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Subject: Questions About Glasslands Chapter 2.
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Is this all confirmed by 343 to be the actual chapters of the book? To me the writing is atrocious and plot lines mentally unstable. If someone had just given me the link to the text I would have guessed it to be a crappy Fan Fic. Seriously.



Although that very same thing happened for the Halo 4 Announcement Trailer. lol

  • 10.13.2011 7:39 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins


Posted by: Agustus
Is this all confirmed by 343 to be the actual chapters of the book? To me the writing is atrocious and plot lines mentally unstable. If someone had just given me the link to the text I would have guessed it to be a crappy Fan Fic. Seriously.



Although that very same thing happened for the Halo 4 Announcement Trailer. lol
It wasn't that bad, but I have to say that the writing seemed rather simplistic, and there are many important background events that aren't even mentioned (ie. the remaining brutes). But again, this is only a tiny section of the book, and ill read the whole thing before judging it

  • 10.13.2011 8:00 PM PDT

It was a simple problem to fix. There were still a few loyal Unggoy and Jiralhanae around, weren't there?

It is abundantly clear to me that Jul says this in what I would call desperate speculation. Using clues from the conversation, it is obvious there is much uncertainty between Jul and Raia concerning the Sangheili's future. Jul didn't say this, or think it, as if it were a set-in-stone fact--he did not even claim it. He was merely doing a little thing called wishful thinking.

As for the whole ONI trying to get rid of the Sangheili, I think that is foolish trying to start a fight while Humanity is still incredibly weak. First of all, though, ONI is going about it at this point in time by covertly supporting an extremist faction of the Sangheili. They aren't taking any direct action against the Sangheili, they are merely letting them do it to themselves. Second, it is HEAVILY implied that Parangosky (and ONI) are going about this without Hood's knowledge--the de facto leader of the UNSC at the end of the war had no knowledge of this.

If Hood is left out of this, we can assume that ONI is keeping it from more than just him. We can also assume that not everyone in the UEG agrees with these actions (I'm sure an extremely small percentage of the UNSC higher-ups even have knowledge of this). Hood is even leading the way for signing a formal peace treaty with the Arbiter.

In the end, these actions are ONI's doing, and I think for us to assume that they wouldn't act in this manner is very naive.

  • 10.13.2011 8:17 PM PDT

ODST, my problem is how Parangosky is described as basically not being known by many, but feared by nearly all.

ONI is sounding more like Cerberus from ME then an office of naval intelligence.

  • 10.13.2011 8:40 PM PDT


Posted by: Agustus
Is this all confirmed by 343 to be the actual chapters of the book? To me the writing is atrocious and plot lines mentally unstable. If someone had just given me the link to the text I would have guessed it to be a crappy Fan Fic. Seriously.



Although that very same thing happened for the Halo 4 Announcement Trailer. lol


I'm disappointed Augustus. For someone who has been known for rational thought, you sure brutalized Glasslands fast for having read only two chapters. You almost sound offended.

Traviss' writing is realistic in that she writes dialogue and POV narration entirely as if it were from someone with real thoughts; from a hardline ODST to a brilliant scientist. Smart as either of these people are, the writing themselves reflect the thoughts going through their minds in the moment, not from some ghost Narrator doing a retrospective of events that already occured. It will come off as simple. She is cosidered widely in the sci-fi critical community to be the quientessential character writer, as well as reknowned for writing quite complex stories; you'd never guess that from the writing.

Both of which are logically impossible to criticize or make any judgement of in two chapters alone. And I do admit, the first chapters of her books are difficult to get through because they're mostly set up. After that, I find them addicting. She explains the seemingly unexplainable very well. You can't judge the book yet.

[Edited on 10.13.2011 8:44 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2011 8:40 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

Idiots.
You guys actually manage to critisize a book only after two chapters.
I can easily see how the brutes are caable of being engineers, as evident in Contact Harvest some brute ships were lesser equipped and in a wrse condition than elite ships. Yes drones did most of the matinance, but when the majority of your crew is serving on board a ship only suported by duck tae and glue, it helps to have more than one race know ho to fix the various systems.
Yes some brutes could have remained loyal to the elites, just because one faction of a race commited something, doesn't mean the entire race gets punished. Such as the murder of the elites on halo by brutes. Just because those brutes under Tartarus killed the elites or turned loyalist, doesn't mean the entire species will.
Oni has goood reasn to cause turmoil in the elites.
If anything the elites are in the same state of confusion as the Unsc.
Unlike the UNSC however, the elites are having dwindiling rescourses and next to no knowledge on their ships. With fighting battles with various loyalist factions, their military power can only reduce in strength in the short term.
Both sides are helpless, but still trying to destroy the other to prevent the other side from gaining enough power to come back up and kill. The war may have ended, but the threat still exists. It's not all peace and flowers.

