Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: ONI has just dug its own grave... GLASSLANDS SPOILERS
  • Subject: ONI has just dug its own grave... GLASSLANDS SPOILERS
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: ONI has just dug its own grave... GLASSLANDS SPOILERS
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Please note that I have not yet read Glasslands, and all the problems/questions I'm bringing up are gathered from what some other members said on a private site.

Why is ONI allowing private companies to create Mark 7? Are they not at all concerned that they might sell it on the Black Market? I'm sure many Innies would want to get their hands on a suit of MJOLNIR, even if they can't use it. Why are they not funding SPI advancements? SPI can be used by a much larger sample base and with a few minor modifications normal humans could use it too. Not to mention ONI just made Mark 6 a few months ago and there are less than 20 people who can use M7. Seems like an awful lot of money to spend on something that has severely limited usage.

  • 10.27.2011 5:29 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member


Posted by: Xd00999
Please note that I have not yet read Glasslands, and all the problems/questions I'm bringing up are gathered from what some other members said on a private site.

Why is ONI allowing private companies to create Mark 7? Are they not at all concerned that they might sell it on the Black Market? I'm sure many Innies would want to get their hands on a suit of MJOLNIR, even if they can't use it. Why are they not funding SPI advancements? SPI can be used by a much larger sample base and with a few minor modifications normal humans could use it too. Not to mention ONI just made Mark 6 a few months ago and there are less than 20 people who can use M7. Seems like an awful lot of money to spend on something that has severely limited usage.


I don't know that the time frame is an issue. I mean, how long did Mark VI come out after Mark V? Pretty damn close, practically before it when you look at some of the fiction.

I'd guess if this much info about the Spartan program is going public (or at least out to the families where it would be quickly public(haven't read the book yet, so I'm just going on the info in this thread)) then the days of disposable Spartans are probably over and thus something better than SPI armor is probably wanted. Maybe Mark VII is a little more scaled down Mjolnir. Less expensive than previous versions, but not as stripped down as SPI.

I don't know, trying to figure out too much while not having read it yet is not the best idea(talking about for myself here), but considering how far Reach seemed from being able to fit into the existing fiction vs what 343 has been able to do to try to reconcile it, this book doesn't seem nearly as much an issue (again based on this thread). Not that it's not worth discussing and figuring out by any means, but I'm a lot less concerned about this so far. Not turned off from reading the book yet at least.

  • 10.27.2011 6:45 AM PDT

yas334229812

Another complaint he did was that ONI dug their grave by giving the spartans access to family documents when in reality they weren't ONI won't take the hit Paragnosky is willing to take all the negative comments with her as she goes to retirement and let Osman take over with a cleaner slate.

This is why they started Spartan 4 program, that included consenting adults so that they can show yes we did all this evil but we were led by Dr.Halsey and that we were at the brink of extinction and so we did something desperate which we know was trully against our beliefs and all, and we are sorry for this thats why we are ending these projects so that no more children can come to harm by them.

Also the public will understand, what could you do humanity was about to die they needed every little second they could get to survive and it worked. Yes the cost was terrible but they survived and now they have a chance of winning.

Also most of the public don't care right now and they just wish that they could get their lives back and start living, also are there any reporting agencies working probably no.

Giving family files were not important as Pragnosky knew that the Spartans won't go looking for their families plus nearly all if not all are dead, the only ones living were the S2's and they came from outer colonies cause their will be less concern and most were dead by now. S3's were orphans as shown in the story Ghost of Onyx. Found from the refugees fleeing the covenant advance. They were willing to do anything to enact their vengence.

Mostly ONI is okay with letting this go public as they know it will and if they don't come out clean and someone else does it for them than the review by the public is bad whereas if they do it themselves the people will understand that they were only looking for the best interest and that as the results show it was the only thing that was working. So the public view won't turn any direction.

Also Paragnosky is trying to divert all the blame to Halsey and by making her on creations hate her it was a way for her to shut Halsey down for good and make sure she can't fight back. She will take the blame unable to think rationally, only able to do her work.

Whereas if any negative attention comes to ONI and that will be less than that Halsey gets Paragnosky will take the blame step down, showing people she's owing up to her part in not stopping this and most people will think it will be a new page turned for ONI.

In fact Paragnosky will go with all the blame and while people think ONI is starting from scratch again and doing their practices ethically she will know that nothing changed and all that she had done will continue. Paragnosky knows she must go due to retirement which is why she is willing to take all the negativity with her so that there is an easier and cleaner playing field for Osman.

