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Subject: Please lock.

This is really discouraging.

Thanks to (almost) all the mods who gave their thoughts. I'm done with this now, though. I think it's best to let it go.

[Edited on 10.25.2011 2:39 PM PDT]

  • 10.24.2011 5:29 PM PDT
Subject: A discussion on our moderators and their consistency.

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten

The mods moderate differently.

Some mods will ban people for some offences other mods will think is fine.

But the rules are laxed so it "should" be easy to appeal a ban even though 99% of the time a mod will NEVER end a ban early.

Also, I think for things like that the mods should just PM you instead of giving you a warning which affects titles and other mods can see it as a punishment.

[Edited on 10.24.2011 5:34 PM PDT]

  • 10.24.2011 5:31 PM PDT
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Oh, it's this time of the month, huh?

Honestly, I think the two of those are a little different since one is talking about people actually doing it vs. what actually is being discussed in Recon's thread. However, I'll say there is obviously more leniency given to moderators in terms of the threads they make. No one is going to be stupid enough to try and derail that thread into something more inappropriate and the OP isn't going to go anywhere terrible with it either.

  • 10.24.2011 5:33 PM PDT


Posted by: spartain ken 15
The mods moderate differently.

Some mods will ban people for some offences other mods will think is fine.

But the rules are laxed so it "should" be easy to appeal a ban even though 99% of the time a mod will NEVER end a ban early.


I'm not saying they shouldn't moderate differently. But how different is too different? I think any reasonable person would say that moderators banning people for something other moderatord routinely do themselves is unfair to us. Mods have orange text and special titles for a reason. I can't think of any reason other than to make them role models for everyone else.

  • 10.24.2011 5:33 PM PDT
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I think there should be more consistency.

For now, just don't get too friendly with those grey areas.

  • 10.24.2011 5:35 PM PDT


Posted by: drummer0702
Oh, it's this time of the month, huh?

Honestly, I think the two of those are a little different since one is talking about people actually doing it vs. what actually is being discussed in Recon's thread. However, I'll say there is obviously more leniency given to moderators in terms of the threads they make. No one is going to be stupid enough to try and derail that thread into something more inappropriate and the OP isn't going to go anywhere terrible with it either.


In my county a few years ago, some police officers got caught speeding by speed cameras. Some of those officers were going to emergencies, but a lot of them weren't.

The cops didn't get out of their tickets just because they're cops. They had to pay just like everyone else. Why shouldn't the mods have to follow the rules they enforce just like we do?

  • 10.24.2011 5:36 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: spartain ken 15
The mods moderate differently.

Some mods will ban people for some offences other mods will think is fine.

But the rules are laxed so it "should" be easy to appeal a ban even though 99% of the time a mod will NEVER end a ban early.


I'm not saying they shouldn't moderate differently. But how different is too different? I think any reasonable person would say that moderators banning people for something other moderatord routinely do themselves is unfair to us. Mods have orange text and special titles for a reason. I can't think of any reason other than to make them role models for everyone else.


I have seen mods post off topic, heck even flame people, and never get banned cause they are mods.

It is seen as a "joke" I suppose while when we do it, it is seen as spam and flame bait.

The laxed rules are a double bladed sword, while you can have ore freedom in what you post and almost can do whatever, they are NOT well enough defined so that ninjas can easily find reasons to ban someone for really small things.

I got a 7 day ban for posting in the wrong forum. :/

Oh well, it is Bungie.net...

  • 10.24.2011 5:36 PM PDT

Those moderators are so moderate.

  • 10.24.2011 5:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: coolmike699
In my county a few years ago, some police officers got caught speeding by speed cameras. Some of those officers were going to emergencies, but a lot of them weren't.

The cops didn't get out of their tickets just because they're cops. They had to pay just like everyone else. Why shouldn't the mods have to follow the rules they enforce just like we do?


Because a lot of the rules here try to prevent people from taking things out of hand (Politics and things of that nature). However, the mods are already trusted by the webteam so leeway is probably given since they will be able keep things more under control.

Honestly, I don't really see too big of a problem.

  • 10.24.2011 5:39 PM PDT


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: spartain ken 15
The mods moderate differently.

Some mods will ban people for some offences other mods will think is fine.

But the rules are laxed so it "should" be easy to appeal a ban even though 99% of the time a mod will NEVER end a ban early.


I'm not saying they shouldn't moderate differently. But how different is too different? I think any reasonable person would say that moderators banning people for something other moderatord routinely do themselves is unfair to us. Mods have orange text and special titles for a reason. I can't think of any reason other than to make them role models for everyone else.


I have seen mods post off topic, heck even flame people, and never get banned cause they are mods.

It is seen as a "joke" I suppose while when we do it, it is seen as spam and flame bait.

