Bungie Universe
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Subject: Dear Bungie, You made a mistake, Please Read.

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: superiorarsenal
I'm not contesting that, but didn't John need an upgrade to his neural implant aswell in order to be able to use a "smart" AI.


Yes, he did.


Posted by: thebobafettest
I never said it was the one and only version of it. How did you interpret that?
What I said was correct-the MK V armor that the MC gets is MK V upgraded to house a smart AI.


I'd like to know where this theory came from of two different Mark V armors... I mean, what evidence is there that there is Mark V armor (normal) then Mark V armor (upgraded to house AI)?

Isn't one of the Mark V main features is housing an AI?

It was in The Fall of Reach, I believe, when the Chief has to do the live-fire test.

  • 10.11.2011 3:08 PM PDT

Posted by: thebobafettest
No, I know what he's saying, and my problem with what he's saying is that he is 1) incorrect, 2) Trying to use conjecture and personal opinion as canon, and disregarding actual canon, and 3) constantly getting frustrated with people that don't agree with what he posted in his thread.


The "average" Spartan III had the better augmentation procedures done compared to the Spartan II's (as the enhancement procedure and technology involved had advanced to be more effective, less dependent on the 'select' DNA, and safer than the SII augmentors, as not a a single Spartan III died during the Augmentation procedures, compared with almost half of the Spartan II's that died or suffered debilitating side effects.)

The SIII training time was reduced, as to field more Spartans faster, but I believe in GoO Kurt says that it is a more intense training regimen.

Basically, the 'average' SIII would be roughly equivalent to a SII with the same experience and equipment.


That argument isn't disregarding any canon, the Spartan II candidates are superior to the average candidates from amongst the Spartan IIIs. I'm not saying that the Spartan IIIs suck or that they couldn't compare to the Spartans IIs and would lose any fight against them, because that's not true. The Spartan IIs however do have something that makes them better than the SIIIs, if there wasn't anything setting the Spartan IIs apart from the rest of the human population at large then anyone would have been chosen for the program, which is not the case. And if all of the SIIIs are exactly the same in every possible way as the SIIs, then why did Kurt mention to Mendez that they sometimes got kids that Halsey would have chosen and they were the ones who got Mjolner and all the other equipment an SII has?

What does having better procedures for augmentations have to do with the issue? The Spartan II candidates weren't chosen just because their genetics would work best with augmentations. They were chosen because they were the absolute best of the best that a human could possibly be. There is still something that sets the people who fit Halsey's specs for being a Spartan II apart from everyone else. And the kids who found their way into the Spartan III program and fit all of the markers were taken from their companies and fielded as Spartan "IIs".

The issuing of MJOLNIR has nothing to do with their possible conscription into the SII program if it had continued, and everything to do with unit/individual need, proven ability(i.e., surviving previous missions), and to incease the combat efficiency and survivability of the SIII operators.

Again, SIII's having MJOLNIR does not have to do with the UNSC deciding that only the SIII's with the 'select' DNA would be equipped with it, in fact it has to do with individual ability and performance, which has nothing to do with DNA.

Think about it. You could have a Spartan III who was the strongest, fastest, smartest, survived all of his battles, but wasn't in that 'select' DNA pool.
By your logic, he wouldn't be issued MJOLNIR because his DNA wasn't on a good enough level, and it would be given to some other Spartan III, who, while being a excellent soldier, wasn't on par with his comrade ability wise.

Doesn't make much sense, does it?


I never said that SIIIs who have really proven their worth would not be issued Mjolner and better equipment. I'm saying though that if they're of the same caliber as the IIs right off the bat (IE matching all the genetic, mental, and whatever other requirements there were) without having to survive multiple missions, then they are considered worth the effort and money to outfit them in Mjolner.

An SIII who really proved their worth probably would have been made into a Spartan "II". Heck, the kids who match parameters for the IIs might not even be assured Mjolner, they'd certainly be candidates to receive it, but that alone wouldn't be enough. I'm sure they'd be put through special tests and who knows what to dig up the very best from amongst them. Kurt and Mendez could only get so many Spartan "IIs" without attracting to much attention to what they were doing as the letter implies that Ackerson and others in ONI wouldn't be too pleased with the expenditures spent on the armor.

I don't know what 'advertising material' you're talking about. If you're talking about the Noble Team Letter here on Bnet, all that's implying is that NOBLE and some other SIII's are on par ability wise with some of the SII's. Never does it mention anything about DNA.

I'm talking about marketing/advertising material in general. It's all canon until something higher on the scale contradicts it, you originally said that the letter was not canon and I was correcting you.