  • 10.27.2011 8:06 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Xd00999
Please note that I have not yet read Glasslands, and all the problems/questions I'm bringing up are gathered from what some other members said on a private site.

Why is ONI allowing private companies to create Mark 7? Are they not at all concerned that they might sell it on the Black Market? I'm sure many Innies would want to get their hands on a suit of MJOLNIR, even if they can't use it. Why are they not funding SPI advancements? SPI can be used by a much larger sample base and with a few minor modifications normal humans could use it too. Not to mention ONI just made Mark 6 a few months ago and there are less than 20 people who can use M7. Seems like an awful lot of money to spend on something that has severely limited usage.


These basis have to come from your imagination, also this is mainly cause as cash is still important companies are more willing and have an easier time in creating new and better products faster and the competition between each group gives them an added bonus to try harder.

Gives UNSC a wide range of choice and not need to shove their cash into it while they are busy trying to rebuild their fleets and rebuild their planets.

I have other reasons but i will edit this later to make it longer.

  • 10.27.2011 8:30 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Fearing

Posted by: Xd00999
Please note that I have not yet read Glasslands, and all the problems/questions I'm bringing up are gathered from what some other members said on a private site.

Why is ONI allowing private companies to create Mark 7? Are they not at all concerned that they might sell it on the Black Market? I'm sure many Innies would want to get their hands on a suit of MJOLNIR, even if they can't use it. Why are they not funding SPI advancements? SPI can be used by a much larger sample base and with a few minor modifications normal humans could use it too. Not to mention ONI just made Mark 6 a few months ago and there are less than 20 people who can use M7. Seems like an awful lot of money to spend on something that has severely limited usage.


I don't know that the time frame is an issue. I mean, how long did Mark VI come out after Mark V? Pretty damn close, practically before it when you look at some of the fiction.

I'd guess if this much info about the Spartan program is going public (or at least out to the families where it would be quickly public(haven't read the book yet, so I'm just going on the info in this thread)) then the days of disposable Spartans are probably over and thus something better than SPI armor is probably wanted. Maybe Mark VII is a little more scaled down Mjolnir. Less expensive than previous versions, but not as stripped down as SPI.

I don't know, trying to figure out too much while not having read it yet is not the best idea(talking about for myself here), but considering how far Reach seemed from being able to fit into the existing fiction vs what 343 has been able to do to try to reconcile it, this book doesn't seem nearly as much an issue (again based on this thread). Not that it's not worth discussing and figuring out by any means, but I'm a lot less concerned about this so far. Not turned off from reading the book yet at least.

Yes, the jump from 5 to 6 was quick, but the differences were comparatively minimal. I.E, getting boorish injectors and advanced shielding. Apparently, 7 has Nanotechnology that allows it to take existing materials and use them to repair the suit. If they followed the ideas in Halsey's journal, it also comes with the ability to exit slipspace and all sorts of other goodies. At no point did it strike me that 7 would be cheaper than 6. Mark 7 is definitely head and shoulder above Mark 6, and to make such advancements in such a short time frame seems inconceivable. Absolutely inconceivable!

  • 10.27.2011 9:05 AM PDT

yas334229812

Hell remember there were huge advancements even in the survival rate of spartan augmentation so there could still be advancement. Maybe ONI was only able to get so much money and you know how patent laws are you have to work through them. Maybe the Mark 7 has weaknesses although i have not read the book but if some one was explaining it to a group of people they might just be saying this gives this and this and this but as a salesman never tell the problems.

Also forerunner tech may have a role to play maybe they got their hands on some forerunner skins and just reverse engineered it with some engineers.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 9:13 AM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 9:13 AM PDT


Posted by: Fearing
I don't know that the time frame is an issue. I mean, how long did Mark VI come out after Mark V? Pretty damn close, practically before it when you look at some of the fiction.


Mark VI prototype was out by the time of Reach though.


Posted by: risay_117
Hell remember there were huge advancements even in the survival rate of spartan augmentation so there could still be advancement. Maybe ONI was only able to get so much money and you know how patent laws are you have to work through them. Maybe the Mark 7 has weaknesses although i have not read the book but if some one was explaining it to a group of people they might just be saying this gives this and this and this but as a salesman never tell the problems.

Also forerunner tech may have a role to play maybe they got their hands on some forerunner skins and just reverse engineered it with some engineers.