  • 10.13.2011 10:17 PM PDT


Posted by: DonVinzone1

Posted by: Wazooty
She is a washed out spartan-II. (failed the augmentation process or something).

I am liking what I'm reading. There are a lot of storylines and viewpoints Traviss is covering, and they all interest me.

Though I will say that after reading cryptum, the relative simplicity of Traviss' writing style seems a little...basic? Not bad by any means, I like it all the same, but I'd make the comparison of Harry Potter vs LOTR books.



The washout is that other girl, the protege of Parangosky. Forgot her name.
Naomi is most likely a Spartan 2, judging by how she is described. Add to that: Vaz, the ODST immediatly recognizes her as a Spartan. Now, S3's generally weren't as intimidatingly large as S2's (due to them mostly being younger for instance). Also: the S3 program really was secret. I doubt many regular Marines, Navy or ODST personnel has ever seen, heard or even worked with a S3, apart from those who did so with Noble Team.

As for the Brutes: extremely odd!
I noticed that too in the other, bigger, thread about Glasslands. There really isn't a good explanation right now. If I have to speculate I'd say they're either prisoners of war, or decided to kiss the Elite's @$$es to save their own and backed out of the Covenant side as soon as they saw the Elite-Human alliance was going to win.

I also agree with the last point you make: Glasslands seems written a bit too....basic. And for me thats a huge dissapointment so far. It really goes wrong with the Elites for instance, who resemble insecure teens more than tough as nails noble warriors.
Opposed to that, she starts the chapter off in an incredibly annoying way: constantly switching between characters, or referring to them without us really knowing them which makes it very hard to follow who is who...

So far it seems less of a disaster I was expecting, but still: compared to Nylund's and Bear's work, this is pretty weak so far. I mean, they took a high profile writer to do this, and it doesn't seem to be anything better than what Staten did with Contact Harvest, which to me is the weakest entry in the series.
The focus on unlikable characters (Parangosky) and the rumoured conflicts between everybody still makes me a bit uneasy. Its still as if Traviss is kicking on presenting loads of drama while that doesn't really fit Halo.

Maybe the book will be decent or good, but it doesn't make want to buy it first day so far.

I loved Contact Harvest... SGT Johnson is such a good character and I loved seeing a side to him that wasn't just stereotypical hard-ass marine. Not that being a hard marine is bad it was just interesting to see what went on inside his head as opposed to his obviously steely exterior.

  • 10.13.2011 10:36 PM PDT

Um...

People seem to forget Truth publicly announced to the ENTIRE Covenant that the Brutes were taking out the Elites and replacing them.

I fully support unique characters/out of the box stuff, but come on...

Give me a SINGLE example of an Elite and Brute working together and getting along fine.

  • 10.13.2011 10:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um...

People seem to forget Truth publicly announced to the ENTIRE Covenant that the Brutes were taking out the Elites and replacing them.

I fully support unique characters/out of the box stuff, but come on...

Give me a SINGLE example of an Elite and Brute working together and getting along fine.


Does being in the same room for a while count?

  • 10.14.2011 3:29 AM PDT

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I like what I've read so far, but the part regarding the Brutes does seem to be an issue at this point.

  • 10.14.2011 5:27 AM PDT


Posted by: Eldor Thug 37

Posted by: DonVinzone1

Posted by: Wazooty
She is a washed out spartan-II. (failed the augmentation process or something).

I am liking what I'm reading. There are a lot of storylines and viewpoints Traviss is covering, and they all interest me.

Though I will say that after reading cryptum, the relative simplicity of Traviss' writing style seems a little...basic? Not bad by any means, I like it all the same, but I'd make the comparison of Harry Potter vs LOTR books.



The washout is that other girl, the protege of Parangosky. Forgot her name.
Naomi is most likely a Spartan 2, judging by how she is described. Add to that: Vaz, the ODST immediatly recognizes her as a Spartan. Now, S3's generally weren't as intimidatingly large as S2's (due to them mostly being younger for instance). Also: the S3 program really was secret. I doubt many regular Marines, Navy or ODST personnel has ever seen, heard or even worked with a S3, apart from those who did so with Noble Team.

As for the Brutes: extremely odd!
I noticed that too in the other, bigger, thread about Glasslands. There really isn't a good explanation right now. If I have to speculate I'd say they're either prisoners of war, or decided to kiss the Elite's @$$es to save their own and backed out of the Covenant side as soon as they saw the Elite-Human alliance was going to win.

