Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Grey knights vs John
  • Subject: Grey knights vs John
Subject: Grey knights vs John

Yeah yeah, this is another vs thread.
My question is this:
How many grey knights would be needed to take out John 117.

Yes this forum is dying, till we get new halo cannon information, it will be dead.
I know that this belongs into flood, but here people are smarter and know alot more about spartans that thoes who reside in the flood.

  • 10.22.2011 5:58 AM PDT

yeah

  • 10.22.2011 6:38 AM PDT

It would take one.

Ironically, if tere were 4 Knights and only one Spartan, the Spartan would have a better chance. Space Marines fall hilariously fast to enemies using stealth if the books are anu indication, and do so quicker when they are of reasonable numbers (due to pridem probably). It took a squad of human regulars only to be equipped with active camo to send six or seven Space Marines to their doom. Imagine what a Spartan can do under the same circumstances.

And it's not like this only happened once. Nearly every time I see a Space Marine die, it's because the enemy was stealthy. The Invisibles, the Megarachnid ambushes, almost everything that happened in the Ultramarines movie, that Ultramarine who got snuck up on by Nemeroth and impaled (and do note my knowledge of WH40K extends to only a not-quite-so finished book, a game, and the animated movie). I swear SMs have terrible situational awareness; a Spartan's motion tracker goes a long way.

Spartans are more versatile then Space Marines it would seem, and like a motion tracker, versatility when you had been trained exensively to do the exact thing that nearly always finds a Space Marine dead on the floor goes a long way. The Spartans simply represent everything that gets a Space Marine killed; going off of that, it wouldn't be all to surprising to hear John could take out a particuarly sizable chunk of them before dying.

However, I would imagine if there were only one SM, then he'd be a little more conservative, more cautious. If not, well, then the Astartes aren't all that they're cracked up to be, then, are they?

[Edited on 10.22.2011 7:27 AM PDT]

  • 10.22.2011 7:24 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
It would take one.

Ironically, if tere were 4 Knights and only one Spartan, the Spartan would have a better chance. Space Marines fall hilariously fast to enemies using stealth if the books are anu indication, and do so quicker when they are of reasonable numbers (due to pridem probably). It took a squad of human regulars only to be equipped with active camo to send six or seven Space Marines to their doom. Imagine what a Spartan can do under the same circumstances.

And it's not like this only happened once. Nearly every time I see a Space Marine die, it's because the enemy was stealthy. The Invisibles, the Megarachnid ambushes, almost everything that happened in the Ultramarines movie, that Ultramarine who got snuck up on by Nemeroth and impaled (and do note my knowledge of WH40K extends to only a not-quite-so finished book, a game, and the animated movie). I swear SMs have terrible situational awareness; a Spartan's motion tracker goes a long way.

Spartans are more versatile then Space Marines it would seem, and like a motion tracker, versatility when you had been trained exensively to do the exact thing that nearly always finds a Space Marine dead on the floor goes a long way. The Spartans simply represent everything that gets a Space Marine killed; going off of that, it wouldn't be all to surprising to hear John could take out a particuarly sizable chunk of them before dying.

However, I would imagine if there were only one SM, then he'd be a little more conservative, more cautious. If not, well, then the Astartes aren't all that they're cracked up to be, then, are they?

Yeah i agree with you on that one.
But we are talking about grey knight's, they are far more stronger than spacemarines(well they hawe more Experiance).
And i was thinking rather about head on.
But yeah, on stealth they fail.

  • 10.22.2011 7:47 AM PDT


Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
It would take one.

Ironically, if tere were 4 Knights and only one Spartan, the Spartan would have a better chance. Space Marines fall hilariously fast to enemies using stealth if the books are anu indication, and do so quicker when they are of reasonable numbers (due to pridem probably). It took a squad of human regulars only to be equipped with active camo to send six or seven Space Marines to their doom. Imagine what a Spartan can do under the same circumstances.

