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Subject: Problem with the Halo Array

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

So because we don't understand the Forerunners power generation methods it is impossible for them to generate the requisite energy for creating enough of the neuron destroying waves? They are a ridiculously advanced alien species, while we are given a glimpse into their world through Bears series on the Forerunner there are still many things that are mysterious about them.

  • 10.17.2011 11:48 AM PDT

Fair enough, i have conflated neutrinos and neutrons whilst describing the cern finding. Still, it seems to prove that particles possessing mass can infact travel FTL under some circumstances, unless they find out where they made a measurement error (and CERN has been trying to do that for 3 years already.)


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Fatal Factor
I dont see where it is stated that a Halo produces a gamma ray burst. The truth is, a Halo is a neutron bomb device, somehow accelerating the neutrinos to far superluminal speeds via forerunner magic whilst also avoiding the constraints of the inverse-square law (i suspect slipspace is involved), and as pointed out above this effect has recently been all but confirmed even though it should be impossible to our current understanding of physics (to the guy above who stated plainly that neutrinos cannot exceed lightspeed at all, you dun goofed)

How did we get from neutrinos to neutrons?

Also, what effect has been confirmed? Violation of light speed?

  • 10.17.2011 11:58 AM PDT

Well according to the scientists at CERN they have discovered that some particles (I believe they were neutrinos? Not sure) can go faster than the speed of light. So maybe the forerunners designed radioactive particles to go faster than the speed of light and thus were able to destroy sentient life in an instant.

  • 10.17.2011 12:05 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

I think we just dont know enough about the Halo installations, and I think thats the way its meant to be portrayed. They're colossal end-game weapons, mysterious as their creators. I personally think the idea of using slipspace makes sense, especially considering the Forerunners fondness for using slipspace in their technology.

As for power generation, this is where you're meant to just be awed by the Forerunners capability. We're not meant to literally speculate as to how they create energy.

  • 10.17.2011 12:26 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Fatal Factor
Fair enough, i have conflated neutrinos and neutrons whilst describing the cern finding. Still, it seems to prove that particles possessing mass can infact travel FTL under some circumstances, unless they find out where they made a measurement error (and CERN has been trying to do that for 3 years already.)

Was just wondering. I wasn't sure which principle you were referring to originally.

  • 10.17.2011 12:27 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

The CERN findings regarding particles travelling faster than light have almost certainly been debunked.

Someone forgot to account for the satellites moving..... sheesh what a rookie mistake.

  • 10.17.2011 12:46 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

New theory: The Forerunners know the general area of each inhabited solar system thanks to indexing. They send the super-massive neutrinos through slipspace and program it so that the neutrinos drop out of slipspace at the right time so they saturate the solar systems but nowhere else.

  • 10.17.2011 12:52 PM PDT

Damn. It was almost certain there was a mistake somewhere, and it seems to be the best candidate yet.

Im disappointed really. On one hand we might lose the last 100 years or so of theoretical physics but on the other imagine the possibilities such a result would open up.

"If it stands up, this episode will be laden with irony. Far from breaking Einstein's theory of relatively, the faster-than-light measurement will turn out to be another confirmation of it."

Einstein - master science troll, even from the grave.
Posted by: flamedude
The CERN findings regarding particles travelling faster than light have almost certainly been debunked.

Someone forgot to account for the satellites moving..... sheesh what a rookie mistake.

  • 10.17.2011 12:59 PM PDT

I like it but it doesent jive with the shield worlds. If they could target the halo effect to specific places, they wouldnt have needed shield worlds to hide in, also its a good way to accidentally let the flood escape by hiding in interstellar space while the halos fire too.

Posted by: Xd00999
New theory: The Forerunners know the general area of each inhabited solar system thanks to indexing. They send the super-massive neutrinos through slipspace and program it so that the neutrinos drop out of slipspace at the right time so they saturate the solar systems but nowhere else.

  • 10.17.2011 1:02 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Fatal Factor
I like it but it doesent jive with the shield worlds. If they could target the halo effect to specific places, they wouldnt have needed shield worlds to hide in, also its a good way to accidentally let the flood escape by hiding in interstellar space while the halos fire too.

