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Subject: So we're in a Debate about canon.
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We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand and of overwhelming force on the other.

In a RP forum, I said that a Sangheili Zealot and Fleet Admiral could kill Fred-104. The person disagreeing with me says that in Halo games Chief kills Zealots all the time, and Forge killed the Arbiter.

They guy keeps saying how Fred would own this Elite, and I'm saying that Fred really never owns Elites, he just narrowly escapes all the time.

Thoughts on Fred vs an Elite Zealot armed with an Energy Sword in CQB?

  • 10.08.2011 8:27 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Fred would come out on top.

Chief has always managed to deal with Elites in close quarters, even when unarmed. Fred is arguably better than the chief, so Fred could probably hold his own too.

Fred took on multiple elites with nothing more than his combat knives and won.(The Package.)



[Edited on 10.08.2011 8:29 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2011 8:29 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

I am...whimsical today.

Would depend on the skill of the Zealot, I'd suggest. They're generally the more skilled of the Elites, but their skills will still vary Zealot to Zealot.

  • 10.08.2011 8:31 PM PDT

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

Elites.

Obviously.

  • 10.08.2011 8:40 PM PDT

Easily the Elite.

Chief almost died against a MINOR on Gamma Station, I'm sure a Spartan that is SLIGHTLY better than John in CQC would die at the hands of a HIGHLY trained Elite Zealot that is FAR superior than a minor.

  • 10.08.2011 8:47 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

A Zealot and Admiral are almost equal to a Spartan in terms if skill. Two of them should be able to put up a tough fight for Fred. If the Law of Inverse Ninjutsu comes into play (which it always does) Fred takes the fight easilly.

  • 10.08.2011 8:53 PM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999
A Zealot and Admiral are almost equal to a Spartan in terms if skill. Two of them should be able to put up a tough fight for Fred. If the Law of Inverse Ninjutsu comes into play (which it always does) Fred takes the fight easilly.
Although, a Minor is just as strong as a Spartan II in terms of strength. With more skill comes more strength, meaning the higher ranks are stronger than a Spartan II. Although this isn't confirmed.

  • 10.08.2011 8:56 PM PDT
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*sigh*

Again people brining up the event with the minor. In that instance Master chief was fighting in zero-gee with an enemy he had never come across before according to the book(Which has sinse been changed so that whole instance is now invalid).

Must I point out jai was evenly matched with Thel in a direct confrontation? Must I also point out Thel is one of the most capable Elites and that it was never said that Jai had any extrordinary(For a S-II) H2H skills? And where exactly does it say Fred is a H2H specialist? I thought that was Will.

  • 10.08.2011 8:56 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

My money is on Fred. The reason being is that evidently all the Elites that have ever been faced by the Spartans have been unsuccessful thus far in significantly reducing the Spartan-IIs since the beginning of the war right up until the final year of the war - a full 27 years in which only 4 or something Spartan-IIs have been killed (Sam, Solomon, Sheila and this guy). If the Sangheili were so much better in every way, then this would not be the case. People saying Elites have got their work cut out for them in the explaining department.

  • 10.08.2011 9:05 PM PDT
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We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand and of overwhelming force on the other.

He posted this as evidence.

  • 10.08.2011 9:07 PM PDT
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Gamertag: J7XD
New BNET: J7XD


Posted by: privet caboose
Fred took on multiple elites with nothing more than his combat knives and won.(The Package.)



Not considered canon.


Posted by: mojeda101
Easily the Elite.

Chief almost died against a MINOR on Gamma Station, I'm sure a Spartan that is SLIGHTLY better than John in CQC would die at the hands of a HIGHLY trained Elite Zealot that is FAR superior than a minor.


/thread

  • 10.08.2011 9:34 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.

Never mind....Caboose did a much better job of explaining it.

[Edited on 10.08.2011 9:51 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2011 9:38 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.


Posted by: HeftyPredator X

Posted by: privet caboose
Fred took on multiple elites with nothing more than his combat knives and won.(The Package.)



Not considered canon.


It is canon. Frankie has stated everything in Halo Legends, except for the Odd One Out is canon. Provide me a source where he says it ISN'T canon, and I'll eat my hat.


Posted by: mojeda101
Easily the Elite.

Chief almost died against a MINOR on Gamma Station, I'm sure a Spartan that is SLIGHTLY better than John in CQC would die at the hands of a HIGHLY trained Elite Zealot that is FAR superior than a minor.


