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This topic has moved here: Subject: Is glasslands an intriguing story, worth-reading? (No spoilers please)
  • Subject: Is glasslands an intriguing story, worth-reading? (No spoilers please)
Subject: Is glasslands an intriguing story, worth-reading? (No spoilers please)

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan 100
Hey, with that, the UNSC could come in and save the sangheili and BAM! The Sangheili start trusting them and relationships increase.

They fail. Hood and Thel, they fail.

The Return is set 6 years after this book and the Sangheili are still having issues with technology and their society. That Ship Master also expresses the wish to torture an injured Human for information that he might not even have, in an attempt to steal whatever Forerunner relic that Humanity were trying to claim there.

They evidently fail, and both sides look as if they go back to being malignant to each other.

Judging from this, I wouldn't be surprised if that story gets retconned in one of the later books.


I bloody well hope not! The Return is an outstanding piece of Halo fiction, Kevin Grace did a fantastic job in setting the stage for a f**cked up post-Halo 3 universe, it's a shame that Traviss shat all over that.

  • 10.27.2011 4:57 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: risay_117

Posted by: grey101
I have still yet to understand how the hell the UNSC was able to unlock forerunner tech in a mere two months without halsey or cortana.

From what i remember it took Halsey more than 20 years to put shields on Mjolnir by reverse engineering jackal shields.
Yet the UNSC can reverse engineer Forerunner technology (which Halsey is the expect and doesn't know much) without halsey,cortana, or even Anders in under 2 months?


So it took over 20 years to understand mere covenant shields with halsey and a wartime economy. Yet two months to understand AND apply forerunner slipspace mechanics to a UNSC ship without halsey and with a "Failing" economy?


You have to be completely stupid to say that nothing is wrong with that. The UNSC doesn't even know how exactly how covenant weaponry works. So how can they jump to understanding forerunner slipspace 3 months after the war?


Karen clearly F***ed up with that. Along with the idea of the UNSC and elites going to war withing the next 30 years or so. Because ONI is obviously going to exterminate the elites from what glasslands has going.


Now i fully understand why Starwars and Gears fans dislike her.

I agree with you that this is the most major concern of the story which superseded the problem of Halsey's characterization.

There must be a reason why, did unlocking the jackel shield which is based on forerunner tech helped them unlock the door to forerunner tech. Did it make the scientist everywhere to recheck their research and did they try to explain problems with the help of A.I.s.



You can not compare weakly reversed engineered shields to slipspace mechanics. You can't do something "minor" in 20 years and do something extremely advanced in 3 months.
for all we know ONI has been working on unlocking forerunner tech for decades behind the scenes, and the forerunner enhanced drives are a prototype. It never states that the thing was designed after the war.

  • 10.27.2011 5:00 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: risay_117
They may fail in changing peoples mindset as it is hard to do, and no one trust each other as the war is still a painfull reminder but it does not mean that they are peacefull and war is not occuring, maybe humanity is living in peace and within the next couple of generation old wounds will clean off.

remember old habits die hard.

It has not occurred to me until just now. I always thought that they would attempt some sort of treaty after 2559, when things had cooled off a bit. But if they are trying it in 2553 then it fails. And from Glasslands, it looks as if the Sangheili never saw anything wrong with butchering Humanity, and ONI are trying to start wars within them, so it looks like they remain hostile towards each other. (This Ship Master wanting to torture Humans and steal technology from us also indicates it) It probably fails because of these hostilities in Glasslands.

I can see us fighting Elites again in Halo 4. 343 sure seem to be twisting it that way. Shame if they do.

  • 10.27.2011 5:02 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: risay_117
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Spartan 100
Probably


Posted by: risay_117
Maybe


lol

This is the best you lot can do? I'm seeing a classic case of twisting facts to theories rather than theories to facts here, and all of your arguments hinge on "oh but MAYBE this happened".


