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Subject: ONI has just dug its own grave... GLASSLANDS SPOILERS

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

So, at the end of Glasslands, Halsey is arrested by Parangosky for crimes against humanity and Lucy gives Halsey a good whack round the face. What Parangosky says after shows how very thick these characters are written to be...

Parangosky says that the Spartans will be given full access to their parental records and every detail about their past. Apparently, Parangosky is completely unaware of the consequences that this is going to have... Here's a scenario that follows:

- Fred finds out about his family, all seems tickety-boo as they're still alive so he decides to go pay them a visit, this is his chance to integrate himself into normal human society for the first time since he was 6.

- Fred turns up on their doorstep, awkwardness ensues as he reveals to the woman 3 feet shorter than him that he's her son.

- WHAM! Chain reaction! Other Spartans reveal themselves to their families and there is a massive amount of backlash in the media for Halsey, the woman who turned these children into "monsters" and "freaks". Spartans are segregated from their families because they can't accept what has been done to their children, most of the parents would have moved on from the loss of their children anyway and now they've come back and revealed that they never died. Mental trauma abound!

- Oh, here's a totally unforseeable and cruel plot twist! Halsey reveals that ONI gave her the green light for this project and even funded it, and that ONI themselves got over 900 other children for another Spartan project designed as disposable supersoldiers. Talk about awkwardness in the court room!

- Everyone rises up against ONI, their other twisted experiments are revealed (as Halsey had access to a lot of classified records and spills the beans), the UNSC will attempt to shut down ONI completely and some kind of civil conflict will ensue. Thus, humanity is massively weakened by this series of events.

And then Parangosky starts talking about making more Spartans in a similar fashion to the ORION project, because that went really well, right? Where will the funding come from for this? I guess rebuilding is no longer a priority then if more Spartans are going to be made for some reason we're not told? Spartan-IVs? Is this some kind of fan fiction?

  • 10.26.2011 10:53 AM PDT

Eat, Sleep, Row

Well now I'm definitely not getting glasslands.
PRIMORDIUM FTW!

  • 10.26.2011 10:57 AM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz

I'm not debating against you, I'm with you on most points (I haven't even read Glasslands yet lol), but here's my attempt to cover over some of these things sketchily....

I don't think the parents would instantly reject their Spartan children. They'd probably be freaked out, but yeah I agree this is a bit of a dumb move. Maybe Parangosky is becoming...senile? :P

Halsey is under arrest and probably being kept in some maximum security style prison cell. Doubt she'd be able to leak anything about ONI to the public, but hey, it is Halsey...

The S-IV's may only be in the planning stage, not even picking candidates yet. If they are already in process, then I'd guess ONI must have some reserve of funds of their own. If they don't, then yes; this is a dumb plot hole.

If only Karen had taken the time to "be a fan" and been less stubborn...

  • 10.26.2011 11:20 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Hmm, that seems quite short-sighted of ONI. There is no way that they could deny involvement.

Edit: Lucy, that quite little thing, punches Halsey in the face? Seriously, what for?

[Edited on 10.26.2011 11:26 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2011 11:24 AM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz

Oh yeah that reminds me, this is the only question I have about Glasslands; why does Lucy punch Halsey in the face? Furthermore, should Halsey's face not have CAVED IN from the impact?

  • 10.26.2011 11:33 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: CoolCJ24
I don't think the parents would instantly reject their Spartan children. They'd probably be freaked out, but yeah I agree this is a bit of a dumb move. Maybe Parangosky is becoming...senile? :P


Have you seen Torchwood? There's an episode that deals with this kind of story, a mother loses a child she loves whilst he's young, years pass and eventually she discovers that he's alive. She sees him and he's become a "monster", she rejects him as her son because she can't love him. Whilst this is obviously a totally different universe to Halo, the reaction of the parent is definitely something that'd be typical.

Halsey is under arrest and probably being kept in some maximum security style prison cell. Doubt she'd be able to leak anything about ONI to the public, but hey, it is Halsey...

She'd be put on trial first.

The S-IV's may only be in the planning stage, not even picking candidates yet. If they are already in process, then I'd guess ONI must have some reserve of funds of their own. If they don't, then yes; this is a dumb plot hole.

But why would they plan for a new generation of Spartans when there's nobody to fight right now? Their sole goal should be rebuilding, recolonising and developing, not planning to raise a new army for no reason. The funding would have to be massive for a new Spartan program.

