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Subject: 343 HAS GONE FULL RETARD:HALO GLASSLANDS SPOILERS.

Haven't posted in a while. I've been trying to stay dark until Bungie releases it's new IP, but after reading Glasslands I had to say something. I understand that 343 is in control of Halo now and feels the need to spread their creative wings and go in different directions and make the series it's own; Cryptum's reversal of the whole Human/Forerunner relationship(still not a fan of), the number of Spartans and ONI's knowledge of Forerunner ruins from the early days of colonization. But after reading the first few chapters of Glasslands and the spoilers for the whole book in general I have to say I'm completely disappointed.

Characters we thought we knew are acting completely out of character; Halsey Mendez suddenly hating each other, Paronosky becoming a spiteful,borderline psychotic hell bent on taking out Halsey for her supposed betrayal, ONI trying to take out their one none human ally Thel in favor of supporting a bunch of religious nutts to make the Elites weaker.

To make things even more unbelievable Paragnosky has Halsey stand trial publicly for her creation of the Spartans and then Halsey publicly outs her for the authorization of the Spartan-2 and 3 Project leading to everyone wanting to dismantle ONI. During all of this the remaining Spartans are given information on their identities and families, some decide to reunite with their long lost love ones. Having thought their children died long ago, these poor people find out their kids are very much alive, the children they thought they lost were clones and their real children were turned into super soldiers.............it doesn't go well. The book ends with Humanity heading towards civil war and Paragnosky planning on making Orion style Spartans.

Now I'm all for plot twists and new directions and breaking the mold...etc, but everything I just read is just plain dumb. All the back stabbing, outing of secret info, characters acting completely different from what we're used to, trying to kill their allies out of paranoia, of all the dumb things to do after surviving near extinction. I think I'm done with anything Halo that 343 releases. I've tried to give their stuff a chance, but so far they haven't held themselves to the same quality standards and consistency that Bungie has with Halo.

Whatever gripes I had over Reach's story and canon breaks I think I understand why Bungie didn't put much effort into it. I get the feeling the folks at Bungie were aware of the changes being made to the lore they crafted over the course of decade and seeing that it wasn't their baby anymore felt no point adding anything significant, so instead they focused on making the game the the best it could be game play wise, graphically and Reach has been one of the funnest Halo games to date. Multiplayer and Firefight are unmatched, Reach is over a year old and Gears 3 and CoD Black Ops doesn't hold a flame to it in online gaming.

Lasty, this is a message for Bungie. If you guys ever by some miracle get Halo back, please forget anything 343 has done with it and tell the story you would have wanted to had you never lost control of the series in the first place. Eagerly awaiting your new series.

Old Salty27

  • 10.26.2011 12:24 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I've been saying that since I learned the Elites allow Brutes to work on their ships and farm for them, both are skills I doubt the Brutes really understand.

  • 10.26.2011 12:35 PM PDT

I feel like I may have gone over board on my rant.

  • 10.26.2011 12:37 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: Old Salty27
I feel like I may have gone over board on my rant.

If the plot is like that, not really.

[Edited on 10.26.2011 12:39 PM PDT]

  • 10.26.2011 12:38 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Maybe the title, I'd tone it down and ease on the caps. Everything else is fine.

  • 10.26.2011 12:38 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Just to clarify, you have definitely read the whole novel, yes? If so can I ask you, what exactly is the deal with the Elite-Brute relations and the Elite-Human relations? I know that the first two chapters referred to Brute-Elite co-operations, and that we got all the negative Sangheili as the impression that nothing had changed over the war (Despite that being made rather obvious). Some clarification would be appreciated, thanks.

  • 10.26.2011 12:39 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: anton1792
Just to clarify, you have definitely read the whole novel, yes? If so can I ask you, what exactly is the deal with the Elite-Brute relations and the Elite-Human relations? I know that the first two chapters referred to Brute-Elite co-operations, and that we got all the negative Sangheili as the impression that nothing had changed over the war (Despite that being made rather obvious). Some clarification would be appreciated, thanks.

Same here, I haven't got the book yet so I am in the dark about most of this.

  • 10.26.2011 12:40 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

watch the civil war create a government along the lines of what the innnies wanted.

Not to mention it doesn't make sense for ONI to start an elite civil war when their boss is starting a human one.

ONI is the problem not halsey, and they need to be shut down.

  • 10.26.2011 12:45 PM PDT

Elite rebels attempt to take out Thel, but fail and Admiral Hood goes to meet with the former arbiter to discuss diplomatic relations.

  • 10.26.2011 12:51 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Old Salty27
Elite rebels attempt to take out Thel, but fail and Admiral Hood goes to meet with the former arbiter to discuss diplomatic relations.


Anything with the Brutes?

  • 10.26.2011 12:54 PM PDT

At least one cool part of the book was when Halsey and the Spartans found Hurugok that managed to bring the Dyson Sphere out of slip-space so they could make contact with an ONI prowler and escape. Of course that leads to Halsey being arrested though.