What have you to offer, nothing all you are doing is complaining, i on the other hand am trying to find an answer and a theory that works. That is how progress is made.


lolwut?

So you're going to decide what Traviss intended because it works for you? Yet, according to you, the book is fine, that's the impression you've been giing. Yet now you say that you're trying to find an explanation to justify why what doesn't make sense actually makes sense?

You're beating a dead horse, mate...

Also, you seem to have completely ignored EVERY point I've made just so you can say, "all you do is complain". Apparently my objective posts about the novel has washed right over your head. -_-

Grey on the other hand my other opponent in this argument has some valid points and i understand his annoyance as it has a true fact. Stories are there to get interest what Grey is questioning is reality. We have a good argument going and we are moving back and forth. Yes we may not come to consent but at least we understand that we have to solve this problem.

It's funny because Grey and I have been saying the same thing. You cannot and will not "solve" this problem, you admitting that there's a problem in the first place directly contradicts what you spent all that time on Waypoint saying - that there is no problem.

  • 10.27.2011 5:02 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Spartan 100
Insurectionists, they're already researching more forerunner, specially thanks to those three engineers and they're at 03.

Did I misread this or did you just say Innies are 03?

[Edited on 10.27.2011 5:06 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 5:05 PM PDT

yas334229812

I know but i change my opinion whenever i see something new another reason why, Grey is arguing on technological standpoint wheras you are saying this book is totally horrible and not worth an inch because they overdramatize the characters.

This is my main reason of hostility is that you consider this book horrible for such a minor problem, which could be fixed later on

Also i may have become stubborn on this issue and maybe a bit too harsh on it. I tried to defend Traviss because i feel like she is being unfairly criticized like reach was criticized and i do not believe that it is that big of a hiccup that Reach was.

If i offended you sorry. But i still state my point that Traviss book should not be considered horrible and thrown out in disgust, some other books could have received such treatment.

Here's to hoping she can make up for her mistake, remember this is her writing style and that 343 did try something new and nothing like Reach and this may come to them and they may try to fix it.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 5:12 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 5:07 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: risay_117
I know but i change my opinion whenever i see something new another reason why, Grey is arguing on technological standpoint wheras you are saying this book is totally horrible and not worth an inch because they overdramatize the characters.

This is my main reason of hostility is that you consider this book horrible for such a minor problem, which could be fixed later on.


I was right, you did completely miss what I said... Go back and read again because it clearly went right over your head, or you deluded yourself into reading what you wanted to read.

  • 10.27.2011 5:11 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Xd00999
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan 100
Hey, with that, the UNSC could come in and save the sangheili and BAM! The Sangheili start trusting them and relationships increase.

They fail. Hood and Thel, they fail.

The Return is set 6 years after this book and the Sangheili are still having issues with technology and their society. That Ship Master also expresses the wish to torture an injured Human for information that he might not even have, in an attempt to steal whatever Forerunner relic that Humanity were trying to claim there.

They evidently fail, and both sides look as if they go back to being malignant to each other.

Judging from this, I wouldn't be surprised if that story gets retconned in one of the later books.

I bloody well hope not! The Return is an outstanding piece of Halo fiction, Kevin Grace did a fantastic job in setting the stage for a f**cked up post-Halo 3 universe, it's a shame that Traviss shat all over that.

Grace would have been one of the people who proof read Glasslands. With Glasslands here, I don't like what the Return implies. They even hinted it with the new artbook that came out. "The Sangheili are Halo's definitive enemy" or something to that effect.

*sigh* Oh well, looks like I'll shooting Rtas in the face in Halo 6.

  • 10.27.2011 5:20 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: anton1792
*sigh* Oh well, looks like I'll shooting Rtas in the face in Halo 6.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 10.27.2011 5:22 PM PDT

My honor student can beat up your honor student.

Having read the book in its entirety, I would have to say that it is a departure from what readers might expect to be a "normal" halo book. Action is kept to a minimum, with barely any fighting sequences for large parts of the novel. But, on theflipside, this lack of action allows for character develpoment and for the interaction of characters to force its way to the forefront.