I also agree with the last point you make: Glasslands seems written a bit too....basic. And for me thats a huge dissapointment so far. It really goes wrong with the Elites for instance, who resemble insecure teens more than tough as nails noble warriors.
Opposed to that, she starts the chapter off in an incredibly annoying way: constantly switching between characters, or referring to them without us really knowing them which makes it very hard to follow who is who...

So far it seems less of a disaster I was expecting, but still: compared to Nylund's and Bear's work, this is pretty weak so far. I mean, they took a high profile writer to do this, and it doesn't seem to be anything better than what Staten did with Contact Harvest, which to me is the weakest entry in the series.
The focus on unlikable characters (Parangosky) and the rumoured conflicts between everybody still makes me a bit uneasy. Its still as if Traviss is kicking on presenting loads of drama while that doesn't really fit Halo.

Maybe the book will be decent or good, but it doesn't make want to buy it first day so far.

I loved Contact Harvest... SGT Johnson is such a good character and I loved seeing a side to him that wasn't just stereotypical hard-ass marine. Not that being a hard marine is bad it was just interesting to see what went on inside his head as opposed to his obviously steely exterior.


I'm not saying Contact Harvest was bad. But it was my least favorite in the series so far, together with Cole Protocol (which also isn't bad). I do think Staten made a huge mistake with the pr0n sequence at the end which felt completely out of place and unneccecary.

  • 10.14.2011 5:47 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: ExcellentSix
Yes some brutes could have remained loyal to the elites, just because one faction of a race commited something, doesn't mean the entire race gets punished. Such as the murder of the elites on halo by brutes. Just because those brutes under Tartarus killed the elites or turned loyalist, doesn't mean the entire species will.


The Brutes condemned the whole Elite species to extinction. Every single one of them. Thousands were killed, betrayed, backstabbed by the Brutes, which is an insult to the Elite's sense of honor. The High Council was murdered, and with that great part of the Elite high leadership. And then the millions killed fighting the Brutes, that kept on fighting even after the Prophet of Truth had been killed.

It makes no sense at all for the Elites to pardon such a betrayal. The Brutes tried to wipe out all the Brutes, so it's only natural that the Elites try the same. Their sense of honor wouldint allow it. Allow the survivors of the Great Schism to live along side Brutes that murdered their brethren.

  • 10.14.2011 6:51 AM PDT

Perhaps the brutes were enslaved and/or captured during the war?

  • 10.14.2011 7:22 AM PDT


Posted by: InsidiousMongo
Perhaps the brutes were enslaved and/or captured during the war?


I think this is the most logical solution to the problem.
The other one being this tribe of Brutes not having taken part in the Covenant Civil War and siding with the Elites from the beginning to save themselves.
After all: Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss showed some Brutes do in fact not care about the Covenant at all and are willing to flee, or do "inhonorable" things to save themselves/

  • 10.14.2011 7:29 AM PDT


Posted by: DonVinzone1

Posted by: InsidiousMongo
Perhaps the brutes were enslaved and/or captured during the war?


I think this is the most logical solution to the problem.
The other one being this tribe of Brutes not having taken part in the Covenant Civil War and siding with the Elites from the beginning to save themselves.
After all: Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss showed some Brutes do in fact not care about the Covenant at all and are willing to flee, or do "inhonorable" things to save themselves/


Elites haven't be described to take prisoners or slaves many times before...

And seeing as how the civil war at the begining featured Truth/Tartarus announcing across the Covenant that the Brutes were to purge the Elites... That's unlikely in my mind.

Much less Elites allowing brutes to work on their homeworld as engineers after the Brute SLAUGHTER of the elite council members...

  • 10.14.2011 8:09 AM PDT

I've already given an answer to the Brute question but no one seems to be paying attention. Jul says that line with desperation, wishfully speculating that there were loyal Brutes still out there. The line, after all, says:

It was a simple problem to fix. There were still a few loyal Unggoy and Jiralhanae around, weren't there?

Jul did not make a concrete claim. It is kind of like a family member of a dying person saying "There is still hope, right?" Doesn't mean there actually is hope. It just shows the desperation of the situation.

  • 10.14.2011 8:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Agustus
Is this all confirmed by 343 to be the actual chapters of the book? To me the writing is atrocious and plot lines mentally unstable. If someone had just given me the link to the text I would have guessed it to be a crappy Fan Fic. Seriously.



Although that very same thing happened for the Halo 4 Announcement Trailer. lol


I'm disappointed Augustus. For someone who has been known for rational thought, you sure brutalized Glasslands fast for having read only two chapters. You almost sound offended.

Traviss' writing is realistic in that she writes dialogue and POV narration entirely as if it were from someone with real thoughts; from a hardline ODST to a brilliant scientist. Smart as either of these people are, the writing themselves reflect the thoughts going through their minds in the moment, not from some ghost Narrator doing a retrospective of events that already occured. It will come off as simple. She is cosidered widely in the sci-fi critical community to be the quientessential character writer, as well as reknowned for writing quite complex stories; you'd never guess that from the writing.

