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  • Subject: If humans were in the covenant...
Subject: If humans were in the covenant...

I woke up one to find my self in a river of honey. Turns out Osama Bin Laden was right.


Posted by: Wolverfrog
All those saying the Sangheili/any other Covenant species are more intelligent than humanity are deluding themselves. All the Sangheili's technology? Derived from Forerunner technology.

They never developed impulse drives themselves, never created their own weaponry -- I'd honestly be surprised if they even had advanced mathematics.

We created everything from scratch. Consider how longer the Covenant has been in existence. What is it, 5000 years? They've had space-travel all that time.

We've had it 300 years in the Haloverse and already nearly match the Covenant's technology off our own bat.

Humanity is the most intelligent race in the Halo universe, in my opinion.
A race has to have a some what high level of intelligence to reverse engineer. Some of our modern tech is reverse engineered from something else, by the way.

  • 10.10.2011 11:14 AM PDT

"We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds...'
I suppose we all thought that one way or another."
- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Posted by: OrderedComa
I think we'd probably fall somewhere between the Jackals and Grunts, or be placed higher in the pecking order like the Brutes and serve as minor leaders in combat positions or something like that. And it would not surprise me if Humanity caused a schism within the Covenant or something, we don't take liking to being a position of subordination akin to slaver, so it would not surprise me if Humanity eventually led some sort of rebellion.

And due to the whole instability of the Covenant's political system we would not be without allies. There'd probably be plenty of Grunts who would work with humanity in exchange for better treatment, the Jackals would probably be able to be persuaded to join in exchange for goods they were ordinarily not permitted to own under Covenant rule, Brutes might join in due to their adversarial position with the Elites (the Brutes joining is a very big maybe that probably would not happen), and who knows, more might join but I don't really know. In any case I'd be willing to bet that if Humanity had been inducted into the Covenant and were able to recruit other client species to rebellion that Humanity's forces would be out the Covenant loyalists. We've always been smarter than them when it comes to a technological and strategic standpoint and the only real reason we were losing the war in the real Halo story is because our tech was much less developed. So with the same technology, and our ability to make it better, we'd probably end up destroying the Covenant and winning against them.
I agree with this post 100%

  • 10.10.2011 11:19 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
They wouldn't be able to "easily do it" or else they wouldn't be having issues now.

They had that tech Eons ago; now when we talk about the "middle ages" setting us back that is nothing compared to how long it is going to take the elites to get back on track. even then it wouldn't be from the ground up, they would be incorporating forerunner,covenant, and human tech.


Key word in my post being "given enough time" :P

And they already have advanced tech at their disposal, all it takes is learning how it functions and bingo, they have a start. It will take them a good long while to even come close to really being a galactic power or anything close to that, but with having Forerunner tech at their disposal I don't see it taking centuries or anything like that to relearn some basics and get a start on rebuilding their strength.

  • 10.10.2011 11:24 AM PDT
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Well we WOULD get covenant ships. Also the brutes were given their own armor by the covenant as the elites and grunts

  • 10.10.2011 11:28 AM PDT

"We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds...'
I suppose we all thought that one way or another."
- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Also it would be interesting to see what would of happened if the Covenant accepted humanity as the Reclaimers. We would probably take on more political roles but...I don't think the Prophets would like the competition. Ultimately, it could case a war anyway. Another Schism of some sort. But who would take each side?

But anyways, I think with humanity no matter what happens, a war of some sort will always be inevitable. There will always be conflict of some sort.

  • 10.10.2011 11:32 AM PDT
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343 should make a game where we are part of the covenant and we fight other made up aliens or the flood

  • 10.10.2011 11:34 AM PDT

im a firin my lazer!

We'd be about the Jackals, weaker in numbers compared to the covenants other enemies like the flood (look at how easily we die against flood infection forms) but we are strong in numbers.

  • 10.10.2011 11:35 AM PDT
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I wish humans were stronger... our tactics are the best of all species and intelligence too but we are physically weak compared to them

  • 10.10.2011 11:37 AM PDT

the covenant is badass,
they have the best technology and make humans look like -blam!-.

it would be cool if in halo 4 that they had a level in the campaign that would recall how the covenant was created... (how the rings were created)

  • 10.10.2011 11:46 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Woody31494
the covenant is badass,
they have the best technology and make humans look like -blam!-.

it would be cool if in halo 4 that they had a level in the campaign that would recall how the covenant was created... (how the rings were created)


*Massive Facestar*

How about you look up some of the commentary from the halo 2 collectors edition and read the books to find out how the covenant was formed.

And that isn't what will be in halo 4.