And no, the letter is not talking about their abilities, that's not what got the Spartan IIs into the Spartan Program, not ability alone anyway. Halsey was not picking on ability, she had very specific parameters for who would get into the SII program and who wouldn't. Why say "you know as well as I do that we wind up with some she would have chosen", the "she" being Halsey, if they were talking about ability which is not what made Halsey choose those who wound up in the SII project? DNA requirement and other factors were exactly what Halsey was looking for in her Spartan IIs.

  • 10.11.2011 4:31 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression


Posted by: thebobafettest

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr

[quote]Posted by: RKOSNAKE


...REGARDING THE DNA...

Yes, all Spartan III's are capable of wearing MJOLNIR. They weren't all issued it because it would be too expensive to make that many sets of armor.
BUT, they handed out MJOLNIR to the best qualified Spartan III's, to ensure their money didn't go to waste. These Spartan III's had the best quality DNA, DNA that was "Spartan II quality".
Hence, NOBLE TEAM was created.

I thought that would be a common sense thing, but I guess I did have to explain it.
(You gunna hand out expensive battle armor? Give it to the best qualified. Duh.)

Clearly, none of you read my thread where I STATE THAT III'S ARE CAPABLE OF WEARING MJOLNIR. Seriously people, read the links before commenting.

What is with you constantly promoting your thread?

I read it.

It raised some good points, but also promoted some incorrect ones.
For instance, you don't have any sources for your information. Most, if not all, is conjecture on your part, if not you just deciding that some of the SIII's had the higher 'quality' DNA.



Again, MJOLNIR use/issue has absolutely NOTHING to do with the 'higher quality DNA'.

The reason that only the Spartan II's were originally able to use the MJOLNIR armor was because of their augmentations, which were able to occur because of their select DNA.
Those augmentations made it possible to use the MJOLNIR armor, as without those enhancements they would have been destroyed, much like the marine testing the armor in the novels.


By the time the Spartan III's were created, the augmentation procedures had advanced to the stage that a wider genetic set could be used in the enhancement procedures, thus making the SIII's augmentation wise, on the same level as the SII's, and thus equally able to use MJOLNIR PAA.

Give me a canon source that says that NOBLE had a 'better' set of DNA, which was why they were issued MJOLNIR.

Can't find one, right?

The reason NOBLE was issued it was because they had survived countless operations, and their usefulness and worth to the UNSC went up enough that they were issued MJOLNIR to increase their combat effectiveness and survivability.



^ This.
This guy is the only one here with common sense.

  • 10.11.2011 5:04 PM PDT

117


Posted by: JustAReachPlaya
They are SPARTAN III's, but they are much more advanced than normal SPARTAN III's. I'm not getting to in depth with this, but that's just the basic.

Hence, NOBLE team

  • 10.12.2011 9:23 AM PDT

☆☆☆Does anyone even read this?☆☆☆

||DeviantArt || File Share||

Posted by: snip3r dud33
Honestly, this is a good cover up for all the idiots who won't know its a cover up .

Games are canon first, then books.

  • 10.12.2011 11:18 AM PDT

Once again, the books can suck a fat one. They have no bearing on Halo games and the stories told in those Halo games.

Games were made first, thats the canon, the books are side stories.

  • 10.12.2011 12:13 PM PDT

Game Canon overrules Book Canon.

Argument is void. :)

  • 10.12.2011 12:21 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: OrderedComa
That argument isn't disregarding any canon, the Spartan II candidates are superior to the average candidates from amongst the Spartan IIIs. I'm not saying that the Spartan IIIs suck or that they couldn't compare to the Spartans IIs and would lose any fight against them, because that's not true. The Spartan IIs however do have something that makes them better than the SIIIs, if there wasn't anything setting the Spartan IIs apart from the rest of the human population at large then anyone would have been chosen for the program, which is not the case. And if all of the SIIIs are exactly the same in every possible way as the SIIs, then why did Kurt mention to Mendez that they sometimes got kids that Halsey would have chosen and they were the ones who got Mjolner and all the other equipment an SII has?

What does having better procedures for augmentations have to do with the issue? The Spartan II candidates weren't chosen just because their genetics would work best with augmentations. They were chosen because they were the absolute best of the best that a human could possibly be. There is still something that sets the people who fit Halsey's specs for being a Spartan II apart from everyone else. And the kids who found their way into the Spartan III program and fit all of the markers were taken from their companies and fielded as Spartan "IIs".

The part of the letter that you are talking about-

So Ackerson wants his heads--and we'll give them to him--just not all of them.
You know as well as I do that we wind up with some that she would have chosen--
not just kids unlucky enough to survive a glassing. Orders are still being followed
and those Spartans are in the field, but they are armed as SPARTANS--and they are
making a difference.


