- thebobafettest
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- Exalted Legendary Member
Hey, now!
This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.
Posted by: OrderedComa
That argument isn't disregarding any canon, the Spartan II candidates are superior to the average candidates from amongst the Spartan IIIs. I'm not saying that the Spartan IIIs suck or that they couldn't compare to the Spartans IIs and would lose any fight against them, because that's not true. The Spartan IIs however do have something that makes them better than the SIIIs, if there wasn't anything setting the Spartan IIs apart from the rest of the human population at large then anyone would have been chosen for the program, which is not the case. And if all of the SIIIs are exactly the same in every possible way as the SIIs, then why did Kurt mention to Mendez that they sometimes got kids that Halsey would have chosen and they were the ones who got Mjolner and all the other equipment an SII has?
What does having better procedures for augmentations have to do with the issue? The Spartan II candidates weren't chosen just because their genetics would work best with augmentations. They were chosen because they were the absolute best of the best that a human could possibly be. There is still something that sets the people who fit Halsey's specs for being a Spartan II apart from everyone else. And the kids who found their way into the Spartan III program and fit all of the markers were taken from their companies and fielded as Spartan "IIs".
The part of the letter that you are talking about-
So Ackerson wants his heads--and we'll give them to him--just not all of them.
You know as well as I do that we wind up with some that she would have chosen--
not just kids unlucky enough to survive a glassing. Orders are still being followed
and those Spartans are in the field, but they are armed as SPARTANS--and they are
making a difference.
Halsey didn't just choose by genetics. Neither did the people in the Spartan III program. All of the other factors (Behavior, health, etc.) were also weighted heavily in the selection process.
Also, any Spartan III's that met these 'markers' wouldn't have been withdrawn from the 'regular' III's and be completely fielded as II's.
They would have been kept where they were.
Again, just because they had these 'markers' wouldn't make them superior soldiers, all DNA does is influence, not determine.
If you are so convinced by this part of the theory, can you provide a definitive and direct link or source that addresses that?
I never said that SIIIs who have really proven their worth would not be issued Mjolner and better equipment. I'm saying though that if they're of the same caliber as the IIs right off the bat (IE matching all the genetic, mental, and whatever other requirements there were) without having to survive multiple missions, then they are considered worth the effort and money to outfit them in Mjolner.
An SIII who really proved their worth probably would have been made into a Spartan "II". Heck, the kids who match parameters for the IIs might not even be assured Mjolner, they'd certainly be candidates to receive it, but that alone wouldn't be enough. I'm sure they'd be put through special tests and who knows what to dig up the very best from amongst them. Kurt and Mendez could only get so many Spartan "IIs" without attracting to much attention to what they were doing as the letter implies that Ackerson and others in ONI wouldn't be too pleased with the expenditures spent on the armor.
All of the SIII's that were outfitted with MJOLNIR earned it by first surviving countless engagements, unit need, individual need, and the fact that they had become more valuable because of their actions and combat prowess-none of which can be determined by genetic tests, or those DNA markers you so love.
Why do special tests when all they need to do is find the best performing SIII's? Turns out that's exactly what they did. Find the best Spartans, and give them an extra edge.
I'm talking about marketing/advertising material in general. It's all canon until something higher on the scale contradicts it, you originally said that the letter was not canon and I was correcting you.
And no, the letter is not talking about their abilities, that's not what got the Spartan IIs into the Spartan Program, not ability alone anyway. Halsey was not picking on ability, she had very specific parameters for who would get into the SII program and who wouldn't. Why say "you know as well as I do that we wind up with some she would have chosen", the "she" being Halsey, if they were talking about ability which is not what made Halsey choose those who wound up in the SII project? DNA requirement and other factors were exactly what Halsey was looking for in her Spartan IIs.
I never said that the letter was not canon.
Also, genetics wasn't the only quality she was looking for-remember, DNA can influence a persons growth and development, but it is not set in stone. There are hundreds of other things that affect a person. You could have parents that were both 5' tall, and you could be well over 6'.
Those 'other factors' were part of the selection procedure for the Spartan II's, and if a potential Spartan had some of those disqualifying qualities, or didn't have some of the ones she was looking for, then they weren't 'conscripted'.
An example-
Say one of the potential Spartan II's had all of the genetic flags for a perfect candidate, but when Halsey and Keyes visited for a closer examination, it turned out that the candidate was very ill with a serious disease.
That candidate would not have been conscripted, even though genetically they were a perfect Spartan.
(I believe that a part of Halsey's Journal covers this a bit more in depth.)
Also, those factors were what Halsey was looking for, but not what Kurt and Mendez were looking for.
They had their own factors, qualities, and attributes that they were looking for.
All that comment means is that some of the SIII candidates possibly could have been selected by Halsey for the Spartan project.
Also, nowhere does it say that those candidates that could have been selected by Halsey were the ones that they were withdrawing from the SIII program into special ops.
They are speaking of the SIII program as a whole.
Finally, again, I ask you to provide me with a concise, direct, and definitive source that clearly states that the only reason that NOBLE or similar groups/outfits was outfitted with MJOLNIR was because of their superior genetics.
[Edited on 10.12.2011 6:43 PM PDT]