  • 10.10.2011 11:48 AM PDT

sorry to say but elites are stronger and have greater tactics, they are like a brotherhood. while spartans have more skill but are more solitude then elites.

  • 10.10.2011 12:33 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I agree with Wolvers. People in this forum are bloating the Covenant up to be something so much more than what the story dictates. The most problematic issue with all the "Covenant/Elites are so much more intelligent" statements is this: If they are more intelligent, then why are they not the Reclaimers rather than Humanity? A more intelligent race has a better chance of finding the cure to the Flood, as are their chances of successfully interpreting the Mantle and applying it to the rest of the galaxy far higher in the long run. They would rise to power faster and thus secure the galaxy quicker from any threats, as well as having their own survival in the long run more assured than the others so that they can get a chance to obtain their responsibilities. Clearly this is not a position that you would give to average Joe. It is a serious responsibility that could make or break an entire galaxy. The species with the greatest potential would have to be chosen otherwise, if you do choose average Joe and they are wiped out by a more aggressive intelligent species, then the Mantle is doomed to be abandoned with no one to uphold it. But you people believe that it was given to a race who are, by all means, inferior in every way to the various other races in the galaxy that are by principle far more likely to do a better job, and are more likely to get the job in the first place over the competition from frauds? Either the Forerunners are a very stupid and blind sighted race who put no thought into their planning of the galaxy's future, or your interpretations are just skewed.

I would have to say that the Sangheili are out in the first round. If anything it would be between Humanity and the Prophets. Everyone else has some serious flaw that strikes them down. (Brutes - Blind rage, Grunts - Fear, Jackals - Averice, Drones - Apathy etc) For a start, the Sangheili are fascists. Their culture embodies much of what previous fascist states in the past have boasted:

~ Supremacy of the State and supremacy of the Race (Or in this case the species) to the point where it is profusely romanticized.
~ A contempt for the intellectual; Anti-intellectualism. (It is explicitly stated that the Sangheili view only the warrior as having any sort of honor.)
~ Over-emphasis on virility for men; painting them as warriors, and stereotypical feminine qualities for woman; painting them as basically staying at home to raise children. (Which is true for the Sangheili also...) And above all is the obsession with having a perfect fit "Master Race" almost, which leads to the views that outsiders are impure/weak/dangerous to the stability of the state, along with the sick, the infirm, the elderly, the retarded and the disabled. (Which sometimes leads to eugenics based upon involuntary euthanasia, which the Sangheili practice without shame on their own young who are deemed "too weak" at birth)
~ Views a warrior culture mentality with great admiration, and the conquest of others as necessary. This Imperialism leads to slavery which the Sangheili are quite happy to commit.

I am sorry but Humanity at large broke free of this medieval barbarism decades, maybe even centuries ago with the birth of the enlightenment in the west. The Sangheili are still chin deep in it thousands of years after they first traveled to the stars. Their ethics and morality appears to be so poorly developed that if it were on Earth it would be lumped in with Na­zism. Add to it their credulity and ignorance, their pride and chauvinism and I cannot see how this is an intelligent race at all. They do what they are told to do and they say what they are told to say and they do not think about it, or the consequences. There is another thing like that, which can be so easily manipulated. We call it a puppet. More likely, they are apparent psuedo-intellectuals and the result of what happens when a very primitive and aggressive species are given technology, resources and influence that they are not ready to handle properly nor are supposed to have yet.

And to clear up one final thing with this banal idea, the Sangheili were, at most, a Tier 3 race before the Covenant. So do not say that they had advanced technology beyond Humans because they did not. Plasma weaponry, shields, gravity manipulation, advanced metallurgy, advanced slipspace navigation, power armour - the whole lot is taken from Forerunner designs during and after their war with the Prophets. Even their prized Energy Sword is stolen Forerunner technology.

I could go on about how the totality of their race being, not just religious, but religious fundamentalists being a strike to their so called intellect as well but I won't drag the religion debate into this fully. Suffice to say, it looks like they have had no great influential minds like Socrates, Spinoza or Russel. Or if they did then they have most likely all been killed by mad mobs like this or this. All ideas of badass and intelligent Sangheili certainly evaporate for me when you put two and two together and come to realize that the Sangheili did this for 27 years against Humanity.

And before I get hit with the "Humanity aren't always the best" comments: No, they are not. However if you can find me one other thing that Humanity at large (Not Spartans, Humanity at large. Spartans are too ridiculously small to represent anything) has that they can triumph against the Covenant then I will consider it. Not even this "Determination" theme that First Strike tells us is true because Human determination and ingenuity did not really win the war for them and was not ever going to, they got a big fat handout from the race that was butchering them. <sarcasm>What a wonderful message that is!</sarcasm>

[Edited on 10.10.2011 1:16 PM PDT]

  • 10.10.2011 12:34 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Restock the food nipple.