/thread


You can't "/thread" based on one instance. As stated earlier in this thread, Jai took on Thel Vadumee(The Arbiter) and they were evenly matched. Thel is practically above the Zealot rank in terms of skill. And Jai isn't particularly strong.

  • 10.08.2011 9:49 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: mojeda101
Although, a Minor is just as strong as a Spartan II in terms of strength. With more skill comes more strength, meaning the higher ranks are stronger than a Spartan II. Although this isn't confirmed.

How exactly does more strength come from being more experienced? That makes little sense to me.

  • 10.08.2011 10:09 PM PDT

I always believed the Spartans weren't portrayed as strong and and skilled in the way they should have been to differentiate them from the normal soldiers more.
This is why I really like The Package, except for Chief almost getting killed by the Zealot in their duel. Also, the Halo Wars Spartans vs. Elites cutscene.

[Edited on 10.08.2011 11:21 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2011 11:20 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Ruby of the Blue
I always believed the Spartans weren't portrayed as strong and and skilled in the way they should have been to differentiate them from the normal soldiers more.
This is why I really like The Package, except for Chief almost getting killed by the Zealot in their duel. Also, the Halo Wars Spartans vs. Elites cutscene.


Actually, it was a Major.

  • 10.08.2011 11:25 PM PDT
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Gamertag: J7XD
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Posted by: privet caboose

Posted by: HeftyPredator X

Posted by: privet caboose
Fred took on multiple elites with nothing more than his combat knives and won.(The Package.)



Not considered canon.


It is canon. Frankie has stated everything in Halo Legends, except for the Odd One Out is canon. Provide me a source where he says it ISN'T canon, and I'll eat my hat.


Posted by: mojeda101
Easily the Elite.

Chief almost died against a MINOR on Gamma Station, I'm sure a Spartan that is SLIGHTLY better than John in CQC would die at the hands of a HIGHLY trained Elite Zealot that is FAR superior than a minor.


/thread


You can't "/thread" based on one instance. As stated earlier in this thread, Jai took on Thel Vadumee(The Arbiter) and they were evenly matched. Thel is practically above the Zealot rank in terms of skill. And Jai isn't particularly strong.

Alright, I researched a bit, and looks like it is considered canon. My bad.

Also, it really just depends on the circumstances, it seems. Gravity levels, weapons, shielding, allies present, etc.

  • 10.08.2011 11:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: mojeda101
Easily the Elite.

Chief almost died against a MINOR on Gamma Station, I'm sure a Spartan that is SLIGHTLY better than John in CQC would die at the hands of a HIGHLY trained Elite Zealot that is FAR superior than a minor.


You remember though, that was his first experience fighting one. Later on, he dukes it out with what I believe is a Spec-ops on the bridge of Aesendant Justice. He did have help, but it shows that he had progressed in some manner of fighting them in CQB.

Generally, a Spartan has the strength of a Major on the charts, but tactically, they rank higher up on the charts. With Elites, the higher ranked they are, the stronger and tougher they are, with tactics coming in with a mix.


Really, it would all depend on the situation. But, my vote goes to Fred.

[Edited on 10.08.2011 11:35 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2011 11:34 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.

Too much luck and Situation factor.

For example, John Forge should have been butchered and eaten by the Arbiter. But he wasn't, was he?

  • 10.08.2011 11:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
Too much luck and Situation factor.

For example, John Forge should have been butchered and eaten by the Arbiter. But he wasn't, was he?


Ci. Senior Ripa twas arrogant. Mr. Forge used this as an act of subterfuge.

  • 10.09.2011 12:00 AM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.


Posted by: Sandtrap

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr
Too much luck and Situation factor.

For example, John Forge should have been butchered and eaten by the Arbiter. But he wasn't, was he?


Ci. Senior Ripa twas arrogant. Mr. Forge used this as an act of subterfuge.


Exactly. There's that unknown factor that changed the outcome of the fight entirely.

  • 10.09.2011 12:05 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Ruby of the Blue
This is why I really like The Package, except for Chief almost getting killed by the Zealot in their duel.


Major actually. And seriously Ruby, do you have a Spartan fetish or something? Spartans aren't invincible, they can lose and die.

  • 10.09.2011 12:51 AM PDT

Depends on situation. Though a fleet admiral zealot isn't the same as your generic zealot, they are typically more skilled.

While I agree that Elites are not "better in every way." I don't think the reverse is true either. It's kinda like stormtroopers. They are elite soldiers, but they are constantly getting mowed down by the heroes. Doesn't make them worse :/.

  • 10.09.2011 1:02 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

It all depends on the situation.

  • 10.09.2011 7:13 AM PDT

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