Halsey and Mendez, for example; their relationship is heavily explored. The first two chapters do reflect their relationship for much of the novel, but what people don't realize is their situation. Wouldn't you be a little preturbed after you are stuck inside a bomb shelter with no provisions or contact with the outside world, let alone knowledge that an outside world still exists. You are trapped with half a dozen people you didn;t know existed, that were kept hidden from you, and your with the person who you thought was your friend, but who didn't clue you in to their existance. Yeah, I'd be a little pissed too.

The novel does an amazing job of exploring every possible side to each character; especially Halsey and Paragosky. We see that Halsey is deeply conflicted with her actions now that she has time to think; PAragosky is comign to the realization that she will die and that she needs to rely on others while still maintaining control (hence Kilo-5 nd Osman).

And the timeline... the first 2 chapters throw you off, but it all makes sense by the end. The timeline fits; nothing is ret-conned, but only explained in further detail.

I think its a great book; one that cannot be judged by its cover or first 2 chapters. Read it for yourself before you make an opinion.

  • 10.27.2011 5:24 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: anton1792
*sigh* Oh well, looks like I'll shooting Rtas in the face in Halo 6.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One can hope.

Though I am sure he would be bent out of shape so that we are supposed to hate him if such a thing ever happened, like Halsey.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 5:31 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 5:30 PM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

I like it so far.

Anyone complaining about the Halsey-Mendez angle is blind: Halsey has been a villain since The Fall of Reach, it's just been on the backburner because everything featuring her up until this point has been told from either her perspective or one of her Spartans.

It's probably why she came off as such a -blam!- in Reach; she is one.

  • 10.27.2011 7:09 PM PDT

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Posted by: Primo84
I like it so far.

Anyone complaining about the Halsey-Mendez angle is blind: Halsey has been a villain since The Fall of Reach, it's just been on the backburner because everything featuring her up until this point has been told from either her perspective or one of her Spartans.

It's probably why she came off as such a -blam!- in Reach; she is one.

I still like her anyways.

  • 10.27.2011 7:45 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Primo84
I like it so far.

Anyone complaining about the Halsey-Mendez angle is blind: Halsey has been a villain since The Fall of Reach, it's just been on the backburner because everything featuring her up until this point has been told from either her perspective or one of her Spartans.

It's probably why she came off as such a -blam!- in Reach; she is one.

I have literally never seen anyone suggest Halsey is a villain, only a person willing to make hard choices. Where in Reach does it show Halsey as a villain and not a well intentioned extremist (because there is a difference)?

  • 10.27.2011 7:45 PM PDT

@accordingto343

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Posted by: Primo84
I like it so far.

Anyone complaining about the Halsey-Mendez angle is blind: Halsey has been a villain since The Fall of Reach, it's just been on the backburner because everything featuring her up until this point has been told from either her perspective or one of her Spartans.

It's probably why she came off as such a -blam!- in Reach; she is one.


Halsey a villain? She may be no saint, but I don't see her as a villain. She was conscripted by ONI in what seemed to be their darkest hour and a mounting insurrection hovering over them to save humanity from self-destructing. She even felt terrible after what she had to do, so much so that she wanted to save as many Spartans as she could, and as was told in Ghosts of Onyx, even the S-IIIs she barely met.

And as for her being a -blam!-, unsurprising since Reach was essentially ONI's work.

  • 10.27.2011 7:47 PM PDT

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Well villain might not be the right word but I believe I know what you mean.

  • 10.27.2011 7:48 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Spartan 100
Well villain might not be the right word but I believe I know what you mean.


Morally gray? That bests describes her.

  • 10.27.2011 7:50 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan 100
Well villain might not be the right word but I believe I know what you mean.


Morally gray? That bests describes her.