  • 10.26.2011 12:54 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Old Salty27
Elite rebels attempt to take out Thel, but fail and Admiral Hood goes to meet with the former arbiter to discuss diplomatic relations.

I am aware of this, yes. However I am more asking of what the general attitude towards Humanity is from the Sangheili, if it is at all possible to discern. Is it all "Humans must die" like it was in the first chapters or does this point of view change? Also, are Brutes being allied to Elites expanded upon?

  • 10.26.2011 12:56 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Just to clarify, you have definitely read the whole novel, yes? If so can I ask you, what exactly is the deal with the Elite-Brute relations and the Elite-Human relations? I know that the first two chapters referred to Brute-Elite co-operations, and that we got all the negative Sangheili as the impression that nothing had changed over the war (Despite that being made rather obvious). Some clarification would be appreciated, thanks.


Not all the Brutes joined the Prophets. Some stayed out of a sense of pack-like loyalty to their Elite commanders, some out of fear of their Elite masters being greater then fear of the Prophets, and their own tarnished reputation. The amount of Brutes that stayed, however, is still very small, and even Jul found their sense of loylaty to be baffeling.

  • 10.26.2011 12:56 PM PDT

I'll have to skim back through the first few chapters, it doesn't really get that deep into the Brutes being subservient to Elites. I get the impression that some of the Elites either know enough that not all of the Brutes wanted them dead or some Elites let it go because the needed man power for tasks they usually didn't have to attend to until after the Covenant Civil War.

  • 10.26.2011 12:58 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Old Salty27
I'll have to skim back through the first few chapters, it doesn't really get that deep into the Brutes being subservient to Elites. I get the impression that some of the Elites either know enough that not all of the Brutes wanted them dead or some Elites let it go because the needed man power for tasks they usually didn't have to attend to until after the Covenant Civil War.


Which humanity could've done better in my opinion. After what the majority of Brutes did, I'm surprised they trust them that easily.

  • 10.26.2011 1:00 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Old Salty27
I'll have to skim back through the first few chapters, it doesn't really get that deep into the Brutes being subservient to Elites. I get the impression that some of the Elites either know enough that not all of the Brutes wanted them dead or some Elites let it go because the needed man power for tasks they usually didn't have to attend to until after the Covenant Civil War.


So why are the brutes being slaves to the elites instead of trying to up-bring their own planet?


Seriously, if they brutes could keep that strength and have intelligence of either an elite or human they would be one of the best races.

The only current races that would be on that level are hunters

  • 10.26.2011 1:00 PM PDT

Over all the Elites don't like Humans very much. Some feel guilt, others want to take out earth out of fear Humanity would enact revenge for The Human-Covenant War. Cooler heads seemed to have prevailed because of Thel, but it may very well just be temporary.

  • 10.26.2011 1:02 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Old Salty27
Over all the Elites don't like Humans very much. Some feel guilt, others want to take out earth out of fear Humanity would enact revenge for The Human-Covenant War. Cooler heads seemed to have prevailed because of Thel, but it may very well just be temporary.


Thank god.

  • 10.26.2011 1:03 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Not all the Brutes joined the Prophets. Some stayed out of a sense of pack-like loyalty to their Elite commanders, some out of fear of their Elite masters being greater then fear of the Prophets, and their own tarnished reputation. The amount of Brutes that stayed, however, is still very small, and even Jul found their sense of loylaty to be baffeling.

I see. And the other half? The Elite-Human relations?

  • 10.26.2011 1:11 PM PDT

I will give no more spoilers. I'm in the process of ripping out the pages, taping them end to end rolling into toilet paper.

  • 10.26.2011 1:15 PM PDT


Posted by: Old Salty27
Haven't posted in a while. I've been trying to stay dark until Bungie releases it's new IP, but after reading Glasslands I had to say something. I understand that 343 is in control of Halo now and feels the need to spread their creative wings and go in different directions and make the series it's own; Cryptum's reversal of the whole Human/Forerunner relationship(still not a fan of), the number of Spartans and ONI's knowledge of Forerunner ruins from the early days of colonization. But after reading the first few chapters of Glasslands and the spoilers for the whole book in general I have to say I'm completely disappointed.

Characters we thought we knew are acting completely out of character; Halsey Mendez suddenly hating each other, Paronosky becoming a spiteful,borderline psychotic hell bent on taking out Halsey for her supposed betrayal, ONI trying to take out their one none human ally Thel in favor of supporting a bunch of religious nutts to make the Elites weaker.

First off, you're flat out wrong about the characters. For one, it was no where said anywhere that Mendez and Halsey didn't have some moral issues (which does not translate into hating each other, merely lashing out at the closest target they can find to express their regrets). Second, Parangosky's entire existence is based on revenge. The reason everyone fears her is literally because of her vengeful nature. Remember from Ghosts of Onyx: "to his knowledge, only one person had ever crossed her and lived." That one person was Halsey. Now she's getting her revenge. As for Thel, ONI is thinking the exact same thing as Jul: the Elites will not forget, and being beaten half to death for 30 years will create bad blood and severe xenophobia in humanity and Elites.