That's actually different. The augmentations after S2's now had data about human applying, and it was several years before the Spartan 3 project was started.

And I doubt they suddenly found forerunner combat suits :/.

  • 10.27.2011 9:32 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Fearing
I don't know that the time frame is an issue. I mean, how long did Mark VI come out after Mark V? Pretty damn close, practically before it when you look at some of the fiction.


Mark VI prototype was out by the time of Reach though.


Posted by: risay_117
Hell remember there were huge advancements even in the survival rate of spartan augmentation so there could still be advancement. Maybe ONI was only able to get so much money and you know how patent laws are you have to work through them. Maybe the Mark 7 has weaknesses although i have not read the book but if some one was explaining it to a group of people they might just be saying this gives this and this and this but as a salesman never tell the problems.

Also forerunner tech may have a role to play maybe they got their hands on some forerunner skins and just reverse engineered it with some engineers.


That's actually different. The augmentations after S2's now had data about human applying, and it was several years before the Spartan 3 project was started.

And I doubt they suddenly found forerunner combat suits :/.


I know but it was worth trying to find an explanation there needs to be a reason that we can formulate, we have a problem and we need answer. So what other ways could they have done it.

  • 10.27.2011 9:43 AM PDT

Anyone else think that ONI could be possible antagonists in Halo 4-6? I know it's unlikely but it would be pretty cool in my opinion.

  • 10.27.2011 10:05 AM PDT


Posted by: Buzz the Fuzz
Anyone else think that ONI could be possible antagonists in Halo 4-6? I know it's unlikely but it would be pretty cool in my opinion.


Depends if Osman continues with ONI still being full pants on head retarded or actually takes ONI to doing it's job and answering to the UNSC.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 10:07 AM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 10:07 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Wow, yeah, that's not likely to be cheaper. I'd guess perhaps some of these special abilities are probably derived from the studying of Forerunner facilities however and now that we know humans have been studying this stuff for quite a while, very secretly, these advancements could have been worked on (maybe in conjunction with a Mjolnir armor, or perhaps for other unrelated applications originally) behind the scenes for some time and just now brought in. I dunno. Again, I'd have to read the book to start getting too crazy with ideas here or I'm gonna be wasting my time on a pretty shaky foundation for anything I come up with.

  • 10.27.2011 11:33 AM PDT

Yay yuh!!!!!

sounds like im not going to read that book. why would she get in trouble for creating soldiers to save humanity

  • 10.27.2011 12:24 PM PDT

This is gonna sound super fanboyish, but post Contact Harvest, I've just lost interest in the Halo books. I know it's hard to manage such a wide-open universe, but it's been done about a million times before, so there's little excuse. There's nothing wrong with exploring new paths and storylines, but you can still write a good book in the process.

Obviously, just my opinion. Nothing against 343 or the authors or anything, just my thoughts.

  • 10.27.2011 7:46 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: COLONELSANDERSW
sounds like im not going to read that book. why would she get in trouble for creating soldiers to save humanity


Actually she created the soldiers to destroy any rebellion or dissent among the human population. They were later used against the covenant as they were the best way to hold of the wave.

Overall her reason for creating it is not a good one. Although they did do good beyond that.

  • 10.27.2011 7:50 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: risay_117

Posted by: COLONELSANDERSW
sounds like im not going to read that book. why would she get in trouble for creating soldiers to save humanity


Actually she created the soldiers to destroy any rebellion or dissent among the human population. They were later used against the covenant as they were the best way to hold of the wave.

Overall her reason for creating it is not a good one. Although they did do good beyond that.


So because ONI told her to do it, and she did it the best anyone could do, she deserves to be villainized to the point of her being essentially the antichrist?

  • 10.27.2011 7:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: risay_117

Posted by: COLONELSANDERSW
sounds like im not going to read that book. why would she get in trouble for creating soldiers to save humanity


Actually she created the soldiers to destroy any rebellion or dissent among the human population. They were later used against the covenant as they were the best way to hold of the wave.

Overall her reason for creating it is not a good one. Although they did do good beyond that.


So because ONI told her to do it, and she did it the best anyone could do, she deserves to be villainized to the point of her being essentially the antichrist?

Absolutely.
Joking aside, even when the Covenant were not around the Innies were a good reason. These guys are willing to detonate nukes and are capable of getting their hands on them. These guys really do some horrible things.