Even then it is not very dark grey. She feels remorse afterwards and genuinely wanted to help the Spartans get through. At no point does she say "This is a wonderful idea and is in no way morally unjust!".

  • 10.27.2011 7:54 PM PDT

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I'm doing my homework on doctor Halsey.
Thanks Karen Traviss for making it so easy for me! [:)]

  • 10.27.2011 7:54 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..

I'm only about a third through, but so far "The Flood" looks like Cryptum or GoO in comparison to this abomination.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 7:55 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 7:55 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Spartan 100
I'm doing my homework on doctor Halsey.
Thanks Karen Traviss for making it so easy for me! [:)]


Even though her characterization of Halsey is completely wrong?

  • 10.27.2011 8:13 PM PDT

It's convenient that Mendez begins to have thoughts about the Spartan project being wrong, after four different groups.

There was a hefty break between S2's and S3 alpha company, why not then?

Also found it just sad and bad that suddenly the two of them hate each other (Mendez and Halsey), and Mendez isn't sure if he would rather split food to help keep her alive, or let her starve and die.

And that he constantly (in the bit I read) hinted that Halsey purposefully keeps others in the dark to benefit herself, and possibly harm others.

  • 10.27.2011 9:32 PM PDT

yas334229812


Maybe you are right that i have lost my mind, i might be overthinking and not thinking rationally.

I am sorry for all the stupid things i said and any false accusation. Though for one thing i just do not want you to be so negative of the book yes the problems are there but at least there must be some good parts to it.

Know what i think my arguments are not worth it, i will stop posting on this topic unless i have something substantial with sources. And i may change sides.

Just to say i think my arhument was mainly to give hope that this book is not that bad. Also it may be because you may have used too harsh of words.

Still i will accept any stupid comment i made and am really sorry for them.
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: risay_117
I know but i change my opinion whenever i see something new another reason why, Grey is arguing on technological standpoint wheras you are saying this book is totally horrible and not worth an inch because they overdramatize the characters.

This is my main reason of hostility is that you consider this book horrible for such a minor problem, which could be fixed later on.


I was right, you did completely miss what I said... Go back and read again because it clearly went right over your head, or you deluded yourself into reading what you wanted to read.

  • 10.27.2011 11:04 PM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

I have to admit, I had higher hopes for you guys. Then again, after seeing so many people in this forum claim that Jorge was a "good" character, I should have seen this coming.

Halsey is a war criminal, as are Mendez, Parangosky, and every other willing participant in the SPARTAN-II project.

I made a thread about this a while back, and it went over a lot of people's heads. It's probably the same reason my favorite novel is Contact Harvest, it shares parallels with real life current events. The Insurrection is essentially a parallel to modern terrorism, only in the Halo Universe, the Insurrection's gripes are legit, and their demands doable.

Halsey had an ego so large that it's a surprise the universe could physically contain it. Given her attitude toward Ackerson, her possessiveness of her work, and her need to try and be involved in everything, it's a shock that she ever felt guilt to begin with.

If she had been truly doing everything for the sake of humanity, and not her own self-interests, wouldn't you think she'd be a bit more forthcoming with her work? When faced with the truth that there had been another Spartan program done without her knowing, she seemed more so offended that they had used her work and replicated her program rather than that she'd been kept in the dark about it.

"Blah blah blah, Covenant War," some of you might say. Funny that Halsey's actions can only truly be justified/rationalized in hindsight. Years had gone into planning the SPARTAN-II project; well before the Covenant War, and if anyone paid attention to her journal, before the Insurrection had been exacerbated with the use of nuclear weapons.

She wanted free reign to do whatever the hell she felt like: she was a monster.

This only seems new because everything we've seen of her so far has been either from her own perspective, or that of a SPARTAN-II, who all idolize her.

If this is really the first time some of you have thought of this, I kind of wonder how you manage the parts of the books that aren't all 'pew pew, boom!'.

  • 10.28.2011 3:33 AM PDT