If only Karen had taken the time to "be a fan" and been less stubborn...

Indeed.

  • 10.26.2011 11:37 AM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

There is just no need for S-IVs when there are still 300+ Gamma Company S-IIIs out there. Seriously, the only place I've seen the concept of S-IVs IS fanfiction.

  • 10.26.2011 11:54 AM PDT

Also known as Entropy91
Black Water Ops representative.
See you on the battlefield.

I think Parangosky has been hitting the vodka bottle a little too hard.

  • 10.26.2011 12:11 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: ME7ALMAR7IAN777
I think Parangosky has been hitting the vodka bottle a little too hard.


I think Traviss has been too...

  • 10.26.2011 12:22 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

That just killed my excitement. You don't have to be a genius to see that Parangosky is going off the rocker. That is a horrible, horrible, idea to give them access to family records. What if the families sue ONI for personal damages on account of them having to live through the deaths of their "children"? That is bad publicity.
Edit: One possibility that makes this less idiotic: the families are all dead.

[Edited on 10.26.2011 12:25 PM PDT]

  • 10.26.2011 12:24 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Xd00999
Edit: One possibility that makes this less idiotic: the families are all dead.


A viable possibility, but even then, the Spartans themselves aren't going to be too happy when they see all this stuff that was hidden from them. Some are bound to become vocal about it.

  • 10.26.2011 12:26 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
There is just no need for S-IVs when there are still 300+ Gamma Company S-IIIs out there. Seriously, the only place I've seen the concept of S-IVs IS fanfiction.


Not really trying to pick a bone with you or anything, but do we actually know that they're still around? And if there are still Gamma Spartans around (aside from the ones within the Dyson Sphere) are there enough of them to warrant not needing another Spartan group or project? And you didn't think that ONI/UNSC would want to create more Spartans, I'm not really surprised that there is a prospective Spartan IV Program.

  • 10.26.2011 12:27 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
There is just no need for S-IVs when there are still 300+ Gamma Company S-IIIs out there. Seriously, the only place I've seen the concept of S-IVs IS fanfiction.


Not really trying to pick a bone with you or anything, but do we actually know that they're still around? And if there are still Gamma Spartans around (aside from the ones within the Dyson Sphere) are there enough of them to warrant not needing another Spartan group or project? And you didn't think that ONI/UNSC would want to create more Spartans, I'm not really surprised that there is a prospective Spartan IV Program.

We don't know if they are still around, but I think the remaining Spartans are more than enough. There is 4-5 (can't remember exactly) S-II left and and about a dozen S-IIIs left (Ash and Co. + Sabre team). If 24 Spartans were enough to keep order when Humanity's empire was much larger, then the remaining Spartans must be able to protect the remnants.

  • 10.26.2011 12:32 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
There is just no need for S-IVs when there are still 300+ Gamma Company S-IIIs out there. Seriously, the only place I've seen the concept of S-IVs IS fanfiction.


Not really trying to pick a bone with you or anything, but do we actually know that they're still around? And if there are still Gamma Spartans around (aside from the ones within the Dyson Sphere) are there enough of them to warrant not needing another Spartan group or project? And you didn't think that ONI/UNSC would want to create more Spartans, I'm not really surprised that there is a prospective Spartan IV Program.


That's the thign though, we're never told about Gamma Company. We don't know whether they lived or whether they died, we don't know where they went or what they were doing - basically we just had a Jun pulled on us.

Also, there's absolutely no reason to start making new Spartans when there's no enemy to fight and the sole focus of humanity is to rebuild. But according to Traviss, humanity was able to recover from a war lasting almost 3 decades and costing billions of lives and planets in about 2 months...

  • 10.26.2011 12:34 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
There is just no need for S-IVs when there are still 300+ Gamma Company S-IIIs out there. Seriously, the only place I've seen the concept of S-IVs IS fanfiction.


Not really trying to pick a bone with you or anything, but do we actually know that they're still around? And if there are still Gamma Spartans around (aside from the ones within the Dyson Sphere) are there enough of them to warrant not needing another Spartan group or project? And you didn't think that ONI/UNSC would want to create more Spartans, I'm not really surprised that there is a prospective Spartan IV Program.


If the other Gamma Company S-IIIs aren't alive, then 343 should say so, not keep their fate in limbo like they are doing with Jun.

  • 10.26.2011 12:34 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I've yet to read the book, but the Spartan IV thing isn't exactly a new concept.