Posted by: Xd00999
New theory: The Forerunners know the general area of each inhabited solar system thanks to indexing. They send the super-massive neutrinos through slipspace and program it so that the neutrinos drop out of slipspace at the right time so they saturate the solar systems but nowhere else.

They target all stars, just to be sure, and also areas likely to contain the flood. Alternatively, they send out a large burst that would hit everything as before, but they transmit it through slipspace and time the slipspace dropouts so that everywhere is hit at the same time.

  • 10.17.2011 1:11 PM PDT

Joshua Piper

Kind of a unrelated question but:

Is the Death Star from Star Wars comparable in anyway in a technological sense to the Halo Array?

I'm just wondering about they physics and energy required for both to work.

Sorry if this is off-topic, it was just a thought that I had.

i.e. are they similar? Is what I mean

  • 10.17.2011 1:53 PM PDT

That seems more likely. The array was carefully constructed to sweep the entire galaxy and not just targeted parts of it, out to "3 radii of galactic centre" which is very.......thorough. They couldnt risk any of the flood surviving the event anywhere in the galaxy.
Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Fatal Factor
I like it but it doesent jive with the shield worlds. If they could target the halo effect to specific places, they wouldnt have needed shield worlds to hide in, also its a good way to accidentally let the flood escape by hiding in interstellar space while the halos fire too.

Posted by: Xd00999
New theory: The Forerunners know the general area of each inhabited solar system thanks to indexing. They send the super-massive neutrinos through slipspace and program it so that the neutrinos drop out of slipspace at the right time so they saturate the solar systems but nowhere else.

They target all stars, just to be sure, and also areas likely to contain the flood. Alternatively, they send out a large burst that would hit everything as before, but they transmit it through slipspace and time the slipspace dropouts so that everywhere is hit at the same time.

  • 10.17.2011 1:57 PM PDT

Not really. The death start just seems to be a fk huge "IMMA FIRIN MY LAZORRRRRRRRRR" device.


Posted by: Righteous Fury19
Kind of a unrelated question but:

Is the Death Star from Star Wars comparable in anyway in a technological sense to the Halo Array?

I'm just wondering about they physics and energy required for both to work.

Sorry if this is off-topic, it was just a thought that I had.

i.e. are they similar? Is what I mean

  • 10.17.2011 1:59 PM PDT

While it doesn't explain the physics of things I remember (correct me if I'm wrong) Guilty Spark saying at the end of Halo 2 that the Halo Array was communicating at superluminal speeds. Theoretically whatever mechanism they used to do this could also be used to kill sentient beings. Again though, this doesn't explain the physics.

  • 10.17.2011 2:37 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Xd00999
New theory: The Forerunners know the general area of each inhabited solar system thanks to indexing. They send the super-massive neutrinos through slipspace and program it so that the neutrinos drop out of slipspace at the right time so they saturate the solar systems but nowhere else.


How could this possibly account for unexplored systems with indigenous populations or ships in deep space during the firing of the array? The Forerunners couldn't leave the destruction of the Flood to chance. The Array had to hit everywhere HARD instantaneously. Furthermore, Halo had to be a dumb weapon. What entity could possibly calculate that amount of slipspace traffic without access to the resources in the Domain?

Read my second post. A bunch of Metarch level AIs probably could.

  • 10.17.2011 2:38 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Xd00999
New theory: The Forerunners know the general area of each inhabited solar system thanks to indexing. They send the super-massive neutrinos through slipspace and program it so that the neutrinos drop out of slipspace at the right time so they saturate the solar systems but nowhere else.


How could this possibly account for unexplored systems with indigenous populations or ships in deep space during the firing of the array? The Forerunners couldn't leave the destruction of the Flood to chance. The Array had to hit everywhere HARD instantaneously. Furthermore, Halo had to be a dumb weapon. What entity could possibly calculate that amount of slipspace traffic without access to the resources in the Domain?

Read my second post. A bunch of Metarch level AIs probably could.


Yes, but Metarch Class AI were extremely few in number. Have you forgotten the assault on the Forerunner capital?

The Array HAD to be dumb fired. There is no other way.