And it's not like this only happened once. Nearly every time I see a Space Marine die, it's because the enemy was stealthy. The Invisibles, the Megarachnid ambushes, almost everything that happened in the Ultramarines movie, that Ultramarine who got snuck up on by Nemeroth and impaled (and do note my knowledge of WH40K extends to only a not-quite-so finished book, a game, and the animated movie). I swear SMs have terrible situational awareness; a Spartan's motion tracker goes a long way.

Spartans are more versatile then Space Marines it would seem, and like a motion tracker, versatility when you had been trained exensively to do the exact thing that nearly always finds a Space Marine dead on the floor goes a long way. The Spartans simply represent everything that gets a Space Marine killed; going off of that, it wouldn't be all to surprising to hear John could take out a particuarly sizable chunk of them before dying.

However, I would imagine if there were only one SM, then he'd be a little more conservative, more cautious. If not, well, then the Astartes aren't all that they're cracked up to be, then, are they?

Yeah i agree with you on that one.
But we are talking about grey knight's, they are far more stronger than spacemarines(well they hawe more Experiance).
And i was thinking rather about head on.
But yeah, on stealth they fail.


Well like I said I don't know enough about WH40K to know anything specific, like the Grey Knights martial prowess. A head on head fight would boil down to things like range, and weaponry involved. A UNSC turret (at least the ones from Reach) uses explosive ammunition for bullets, like miniature Bolter rounds. And from what I've seen, a direct rocket impact (or even a glancing blow) could kill a Space Marine. I'm pretty sure an M99 Stanchion Gauss, or Spartan Laser could kill one just as well. If John had more traditional UNSC weapons, he could only hope to aim for the unarmored joints.

Plasma or energy weapons are another matter however; Covenant plasma weaponry is much more powerful then the games depict, even rivaling some of the Imperium's. Things like a plasma rifle on full auto or a FRG could also kill a Space Marine.

So really it depends on weaponry, but I imagine John could hold out for a few minutes if the full Halo arsenal was taken into account (do note I'm imagining that this takes place in a Gladiator arena, with little to no cover).

  • 10.22.2011 8:07 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

The law of inverse ninjutsu is what kills most marines. You always see a lone marine crushing all sorts of enemies, but put them in a squad and they fall. Grey Knights are to marines like Spartans are to ODSTs.
I should also state that WH40k plasma weapons are not actually plasma, just like the Gauss weapons are not actually Gauss. Ceramite also conducts almost no heat, and is a prime material in marine armor.

  • 10.22.2011 8:53 AM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999
The law of inverse ninjutsu is what kills most marines. You always see a lone marine crushing all sorts of enemies, but put them in a squad and they fall. Grey Knights are to marines like Spartans are to ODSTs.
I should also state that WH40k plasma weapons are not actually plasma, just like the Gauss weapons are not actually Gauss. Ceramite also conducts almost no heat, and is a prime material in marine armor.


According to the WH40K wiki, plasma weapons are definitely plasma based.

Though I do love that inverse ninjutsu law, always thought it was hilarious, like the Stormtrooper effect. Though in this case, there is a canonical reason behind it. Space Marines are simply built for large scale warfare, not small deployments and stealth ops (or countering them for that matter).

Under your logic, every substantially large army in history that got taken out by small scale stealth tactics lost because of inverse ninjutsu. Obviously, there is not plot armor or weapons in real life.

It's a simple matter of large forces built for war are highly ineffective against hit and run tactics, like the Swamp Fox to the British, or like the Invisibles or megarachnid were to the Space Marines. Spartans are built to be extremely versatile, the exact kind of enemy that left dozens of Space Marines dead on the planet Murder. For the sake of debate, it can be said Space Marines are precisely the kind of enemy Spartans are trained to kill, while Spartans are precisely the kind of enemy the Space Marines are not equipped or prepared to fight.

In a head-on-head engagement, the Spartan will die eventually. Put the same forces in a jungle, and it's a different matter entirely.

  • 10.22.2011 9:13 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

At no point did I say that inverse ninjutsu occurs regularly in real life. It does occur with stunning regularity in fiction, like how one Elite can put up an amazing fight against John while a dozen die faster than mayflies.