To make things even more unbelievable Paragnosky has Halsey stand trial publicly for her creation of the Spartans and then Halsey publicly outs her for the authorization of the Spartan-2 and 3 Project leading to everyone wanting to dismantle ONI. During all of this the remaining Spartans are given information on their identities and families, some decide to reunite with their long lost love ones. Having thought their children died long ago, these poor people find out their kids are very much alive, the children they thought they lost were clones and their real children were turned into super soldiers.............it doesn't go well. The book ends with Humanity heading towards civil war and Paragnosky planning on making Orion style Spartans.

Now I'm all for plot twists and new directions and breaking the mold...etc, but everything I just read is just plain dumb. All the back stabbing, outing of secret info, characters acting completely different from what we're used to, trying to kill their allies out of paranoia, of all the dumb things to do after surviving near extinction. I think I'm done with anything Halo that 343 releases. I've tried to give their stuff a chance, but so far they haven't held themselves to the same quality standards and consistency that Bungie has with Halo.

You're not accepting change, that's the problem. You can't accept character devolopment, and can't accept Bungie's gone. You can't accept ONI's role as a backstabber (which isn't change at all). You can't accept anything new. That is all I see here. I have not seen a single quality reason as to why people hate this book without citing a bogus accusation of mischaracterization and blind paranoia. The characters are devoloping as stated above, and of course the UNSC is paranoid. And I'm not calling you anything negative, but to think otherwise about the UNSC is borderline idiotic. And don't you think the paranoid would make irrational decisions? I see absolutely nothing wrong from what I've read so far.

You're also assuming you know the plots of books two and three.

It just seems to me that you're trying to find excuses to hate this book. I'm all for opinions, but at least when you tell me one, give me a good reason why you believe as you do, and before you think you have a good reason, step back and really look at what's going on.


Whatever gripes I had over Reach's story and canon breaks I think I understand why Bungie didn't put much effort into it. I get the feeling the folks at Bungie were aware of the changes being made to the lore they crafted over the course of decade and seeing that it wasn't their baby anymore felt no point adding anything significant, so instead they focused on making the game the the best it could be game play wise, graphically and Reach has been one of the funnest Halo games to date. Multiplayer and Firefight are unmatched, Reach is over a year old and Gears 3 and CoD Black Ops doesn't hold a flame to it in online gaming.

Lasty, this is a message for Bungie. If you guys ever by some miracle get Halo back, please forget anything 343 has done with it and tell the story you would have wanted to had you never lost control of the series in the first place. Eagerly awaiting your new series.

Fun fact: Bungie gave 343i the story that was to be told by way of the Story Bible. This was going to happen even if Bungie was still in control.

Old Salty27



And your plea to Bungie just reinforces what I was saying earlier. I'm not one to usually straight call people out, but you have every indication of being a Bungie fanboy. The needlessly hating 343i, ignoring facts, and hoping beyond hope Bungie returns whilst also believing that Bungie is devoid of any wrong doing at all.

I'm not trying deliberately to be harsh, but I was legitimately annoyed from having heard the exact same bs over and over again.

  • 10.26.2011 1:16 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I'm not trying deliberately to be harsh, but I was legitimately annoyed from having heard the exact same bs over and over again.


If you keep hearing the same BS over and over again, there may actually be a problem.

  • 10.26.2011 1:18 PM PDT

Does anyone happen to know why Nylund turned down penning the GoO sequel or was he not even asked? I get the feeling had he written this it would have been very different.

  • 10.26.2011 1:18 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Old Salty27
Does anyone happen to know why Nylund turned down penning the GoO sequel or was he not even asked? I get the feeling had he written this it would have been very different.


I don't know to be honest, but considering he appears to like everything 343 is doing, it may not have changed all that much.

  • 10.26.2011 1:20 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Not all the Brutes joined the Prophets. Some stayed out of a sense of pack-like loyalty to their Elite commanders, some out of fear of their Elite masters being greater then fear of the Prophets, and their own tarnished reputation. The amount of Brutes that stayed, however, is still very small, and even Jul found their sense of loylaty to be baffeling.

I see. And the other half? The Elite-Human relations?


A mix of every opinion, reaally. Some like Thel want to join us, some fear our retaliation and want to kick us while we're down, some seem to form ties with humans but still want other human supporters dead, and every facet imaginable in between. Some Elites, for example, have revoked Forerunner religion and even destroyed Forerunner relics in anger, while still others will see those who defiled Forerunner relics burned at the stake (two Elites were, for example, disemboweled and strung up for display by Telcam's group for blasphemy).

It really is chaos in Elite culture right now.

  • 10.26.2011 1:22 PM PDT

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