The laxed rules are a double bladed sword, while you can have ore freedom in what you post and almost can do whatever, they are NOT well enough defined so that ninjas can easily find reasons to ban someone for really small things.

I got a 7 day ban for posting in the wrong forum. :/

Oh well, it is Bungie.net...


I've had a 14 day ban for posting in the wrong forum.

I've also had a 14 day ban for making an on-topic joke that a mod didn't get. But those are both beside the point now.

I just think that we deserve more clear lead from the mods as to what we can or can't post.

Look at this photo. That is a tornado-warned severe thunderstorm going over my school. Now, I would have to be an idiot to go out there and walk around, knowing that the storm could drop a tornado that I would never see coming.

That's what posting here can feel like sometimes. Like you're going through clouds, with no idea what's coming. Maybe through discussion, we can clear it up a little.

  • 10.24.2011 5:43 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: coolmike699
I've had a 14 day ban for posting in the wrong forum.

I've also had a 14 day ban for making an on-topic joke that a mod didn't get. But those are both beside the point now.

I just think that we deserve more clear lead from the mods as to what we can or can't post.

Look at this photo. That is a tornado-warned severe thunderstorm going over my school. Now, I would have to be an idiot to go out there and walk around, knowing that the storm could drop a tornado that I would never see coming.

That's what posting here can feel like sometimes. Like you're going through clouds, with no idea what's coming. Maybe through discussion, we can clear it up a little.


I understand but trust me, it is not fun to be afraid what to post on here.

I used to be like that and I know how you feel.

I hate when I get bans/warnings un-intentionally.

I <3 Bungie.net, heck I even have a T-shirt "property of Bungie.net" but I have been banned like 8 times.

But, it all depends who the mod is watching your thread.

  • 10.24.2011 5:47 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Didn't recon ban himself for two weeks for breaking the rules?

Just saying, he isn't the best example for moderators ignoring the rules.

  • 10.24.2011 5:48 PM PDT

There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Forum Rules
List of Forum Ninjas

The only goal as a moderator is for each us to be consistent within ourselves. It is going to be near impossible to have no variance in interpretations of things like "safe for work."

As for topics about sex, I'd say that any of them are toeing the line. There is likely to be a moderator that may feel that it is inappropriate for this site. That doesn't mean that every one of them will be shut down. As for your example, I see a difference between your thread and Recon's. There's some gray area maybe, but there is a difference.

  • 10.24.2011 6:04 PM PDT
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my gt is Godzillla....i just didnt link it properly

im afraid to even post in this thread but

i felt the lash of severity
and seen the pale face of nonchalance

  • 10.24.2011 6:09 PM PDT

We need a madness to the method!

Posted by: Old Papa Rich
As for your example, I see a difference between your thread and Recon's. There's some gray area maybe, but there is a difference.
I disagree.

Although they were different situations, they still covered an NSFW topic.

  • 10.24.2011 6:17 PM PDT
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"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. " ~Gil Stern

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Posted by: Erikster
Posted by: Old Papa Rich
As for your example, I see a difference between your thread and Recon's. There's some gray area maybe, but there is a difference.
I disagree.

Although they were different situations, they still covered an NSFW topic.


Hmm, I don't know if an article that could show up on CNN would be NSFW.

  • 10.24.2011 6:19 PM PDT
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I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."

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  • 10.24.2011 6:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Old Papa Rich
The only goal as a moderator is for each us to be consistent within ourselves. It is going to be near impossible to have no variance in interpretations of things like "safe for work."

As for topics about sex, I'd say that any of them are toeing the line. There is likely to be a moderator that may feel that it is inappropriate for this site. That doesn't mean that every one of them will be shut down. As for your example, I see a difference between your thread and Recon's. There's some gray area maybe, but there is a difference.


Recon's topic is about a news story about a mother pimping her daughter. Not only is it sex related, it's related to illegal activities.

Mine wasn't (no charges were filed).

I'm not asking for perfection. I'm asking for fairness.

You have your group, you have these forums, you have PMs. I don't think I'm asking for too much when I say that people shouldn't be warned or banned for doing something another mod does.

  • 10.24.2011 6:20 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: coolmike699
Posted by: drummer0702
Oh, it's this time of the month, huh?

Honestly, I think the two of those are a little different since one is talking about people actually doing it vs. what actually is being discussed in Recon's thread. However, I'll say there is obviously more leniency given to moderators in terms of the threads they make. No one is going to be stupid enough to try and derail that thread into something more inappropriate and the OP isn't going to go anywhere terrible with it either.


In my county a few years ago, some police officers got caught speeding by speed cameras. Some of those officers were going to emergencies, but a lot of them weren't.

