it being from any of the novels.


Onyx. I think. Isn't that why it was quarantined in an area?

  • 10.16.2011 4:56 AM PDT


Posted by: greatestSheriff

Posted by: Wazooty
Doesn't explain how exactly the old battle fits in. They want us to believe that the SIIs were completely unaware of what was going on until the 30th, even though there was a giant fleet glassing the planet on the 14th?

I think they still need to clarify: the events that started on the 30th in the book now start on the 14th (when the fleet arrives), and instead of all going down in one day, it is extended to two weeks, and ENDS on the 30th.

If they just told us that, I'd be happy.

Still doesn't explain what MC was doing while the POA was docked, because he sure as hell shouldn't be sleeping when the battle is still happening.

I do like the "bait" idea though. They pulled back all their defenses, tried to make reach look weak. Maybe for example, they did that so the covenant wouldn't feel the need to send in a "real" fleet. But then a full fleet arrived (they were completely unaware that the covenant had found what they wanted weeks ago - the artifact - and were already preparing a massive fleet.) So everything was scrapped.
Maybe when the small fleet that was attacking part of the planet was kept in secret by ONI. Even to the SPARTANs not taking part in the fighting. All evac groups were probably sent to ONI Secured Sites. But when blam! hit the fan and The Covenant attacked New Alexandria, the secret was out.

The game is supposed to be an interactive documentary of the the battle of reach. It is possible that ONI changed the dates to make themselves look better.

  • 10.16.2011 7:50 AM PDT

The majority of the campaign is based around activating switches and fighting corvettes. Fun.

Kinda fun fact, I think somebody went through and counted the number of buttons/switches you pushed in the other games and it was more, or equal to Reach.

Also, yes the one person had a monotone line. WHY DOES THAT MAKE THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN BAD?

  • 10.16.2011 9:58 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
The majority of the campaign is based around activating switches and fighting corvettes. Fun.

Kinda fun fact, I think somebody went through and counted the number of buttons/switches you pushed in the other games and it was more, or equal to Reach.

Also, yes the one person had a monotone line. WHY DOES THAT MAKE THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN BAD?


Internet logic.
One person states his opinion in a very expressive way, "supports" his opinion with nitpickery and illogical "facts" (because we all know opinions are facts) and everybody who doesn't like the game copy-pastes that opinion.

Yes: the monotone delivery is terrible.
Yes: Reach is not the best Halo ever mad.
Yes: character development was minimal (as if any of the Halos except for Halo 2 showed some real deep character development)

But that doesn't make Reach bad in any way. Don't liking a game doesn't mean the game is bad. People fail to understand that. I for instance don't like Ocarina of Time, but do see its good game...just not up to my tastes.

  • 10.16.2011 10:12 AM PDT

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