True, but a few Metarchs tag-teaming with each Installation's monitor could feasibly develope a delivery methods. I suggested above that they fire in slipspace and time the firing with the dropout to hit everywhere simultaneously.

  • 10.17.2011 3:15 PM PDT

Generalizations.
Helping idiots hate other idiots since people have existed.

So general theory- Gamma Radiation is out, Neutron radiation is in?

Someone above did mention that, in Halo 2, the Halo array was communicating at superluminal speeds. So perhaps the neutrons too are capable of moving at superluminal speeds.

The deadly thing with Neutron Radiation is that the free neutrons induce radioactivity in some matter, including living tissue.
However, if these neutrons induced radioactivity in say silicon or oxygen, that would make our planet uninhabitable, and humans could not have returned here, nor could have the Elites returned to their planet, ext.

It depends what elements the neutrons induce radioactivity in.

[Edited on 10.17.2011 4:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.17.2011 4:12 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

I'm fairly certain they used something similar to resonance frequencies. That way they target flesh, not air or water.

  • 10.17.2011 4:31 PM PDT

Follow the truth...
Follow the lies...
Nobody wins...
Everything dies...

I believe i recall cortana mentioning something about powerful pulse generators. Meh, i don't know.

[Edited on 10.17.2011 4:42 PM PDT]

  • 10.17.2011 4:35 PM PDT

Phased pulse generators. Im sure i read something about harmonic frequencies in the encyclopaedia too.

My pet theory is that the index contains the 'resonant frequency' of every sentient beings nervous system/neural physics signature in the galaxy, data which was collected during the great indexing and put into the physical index. Thats why the array cannot be fired without the index being manually brought to the control room, as a safety measure. It is not just a token. Before the conservation measure was settled upon by the forerunners, Halo was a dumb area of effect weapon that messed things up on a huge scale, not just biomatter, like rending that entire planet where faber test fired it (cant remember the name)

So in this way, the pulse is targeted only to the species capable of hosting the flood, whilst leaving everything else intact and not irradiated.

Of course this raises interesting questions seeing as were talking about frequencies and neutron particle bursts in the same sentence, but perhaps the forerunners knew something about wave-particle duality we dont. Infact its almost certain, i mean cmon they were nearly gods.

  • 10.17.2011 9:31 PM PDT


Posted by: Fatal Factor
Phased pulse generators. Im sure i read something about harmonic frequencies in the encyclopaedia too.

My pet theory is that the index contains the 'resonant frequency' of every sentient beings nervous system/neural physics signature in the galaxy, data which was collected during the great indexing and put into the physical index. Thats why the array cannot be fired without the index being manually brought to the control room, as a safety measure. It is not just a token. Before the conservation measure was settled upon by the forerunners, Halo was a dumb area of effect weapon that messed things up on a huge scale, not just biomatter, like rending that entire planet where faber test fired it (cant remember the name)

So in this way, the pulse is targeted only to the species capable of hosting the flood, whilst leaving everything else intact and not irradiated.

Of course this raises interesting questions seeing as were talking about frequencies and neutron particle bursts in the same sentence, but perhaps the forerunners knew something about wave-particle duality we dont. Infact its almost certain, i mean cmon they were nearly gods.


^^^^THIS! Well done, I agree!! I also agree that super massive neutrinos and slip space reasoning we can not possibly fathom as with anything the forerunners have done or will do.

[Edited on 10.17.2011 10:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.17.2011 10:10 PM PDT

We believe that the universe is unbounded: this is not the same as infinite: the 2-D surface of a sphere, wrapped around a 3rd dimension, has a finite size, but has no end. If you start off in a given direction on the surface of a sphere, you could return to your start point without having to turn around -- you simply go all the way around. But wouldn't that mean the universe has an escape velocity like the earth?

Posted by: oaklandp8ntbalr


---------
Also, the laws of physics still apply to highly advanced civilizations, even the Forerunners can't break the laws of physics.


Laws change, from Newtonian to Einsteinian, our knowledge of the universe and how it works is likely VERY primitive compared to them.

~B2

  • 10.17.2011 11:17 PM PDT

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