  • 10.27.2011 8:02 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: risay_117

Posted by: COLONELSANDERSW
sounds like im not going to read that book. why would she get in trouble for creating soldiers to save humanity


Actually she created the soldiers to destroy any rebellion or dissent among the human population. They were later used against the covenant as they were the best way to hold of the wave.

Overall her reason for creating it is not a good one. Although they did do good beyond that.


So because ONI told her to do it, and she did it the best anyone could do, she deserves to be villainized to the point of her being essentially the antichrist?

Absolutely.
Joking aside, even when the Covenant were not around the Innies were a good reason. These guys are willing to detonate nukes and are capable of getting their hands on them. These guys really do some horrible things.


You have a fair point. Although i think the definition of Halsey has become blurred alot especially after reach. Remember she was an ass over there. So maybe there might be a reason that they are trying to change her characteristics to recreate her or maybe its just written in a persons view point who considers her evil.

  • 10.27.2011 9:07 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: risay_117
You have a fair point. Although i think the definition of Halsey has become blurred alot especially after reach. Remember she was an ass over there. So maybe there might be a reason that they are trying to change her characteristics to recreate her or maybe its just written in a persons view point who considers her evil.


Yet is it wise to suddenly change a characters personality when most of us have known the established personality for so long? You can say it's change, but change isn't always good.

  • 10.27.2011 9:08 PM PDT

yas334229812

well yeah there is a sudden change but there should be a reason for it, was she suddenly so preoccupied with her work that she forgot the simple things in life. Maybe saving the world thing with her science may have effected her that she must ignore some people to further her research and maybe as you saw in Reach UNSC stupidity of understanding important targets. Like the zealots that Carter purposefully let live for his mission instead of looking at the bigger picture as to why.

You know i still don't get it but they should give a reason.

  • 10.27.2011 10:34 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I fail to see what is the big problem here.

/My Interpretation
The war has ended, and everyone knows when a war concludes, atrocities leak out, people change, etc.

I don't see this as a canon issue, I see this as a writer's new interpretation of characters.

The characters are acting different, but they are human.

They aren't aligned to any set of principles or routines.

They can change.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 10:56 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 10:52 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to the death to say it!"

"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81


Posted by: anton1792
Hmm, that seems quite short-sighted of ONI. There is no way that they could deny involvement.

Edit: Lucy, that quite little thing, punches Halsey in the face? Seriously, what for?
When she got PO'd at Halsey for harassing engineers, it caused her drugs that make them unstable went off and caused her to go into a rage.

  • 10.28.2011 1:52 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Onyx81
When she got PO'd at Halsey for harassing engineers, it caused her drugs that make them unstable went off and caused her to go into a rage.

What sort of drugs?

  • 10.28.2011 1:56 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

Don't be stupid like I was! Check to see what that Forum Ninja is saying to you!

"I may not like what you say, but I will defend your right to the death to say it!"

"Tolerance is a virtue, and virtue builds character."
-Onyx81


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Onyx81
When she got PO'd at Halsey for harassing engineers, it caused her drugs that make them unstable went off and caused her to go into a rage.

What sort of drugs?
SIII's are given a drug that causes the frontal lobe (I believe) to have lower function, allowing SIII's to take many more bullets before dieing. It also causes their emotional level to be unstable which is why Lucy went into a rage when she got frustrated and mad at Halsey.

Traviss even describes what it's like for Lucy to into a blinding rage so you know what's caused it.

[Edited on 10.28.2011 2:36 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2011 2:35 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Not all of the S-IIIs have that issue, only the latest batch that got chrysanthemum.

  • 10.28.2011 2:42 PM PDT

My YouTube Channel
Bungiepedia Page

"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

Several of you don't know what you're talking about.

Glasslands, page 433-434
**SPOILERS**






"State secrets are to protect society. They should conceal information like jamming frequencies, troop strengths, code words. They shouldn't be used to cover up our most bestial acts or save us from embarrassment. I've drafted a statement about my role in the Spartan program, and I'll be handing it over to the UEG's defense committee in due course. I'm going to die sooner rather than later, and I will not take this to the grave with me." - Admiral Margaret Parangosky

Parangosky is turning herself in; sure, she's 92 and likely to die soon after, but she'll still face punishment.

As far as the public is concerned, Halsey is dead, memorial plaque and everything. Halsey's name might be tarnished, maybe, it depends if the UEG and UNSC have the stomach for sullying a person society thinks is dead. Either way, she'll never truly answer for her crimes.

[Edited on 10.28.2011 2:48 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2011 2:48 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4