I mentioned in another thread that I think an Assassin would be a better fight because of the similar combat doctrines.

  • 10.22.2011 9:21 AM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

I thought the gray knights would win but looks like I am wrong.

  • 10.22.2011 9:28 AM PDT

And that Chaos lord in the warhammer 40k space marine game was wearing Terminator armor. Those are equipped with teleporters so the space marine who got impaled didn't die from lack of situational awareness.

  • 10.22.2011 10:09 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And that Chaos lord in the warhammer 40k space marine game was wearing Terminator armor. Those are equipped with teleporters so the space marine who got impaled didn't die from lack of situational awareness.

Only certain armor pieces come with built in teleporters (Terminator being one of them) but Nemeroth was using a warp gate.

  • 10.22.2011 11:08 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand and of overwhelming force on the other.

I'm about to message a forum ninja about these versus threads.

  • 10.22.2011 11:09 AM PDT


Posted by: I Em I Raptor
I'm about to message a forum ninja about these versus threads.


Why? Last I remember they aren't against the rules.

  • 10.22.2011 12:00 PM PDT

WH40K Space Marines are freakin' BAMFS.

I'm sorry but Gray Knights would be kicking some serious ass. Their armor is huuugggeee...

  • 10.22.2011 12:30 PM PDT


Posted by: GeneralRafa
WH40K Space Marines are freakin' BAMFS.

I'm sorry but Gray Knights would be kicking some serious ass. Their armor is huuugggeee...

Look at scarab-Big ass armor,weapons
spartan-small ass armor,weapons

spartan>scarab

  • 10.22.2011 12:32 PM PDT


Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: GeneralRafa
WH40K Space Marines are freakin' BAMFS.

I'm sorry but Gray Knights would be kicking some serious ass. Their armor is huuugggeee...

Look at scarab-Big ass armor,weapons
spartan-small ass armor,weapons

spartan>scarab

Scarabs are slow and clumsy vehicles.

We're talking about badasses who aren't slow and clumsy and possess psionic abilities.

[Edited on 10.22.2011 12:44 PM PDT]

  • 10.22.2011 12:42 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
And that Chaos lord in the warhammer 40k space marine game was wearing Terminator armor. Those are equipped with teleporters so the space marine who got impaled didn't die from lack of situational awareness.


I mean to say that he was walking slowly up to him while he pwned the deamons around him, while the SM was caught totally unaware (even after Titus warned him).

Suffice it to say John would not last long against the Grey Knights, I'm only making a point regarding other SM chapters, would this have been a fight between them and a Spartan.

  • 10.22.2011 12:46 PM PDT


Posted by: GeneralRafa

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: GeneralRafa
WH40K Space Marines are freakin' BAMFS.

I'm sorry but Gray Knights would be kicking some serious ass. Their armor is huuugggeee...

Look at scarab-Big ass armor,weapons
spartan-small ass armor,weapons

spartan>scarab

Scarabs are slow and clumsy vehicles.

We're talking about badasses who aren't slow and clumsy and possess psionic abilities.


I'm pretty sure Scarabs are technically cyborgs, or a Lekgolo variety (Hunters).

  • 10.22.2011 12:47 PM PDT

yeah, your right.
But to think about it scarabs aren't so clumsy at all.
They are only big.
For their size they are moving fine.
If you would hawe such a big fat ass could you move normaly?

  • 10.22.2011 12:48 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: GeneralRafa

Posted by: AnubissWarior

Posted by: GeneralRafa
WH40K Space Marines are freakin' BAMFS.

I'm sorry but Gray Knights would be kicking some serious ass. Their armor is huuugggeee...

Look at scarab-Big ass armor,weapons
spartan-small ass armor,weapons

spartan>scarab

Scarabs are slow and clumsy vehicles.

We're talking about badasses who aren't slow and clumsy and possess psionic abilities.


I'm pretty sure Scarabs are technically cyborgs, or a Lekgolo variety (Hunters).

I thought it was confirmed that they were controlled by Lekgolo by the encyclopedia.

  • 10.22.2011 2:21 PM PDT