While Spartan IV's aren't needed, considering ONI still has 300 Spartan III's from Gamma company, a Spartan IV project wasn't too far off.

You guys remember that Mendez and Kurt were preparing to start training Delta Company? They already had the resources, the children, and the staff prepared to be invested into the project. Just because Oynx and the staff was lost, did you think ONI would scrap the funding and children which were already picked out?

It's only natural that they'd invest the funding into getting new staff and a new location to train the new spartans. However, just like the difference between the II's and III's, since a new staff is being used, and it's under a new "leader" it wouldn't be called "Spartan III's." The children who would have went on to become Delta Company will simply because the new Spartan IV's.

Like I said though, I haven't read the book, and from the moment I heard Traviss say she refused to play/read any of the other Halo material I lost most interest in the book.

  • 10.26.2011 12:36 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: privet caboose


I think a similar thread about Glasslands' problems like you did with Reach would be warranted here Caboose.

  • 10.26.2011 12:37 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: privet caboose
The children who would have went on to become Delta Company will simply because the new Spartan IV's.

Actually, apparently it is modeled on the old ORION project and will use consenting adults, according to a spoiler thread on Waypoint.

  • 10.26.2011 12:45 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: privet caboose

343 should fire Traviss and have you write the book, that makes a lot more sense than what was written by her. The S-IV Project is going to be comprised of adults that have consented to the program, modelled after ORION (because that really worked out great the last time... right, Maggie?)

We're not even told what happened to those children who were supposed to be in Delta.

  • 10.26.2011 12:52 PM PDT
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Thread: "Your way of stopping an asteroid the size of Texas from hitting Earth."

Posted by: AvengerTam1010
launch texas at the asteroid

Maybe Parangosky is letting the Spartans see the family details as...a publicity move? In wake of Halsey's arrest, to try make herself look like she's bringing justice.

It's a long shot.

I'm hitting my head against the wall here. I can't help but feel that every Halo novel that is released is just another time that we have to find ways around how an author has messed up things. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to develop new things for the Halo universe - that's why they're writing the novels! - but when an author outright says they're not going to read into any material of the universe and we just have to sit here and accept something as canon, it makes me a tad bitter.

Why couldn't Nylund have written the post-H3 series? Sure he's not some master writer of all time but at least he's interested in Halo, knows a lot about Halo, and hell I'm sure he enjoys writing about Halo. And he stuck to canon well enough as far as I remember.

  • 10.26.2011 1:17 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Mega Fox
Maybe Parangosky is letting the Spartans see the family details as...a publicity move? In wake of Halsey's arrest, to try make herself look like she's bringing justice.

It's a long shot.

I'm hitting my head against the wall here. I can't help but feel that every Halo novel that is released is just another time that we have to find ways around how an author has messed up things. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to develop new things for the Halo universe - that's why they're writing the novels! - but when an author outright says they're not going to read into any material of the universe and we just have to sit here and accept something as canon, it makes me a tad bitter.

Why couldn't Nylund have written the post-H3 series? Sure he's not some master writer of all time but at least he's interested in Halo, knows a lot about Halo, and hell I'm sure he enjoys writing about Halo. And he stuck to canon well enough as far as I remember.


If it's a publicity move, it definitely isn't going to do ONI any favours in the long-run.

Why Nylund isn't writing the post-Halo 3 series is beyond me. Traviss doesn't have the best track record with her work... Plus, she has the most loathesome attitude with writing for an established universe, it almost makes me angry that she can't be a fan of something or play the games because she's obviously going to miss something.

  • 10.26.2011 1:23 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Mega Fox
Maybe Parangosky is letting the Spartans see the family details as...a publicity move? In wake of Halsey's arrest, to try make herself look like she's bringing justice.

It's a long shot.

I'm hitting my head against the wall here. I can't help but feel that every Halo novel that is released is just another time that we have to find ways around how an author has messed up things. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to develop new things for the Halo universe - that's why they're writing the novels! - but when an author outright says they're not going to read into any material of the universe and we just have to sit here and accept something as canon, it makes me a tad bitter.

Why couldn't Nylund have written the post-H3 series? Sure he's not some master writer of all time but at least he's interested in Halo, knows a lot about Halo, and hell I'm sure he enjoys writing about Halo. And he stuck to canon well enough as far as I remember.


If it's a publicity move, it definitely isn't going to do ONI any favours in the long-run.