The cops didn't get out of their tickets just because they're cops. They had to pay just like everyone else. Why shouldn't the mods have to follow the rules they enforce just like we do?
Because we're talking about different sets of rules designed for different purposes. I'm guessing that the ones going to emergencies didn't get a ticket, or got it dismissed. Because speeding laws exist to keep people safe, and the cops going to emergencies were doing so to help keep people safe, so getting some leeway in the law helps the cop achieve the same purpose as the law.

Similarly, rules exist here on B.net to help keep discussions flowing smoothly. I agree with drummer that a moderator's thread enjoys less chance of derailment than someone else's, for obvious reasons that have nothing to do with unfair privilege. That being the case, there's no reason not to allow moderators to post controversial topics that bend the rules, because any related increase in the risk of a controversial thread being derailed is mitigated by the moderator's perceived presence.

That said,
Posted by: coolmike699
I'm not asking for perfection. I'm asking for fairness.

You have your group, you have these forums, you have PMs. I don't think I'm asking for too much when I say that people shouldn't be warned or banned for doing something another mod does.
This, except that it's no secret that they're hardly consistent even with the regular members, when they absolutely should be.

I'm surprised that they haven't developed some kind of internal guidelines amongst themselves to use for questionable threads.

[Edited on 10.24.2011 6:31 PM PDT]

  • 10.24.2011 6:26 PM PDT

Key

I think people need to understand that, due to the highly vague nature of some, if not MOST of the forum rules, interpretations of said rules is bound to be as widely varied as the interpreters themselves. I've used this analogy before and I'll use it again:

Moderators are like Supreme Court Justices. Though it isn't the moderator's duty to constantly uphold and interpret the piece of legislation around which the basis of the law their community is centered, (like it is for the justices) they still do it when they can. As such, the varied views represented by the Supreme Court Justices are bound to be represented equally by the Ninjas.

You're suggested that mods be more consistent and linear in their approach to moderating (as a whole). Well, allow me to provide an example to combat this. I hope Foman doesn't mind being "used", as it were, but I don't think it's any secret that he, especially, dislikes incorrect (and constant) forum copping. Now, how would it be if everyone was as strict as he is on that issue? Everybody would be complaining that all the mods are way too harsh. Adversely, if Foman rescinded his views on the matter in favor of a more conservative application of enforcement and punitive results, people would complain that there is way too much unpunished forum copping going on.

My point is that a varied (yet consistent within the bounds of each individual Ninja) playing field in the department of moderation style is good for the community at large. If I may refer once more to the Supreme Court analogy: if all of the Supreme Court justices were carbon copies of one another, how happy do you think the American people (specifically those belonging to a party opposed to the one which said justices belong to) would feel about such extreme partisanship and single mindedness in the highest level of judiciary review?

As one final note, I'd imagine that it is both not highly practiced and not well looked upon practice for mods to go lockin the threads of other mods (considering both are supposed to have an explicit understanding of the rules).

Just food for thought.

  • 10.24.2011 6:30 PM PDT

Different mods = different judgements. For example I felt that a thread got out of control or if I think an account is an alt to an account that was previously banned, I will PM a moderator about it, like the one sitting in Rich's PM box. If the moderator agrees, the thread gets locked, people get banned. If they disagree, they will disregard your message or tell you to stop PM'ing them about little things.

It's all about perspective. Recon felt that the thread he posted was humorous and appropriate, while Foman thought the thread you posted was inappropriate.

They are people and are on at different times, they all think differently and you can't blame them for that.

[Edited on 10.24.2011 6:41 PM PDT]

  • 10.24.2011 6:40 PM PDT


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Moderators are like Supreme Court Justices.


One of the things about the justice system is how they use "precedence" as a deciding factor in a ton of things. That means that prior decisions by courts are considered to be correct in most all situations (unless it has been overturned on appeal).

This also makes it damn near impossible to correct previous mistakes, which is a big downfall of the system. That same point can be made about moderators. They are required to make decisions, and those decisions set a precedent, which is hard to discard at a later date.

  • 10.24.2011 6:51 PM PDT


Posted by: Sgt Dippinbud

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Moderators are like Supreme Court Justices.


One of the things about the justice system is how they use "precedence" as a deciding factor in a ton of things. That means that prior decisions by courts are considered to be correct in most all situations (unless it has been overturned on appeal).

This also makes it damn near impossible to correct previous mistakes, which is a big downfall of the system. That same point can be made about moderators. They are required to make decisions, and those decisions set a precedent, which is hard to discard at a later date.


Precedents are overturned all the time.

  • 10.24.2011 9:21 PM PDT
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I <3 you too Bungie

Things that shouldn't be locked, or are borderline in a good way get locked all the time. :| Kill-joys.

  • 10.24.2011 9:24 PM PDT
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Ad Astra Per Aspera

Experienced In Life's Little Drama

*yawn*

Moderators make decisions. They will have sex with your g/f and also steal your dog, but there is nothing you can do about it. Deal with it.

  • 10.24.2011 9:26 PM PDT

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