Halsey didn't just choose by genetics. Neither did the people in the Spartan III program. All of the other factors (Behavior, health, etc.) were also weighted heavily in the selection process.

Also, any Spartan III's that met these 'markers' wouldn't have been withdrawn from the 'regular' III's and be completely fielded as II's.
They would have been kept where they were.

Again, just because they had these 'markers' wouldn't make them superior soldiers, all DNA does is influence, not determine.

If you are so convinced by this part of the theory, can you provide a definitive and direct link or source that addresses that?


I never said that SIIIs who have really proven their worth would not be issued Mjolner and better equipment. I'm saying though that if they're of the same caliber as the IIs right off the bat (IE matching all the genetic, mental, and whatever other requirements there were) without having to survive multiple missions, then they are considered worth the effort and money to outfit them in Mjolner.

An SIII who really proved their worth probably would have been made into a Spartan "II". Heck, the kids who match parameters for the IIs might not even be assured Mjolner, they'd certainly be candidates to receive it, but that alone wouldn't be enough. I'm sure they'd be put through special tests and who knows what to dig up the very best from amongst them. Kurt and Mendez could only get so many Spartan "IIs" without attracting to much attention to what they were doing as the letter implies that Ackerson and others in ONI wouldn't be too pleased with the expenditures spent on the armor.


All of the SIII's that were outfitted with MJOLNIR earned it by first surviving countless engagements, unit need, individual need, and the fact that they had become more valuable because of their actions and combat prowess-none of which can be determined by genetic tests, or those DNA markers you so love.

Why do special tests when all they need to do is find the best performing SIII's? Turns out that's exactly what they did. Find the best Spartans, and give them an extra edge.



I'm talking about marketing/advertising material in general. It's all canon until something higher on the scale contradicts it, you originally said that the letter was not canon and I was correcting you.

And no, the letter is not talking about their abilities, that's not what got the Spartan IIs into the Spartan Program, not ability alone anyway. Halsey was not picking on ability, she had very specific parameters for who would get into the SII program and who wouldn't. Why say "you know as well as I do that we wind up with some she would have chosen", the "she" being Halsey, if they were talking about ability which is not what made Halsey choose those who wound up in the SII project? DNA requirement and other factors were exactly what Halsey was looking for in her Spartan IIs.

I never said that the letter was not canon.

Also, genetics wasn't the only quality she was looking for-remember, DNA can influence a persons growth and development, but it is not set in stone. There are hundreds of other things that affect a person. You could have parents that were both 5' tall, and you could be well over 6'.

Those 'other factors' were part of the selection procedure for the Spartan II's, and if a potential Spartan had some of those disqualifying qualities, or didn't have some of the ones she was looking for, then they weren't 'conscripted'.

An example-
Say one of the potential Spartan II's had all of the genetic flags for a perfect candidate, but when Halsey and Keyes visited for a closer examination, it turned out that the candidate was very ill with a serious disease.

That candidate would not have been conscripted, even though genetically they were a perfect Spartan.
(I believe that a part of Halsey's Journal covers this a bit more in depth.)



Also, those factors were what Halsey was looking for, but not what Kurt and Mendez were looking for.
They had their own factors, qualities, and attributes that they were looking for.

All that comment means is that some of the SIII candidates possibly could have been selected by Halsey for the Spartan project.

Also, nowhere does it say that those candidates that could have been selected by Halsey were the ones that they were withdrawing from the SIII program into special ops.
They are speaking of the SIII program as a whole.




Finally, again, I ask you to provide me with a concise, direct, and definitive source that clearly states that the only reason that NOBLE or similar groups/outfits was outfitted with MJOLNIR was because of their superior genetics.


[Edited on 10.12.2011 6:43 PM PDT]

  • 10.12.2011 6:41 PM PDT
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Genetics was the initial/definitive marker. All S-IIs had to have the correct genetic markers before being even looked at. From there, other factors were taken into consideration like state of mind and body.

"All that comment means is that some of the SIII candidates possibly could have been selected by Halsey for the Spartan project"

Too even be considered anywhere close to a candidate, they needed the correct genes. If the markers for selection were simply leadership qualities and the like, they would have had millions of candidates. The BIGGEST and most determining factor was their genes, as that was the one that seperated them from the billions of other humans in the first place.

  • 10.13.2011 6:07 PM PDT

i never said that they COULDN'T use it, i just said that they were not issued Mjolnir.

  • 10.27.2011 11:02 AM PDT

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