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Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Ruby of the Blue
Answer me this RIGHT NOW: Why does a potentially heroic figure ABSOLUTELY NEED to struggle? Master Chief is heroic because he achieves his goals for the greater good.
Because in nearly every hero story, the struggle is a key part of the hero's journey. Nearly every Greek hero struggled during their journey. The struggle is pretty important. Otherwise if we have a super tough guy who nobody can beat and he can kick ass and chew gum all day long, what's so heroic about him?
Let me give you another analogy then:
Say a soldier can take two paths to rescue a starving middle-eastern family.
The first path is of a canyon filled with tight defenses, complete with multiple soldiers, big guns, etc.
The second path is an underground route that none of them know about that leads to the family.
One path is practically suicide. The other is safer. This isn't an issue of heroism, but of tactical advantage. I mean, what right minded solider would think it would be smart to go into such a deathtrap as the canyon?
The soldier takes the second, underground path. He finds the family, and gets them out of there.
BUT NO. He's not a hero, no, no, no-hahaHAHAHAHAAHAH.
No, he's just a lazy mothertrucker because he was able to get through it all with virtually no trouble! Certainly not a hero! PPPPPPBBBBBBbbbbbbb!
Um, I see what you're doing, but you have the wrong idea. He's still a hero regardless.
Or in an alternate scenario, and a little bit more relevant to Chief, the soldier can choose to either equip himself with a handgun, or a gatling gun. He chooses the gatling gun, takes the first path, and destroys everything in his path in which he finds the family and pulls them out.
But don't worry. COMMON SENSE dictates that he is NOT a hero.
This isn't a video game Ruby, no solider would get a Gatling gun and go guns blazing into an obvious trap. Both would be heroes, but the guy going into the canyon would not realistically survive, so he's more suicidal.
The main reason I view the average Marine as more heroic than Chief is because they are just as brave as Chief despite not having nearly as better gear. Chief is still a hero, but I don't think Chief really fits the hero concept.
So try again.
Posted by: Ruby of the Blue
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I can see what Pred is saying. In the games, I wouldn't consider Chief to be heroic, he's practically an invincible killing machine. In the books he has limits, but those don't transfer into the games.
Honestly, I would say the standard Marines and such are braver.
What makes a hero is not how much he struggled to get to his goal. That makes no sense.
Using that logic, a terrorist who worked extensively on a bomb to blow an orphanage up would also be considered a hero.
What makes a hero is the goal he has actually reached. The struggle to it is completely irrelevant.
Say someone just became a scientist, and just happened to find a cure for cancer ALL BY HIMSELF.
So he ends up saving a bunch of people from the disease; saving them from certain death.
But since it only took him half an hour to find the cure, apparently he's not a hero. That makes sense.
Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: OrderedComa
What defines a hero are his goals, not how difficult his enemies are to defeat >_>
No, being heroic is standing up in the face of impossible odds and having the courage to face him, Master Chief has never really been challenged by anything, thus he is not a real hero, and it makes for better story-telling.
Posted by: OrderedComa
Hell, a truly evil character could face all that you described above, and by what seems to be your definition that villain would be a hero!
I don't care what you think, or how you twist my words, just keep on, it really doesn't phase me.
Posted by: OrderedComa
This honestly makes me think you don't really know what a hero is :/
This honestly makes me think you think I actually care what you think, and that you don't really know what good storytelling is.
Posted by: OrderedComa
Master Chief is a truly heroic character, I don't get how you can't see or acknowledge that!
Quit trying to pass off your opinion as fact, that is your biggest problem, you think the universe revolves around you and your views, news flash; not everybody holds the same beliefs as you.
Posted by: OrderedComa
A hero doesn't care about himself in comparison to others, he strives for goals far larger than himself (saving the universe, saving his race, saving his planet, protecting his leader, protecting innocents around him), and is willing to give it all to achieve those goals, even if it means he has to die in the process.
And now you shift tracks and decide to agree with me all of a sudden? What are you on?
Posted by: OrderedComa
What you described may be part of what a hero has to overcome and what makes someone heroic, but that alone does not make a man a hero.
her·o·ism [her-oh-iz-uhm] noun ~ the qualities or attributes of a hero or heroine: He showed great heroism in battle.
Posted by: OrderedComaMaster Chief is right up there with the likes of King Arthur, Batman, Spider-Man, Aragorn, Gandalf, Luke Skywalker, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Harry Potter, and any other fictional hero you can think of!
How about, no.
Pred your annoying....nobody cares on what you think he was expressing his oppenions not fight you...Go vanish.
Wow in what freaking way is cheif not a hero ?
He destroyed a whole freaking infection that destroyes species almost alone !He defeated a whole alliance of species...He had actually faced IMPOSSIBLE ODDS and done the impossible and saved at least 200 mill humans thats the remains of humanity.
[Edited on 11.01.2011 8:03 AM PDT]