  • 10.10.2011 2:36 PM PDT

J.P

i dont believe the covenant would give us any weapons,or armor, wed have to prove ourselves,also im not sure if this is correct but the humans are more of a brother species to the forerunners,we also fought them

  • 10.10.2011 4:55 PM PDT

J.P

spartans were trained to work together

  • 10.10.2011 4:56 PM PDT

Quit -blam!- stalking me you weirdo.

Above the elites and brutes for sure, being reclaimers and all, and combat wouldn't be a problem, because who are we going to fight? The flood wouldn't have been released, and the rings would have been activated sooner on.

  • 10.10.2011 9:06 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.


Posted by: Raviruga
We probably wouldn't be soldiers in the Covenant at all, infact we may fulfill a role similar to the San'Shyuum due to Humanity's status as Reclaimers. Knowing how overzealous the Covenant is I doubt they would sacrifice the closest living link to there Gods.
The Covenant declared war on humanity due to the fact that the Prophets of Truth, Mercy and Regret discovered humanities link to the Forerunners. If that ever got out the Covenant would have fallen apart. The only way humanity would have been accepted into the Covenant would be if the prophets never discovered that link, and therefore Humanity would have shared multiple roles due to how advanced the UNSC was.

[Edited on 10.11.2011 2:29 AM PDT]

  • 10.11.2011 2:27 AM PDT

They come now... and they take us... the tide rises.

I think the Humans have the capacity to replace the Prophets in the role of leadership in the High Council.
But we have the capacity for create a new type of covenant spear, with the support of Sangheili (at the command) and using Kig-Yar and Unggoy for support roles.

  • 10.11.2011 4:22 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

On the battlefield we would probably be alongside the Grunts, but at least we'd stand a better chance, we have better tactics than them.

  • 10.11.2011 4:43 AM PDT

I don't think humanity would be content with fighting alongside the Unggoy; in fact, I doubt we'd be happy with the way the Covenant is run at all. It's literal slavery in service of blind fanaticism.

  • 10.11.2011 5:05 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: Wolverfrog
I don't think humanity would be content with fighting alongside the Unggoy; in fact, I doubt we'd be happy with the way the Covenant is run at all. It's literal slavery in service of blind fanaticism.
I realize that humanity would not be content with servitude, but with the might of all the Covenant against us, would we really stand a chance against them?

  • 10.11.2011 5:11 AM PDT


Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Posted by: Wolverfrog
I don't think humanity would be content with fighting alongside the Unggoy; in fact, I doubt we'd be happy with the way the Covenant is run at all. It's literal slavery in service of blind fanaticism.
I realize that humanity would not be content with servitude, but with the might of all the Covenant against us, would we really stand a chance against them?


We did.

;)

  • 10.11.2011 6:28 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Posted by: Wolverfrog
I don't think humanity would be content with fighting alongside the Unggoy; in fact, I doubt we'd be happy with the way the Covenant is run at all. It's literal slavery in service of blind fanaticism.
I realize that humanity would not be content with servitude, but with the might of all the Covenant against us, would we really stand a chance against them?


We did.

;)


Hate to be an -blam!- but the only reason the war lasted that long is because the covenant wasn't using all of it's resources nor could they find planets fast enough.

Then you have the timely covenant civil war.

So in reality fate just smiled on us.

  • 10.11.2011 6:44 AM PDT

Where'd you get the idea they didn't use all their resources from? Truth and the other hierarchs knew humanity's true nature; they were terrified it'd be discovered. Why wouldn't they pour everything into our destruction?

They didn't find our planets fast enough because of the Cole Protocol, instigated by a human. That wasn't fate, it was strategy. The Covenant Civil war was also sparked by a human, Master Chief, killing the Prophet of Regret.

Perhaps a little good fortune was mixed into the equation, but we won mostly off our own bat.

  • 10.11.2011 6:57 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: MegaMuffin16
Posted by: Wolverfrog
I don't think humanity would be content with fighting alongside the Unggoy; in fact, I doubt we'd be happy with the way the Covenant is run at all. It's literal slavery in service of blind fanaticism.
I realize that humanity would not be content with servitude, but with the might of all the Covenant against us, would we really stand a chance against them?


We did.

;)
...Thanks to the Elites saving our asses.

  • 10.11.2011 1:04 PM PDT