Why Nylund isn't writing the post-Halo 3 series is beyond me. Traviss doesn't have the best track record with her work... Plus, she has the most loathesome attitude with writing for an established universe, it almost makes me angry that she can't be a fan of something or play the games because she's obviously going to miss something.

(Mega Fox is my alt, this is still me)

Yeah, to be honest if it was for publicity it's only going to come doubling back on her when all the angry families start raving about how they had their children taken away, and because the families might not necessarily know ONI funded Halsey, might ask "why didn't you stop Halsey, or find out what she was up to??". Of course if they know ONI funded it, ONI is royally screwed.

And I know, I just....I'm finding it hard to type words which express my confusion at what Karen is playing at. What does "not being a fan" achieve? You just end up writing a meh book with several errors (or that's what I've heard, I'll read it myself when I get it...). Surely is she wanted better fan reactions, why doesn't she, gee I don't know, READ INTO THE FICTION?!

Grah! Sorry about this rage, I'm going to go kick some plants to vent frustration...

EDIT: I don't do this often, but this is my current visage if you were curious.

[Edited on 10.26.2011 1:38 PM PDT]

  • 10.26.2011 1:35 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: CoolCJ24

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Mega Fox
Maybe Parangosky is letting the Spartans see the family details as...a publicity move? In wake of Halsey's arrest, to try make herself look like she's bringing justice.

It's a long shot.

I'm hitting my head against the wall here. I can't help but feel that every Halo novel that is released is just another time that we have to find ways around how an author has messed up things. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to develop new things for the Halo universe - that's why they're writing the novels! - but when an author outright says they're not going to read into any material of the universe and we just have to sit here and accept something as canon, it makes me a tad bitter.

Why couldn't Nylund have written the post-H3 series? Sure he's not some master writer of all time but at least he's interested in Halo, knows a lot about Halo, and hell I'm sure he enjoys writing about Halo. And he stuck to canon well enough as far as I remember.


If it's a publicity move, it definitely isn't going to do ONI any favours in the long-run.

Why Nylund isn't writing the post-Halo 3 series is beyond me. Traviss doesn't have the best track record with her work... Plus, she has the most loathesome attitude with writing for an established universe, it almost makes me angry that she can't be a fan of something or play the games because she's obviously going to miss something.

(Mega Fox is my alt, this is still me)

Yeah, to be honest if it was for publicity it's only going to come doubling back on her when all the angry families start raving about how they had their children taken away, and because the families might not necessarily know ONI funded Halsey, might ask "why didn't you stop Halsey, or find out what she was up to??". Of course if they know ONI funded it, ONI is royally screwed.

And I know, I just....I'm finding it hard to type words which express my confusion at what Karen is playing at. What does "not being a fan" achieve? You just end up writing a meh book with several errors (or that's what I've heard, I'll read it myself when I get it...). Surely is she wanted better fan reactions, why doesn't she, gee I don't know, READ INTO THE FICTION?!

Grah! Sorry about this rage, I'm going to go kick some plants to vent frustration...


Don't worry, I've not been this baffled since Attack of the Clones.

  • 10.26.2011 1:38 PM PDT

*sigh* You know, I seriously thought I'd see a better reaction to the book. Perhaps if you paid attention to the foreshadowing, everything would be clearer:

Parangosky does. Not. Give. Two. -blam!-s. About. The. UNSC. We have known for years that she is one spiteful -blam!-, and anyone who crosses her ends up dead. She's the perfect secret keeper. She's feared, cold hearted, in power and old . All she cared about in her incredibly advanced age was the destruction of Halsey.

Parangosky is about to die anyway, she doesn't care. In her mind, all that mattered was that Halsey's life be ruined. And the most devestating thing that could ruin her life was the public revelation of the Spartan program, all of her guilt crashing down on her in one, galaxy-wide swoop. Parangosky is a villain, an evil, cruel, selfish, villain with no moral concerns or boundries whatsoever. She has be such a person in order to run the single most devious organization in known space.

Honestly, I don't get it. Why am I the only person I know of that this doesn't come as a surprise too?

  • 10.26.2011 1:43 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Honestly, I don't get it. Why am I the only person I know of that this doesn't come as a surprise too?


It's because people have different opinions and have interpreted the Halo lore differently over the years. But I know for you it's easy to just call people Bungie fanboys than to actually try to understand our issues.

  • 10.26.2011 1:46 PM PDT

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