Both of which are logically impossible to criticize or make any judgement of in two chapters alone. And I do admit, the first chapters of her books are difficult to get through because they're mostly set up. After that, I find them addicting. She explains the seemingly unexplainable very well. You can't judge the book yet.


No, just no.

I agree with Augustus. Judging from first two chapters, it's obvious that Karen Traviss never bothered to read ahout Halo novels or just took "facts" from the Halo universe to apply for her book.

Seriously, don't you see any problems with this book???

Elites with Brutes?

ONI starting a civil war at Shanghelios?

Sudden change to Dr. Halsey's character such as dramatic person and moody against SPARTAN-IIIs?

Oh no, ROBERTO jh. Augustus had much right to criticize the novel based on two chapters as I criticized against the book. Since it sounded like crappy fan fiction to me.

And you forgot a part where Karen Traviss wrote clones war books which it changed about Mandelorins and Star Wars fans were completely pissed off at her for breaking canon.

I won't be probably buying this crap.

[Edited on 10.14.2011 9:03 AM PDT]

  • 10.14.2011 9:02 AM PDT


Posted by: ODSTxQwikDraw24
I've already given an answer to the Brute question but no one seems to be paying attention. Jul says that line with desperation, wishfully speculating that there were loyal Brutes still out there. The line, after all, says:

It was a simple problem to fix. There were still a few loyal Unggoy and Jiralhanae around, weren't there?

Jul did not make a concrete claim. It is kind of like a family member of a dying person saying "There is still hope, right?" Doesn't mean there actually is hope. It just shows the desperation of the situation.


Actually, his wife directly mentions working with brutes. She comments that they have been forced to rely on savages, and the brutes cannot maintain their ships with the engineers gone.

Kinda flies in the face of all previous interactions between the races no?

  • 10.14.2011 9:05 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Agustus
Is this all confirmed by 343 to be the actual chapters of the book? To me the writing is atrocious and plot lines mentally unstable. If someone had just given me the link to the text I would have guessed it to be a crappy Fan Fic. Seriously.



Although that very same thing happened for the Halo 4 Announcement Trailer. lol

Agreed. To wait 4 years to find out how things pan out only to be given schlock.

  • 10.14.2011 9:07 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: anish panchalin
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Agustus
Is this all confirmed by 343 to be the actual chapters of the book? To me the writing is atrocious and plot lines mentally unstable. If someone had just given me the link to the text I would have guessed it to be a crappy Fan Fic. Seriously.



Although that very same thing happened for the Halo 4 Announcement Trailer. lol

Agreed. To wait 4 years to find out how things pan out only to be given shock.

Not that I'm planning to purchase glasslands (because I'm a cheapskate) or even to argue against you and augustus but what exactly makes the writing so "atrocious" for you two?

Do you simply not like where the plot is going on sanghelios or are you particularly frustrated about the changes to Halsey's character, or the supposed villifying of ONI?

Btw I believe the opinion of margaret paragonsky and her plans cannot be entirely representative of humanity's desires or wishes regarding the sangheili race and whether to weaken them or form a peace treaty.

fixed your spelling mistake

It was not a spelling mistake.

  • 10.14.2011 9:24 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Elites haven't be described to take prisoners or slaves many times before...

And seeing as how the civil war at the begining featured Truth/Tartarus announcing across the Covenant that the Brutes were to purge the Elites... That's unlikely in my mind.

Much less Elites allowing brutes to work on their homeworld as engineers after the Brute SLAUGHTER of the elite council members...


There could have been exceptions, just as the Arbiter made for Johnson and Keyes at the time to stop Tartarus from firing Delta Halo.

  • 10.14.2011 9:31 AM PDT


Posted by: anish panchalin
Do you simply not like where the plot is going on sanghelios or are you particularly frustrated about the changes to Halsey's character, or the supposed villifying of ONI?


Well, Elites and Brutes have never been described as getting along well, and suddenly Elites are relying on them to maintain their ships?

Halsey and Mendez hating each other, in ways that seem to go beyond simple annoyance at ONI making Spartan 3's?

Supposed demonizing? You mean ONI not wanting to bring Halsey back for her brilliance and to help them faster adapt forerunner tech, but instead to place her on trial with death penalty for 'theft' isn't demonizing?

And honestly, I think ONI doesn't represent the entire human race. They present their stupid and evil goals. Hood wants a peace treaty, the civilians just want the lack of fighting to continue so they can rebuild.

  • 10.14.2011 9:33 AM PDT

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