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Subject: Why is this even a rule?

Hello, I'm Mr AwesomePizza. I like pizza and I'm a man. Reasoning for the name. I like to listen to the classics of music, write poetry, play video games, and much much more. I'm always down for a nice chat, so please hit me up for some conversation.

Alright, this has been bothering me for a long time now. In the rules, it says this:
- Do not post false information or mislead other forum-goers. Yes, even if it is funny. Thing is, everyone has does this. Yes, everyone. I've seen new members all the way to mods do this. And I admit that I do this as well. Everyone does it, so why is it a rule? For example, just look at this thread. Mods, and regular users joked about it, even though we know it's not true. (I did it as well)

Now, I don't propose a great banning on everyone who broke this rule, or even a warning. Because if this were to happen, half of the members here would be banned. I propose that the rule be slightly changed.

If you agree with me, say why. If not, say why.
Let the discussion of this thread...
BEGIN!

EDIT: I just want the rule to have better clarification, other than the "Use your common sense" idea.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 4:36 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 12:34 PM PDT

lolnope.

Might as well remove it. And I'm too lazy to tell you right now why I agree. So maybe later on I'll explain why I support it. lol

[Edited on 10.27.2011 12:41 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 12:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

I disagree.

Once again, there's the need to point out here that the new rules allows for a judgment call by the moderators. While there is definitely something to be said for the "long version" of the rules that list every possible violation in nitpicky detail, those rules were done away with. Now, instead of trying to nail down every rule to the finest possible specifics, the Web Team has opted for a more "common sense"-based approach. In fact, this term is even used in our forum rules.

In the example thread you linked, it was pretty obvious that the OP was simply asking what was up with the strange sayings. He received multiple correct answers to his question and even replied "(haha)" to some of the joking. Clearly, nobody was actually attempting to mislead him, nor was he actually misled. If it appeared that he had been, I have zero doubt whatsoever that many people would have corrected any misperceptions/misinterpretations.

From a common sense perspective, this example is a huge difference from a thread where a user is asking how to change his linked gamertag and someone replies "delete your system32 file." That's an example of something that may be funny to some outside observers, but harmful to at least one other user and thus inappropriate here.

The rules are meant for you to use common sense and for moderators to use their discretion. For some people who lack common sense, this may pose a problem, but such people rarely ever read forum rules in the first place.

The thought of removing this rule is out of the question. Nor does it need to be changed in any way.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 12:46 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 12:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: x Foman123 x
While there is definitely something to be said for the "long version" of the rules that list every possible violation in nitpicky detail
For example, they were terrible, they were stupid, they were short sighted, they were a grammatical nightmare, they were penned by committee and that we're all happily dancing on their collective grave.

  • 10.27.2011 12:44 PM PDT

/satire is allowed by the rules
/ has gotten warned/banned for misleading people while making a satirical thread that offended absolutely nobody

  • 10.27.2011 12:48 PM PDT

Key

I think enforcing the rule is reserved for extreme cases. For example, VII Toast telling that dude to delete System 32. Probably funny at the time, but (IIRC) the guy actually did it. The joke is no longer funny and becomes a legitimate problem.

  • 10.27.2011 12:51 PM PDT
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  • 10.27.2011 12:52 PM PDT

Hello, I'm Mr AwesomePizza. I like pizza and I'm a man. Reasoning for the name. I like to listen to the classics of music, write poetry, play video games, and much much more. I'm always down for a nice chat, so please hit me up for some conversation.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
I disagree.

Once again, there's the need to point out here that the new rules allows for a judgment call by the moderators. While there is definitely something to be said for the "long version" of the rules that list every possible violation in nitpicky detail, those rules were done away with. Now, instead of trying to nail down every rule to the finest possible specifics, the Web Team has opted for a more "common sense"-based approach. In fact, this term is even used in our forum rules.

In the example thread you linked, it was pretty obvious that the OP was simply asking what was up with the strange sayings. He received multiple correct answers to his question and even replied "(haha)" to some of the joking. Clearly, nobody was actually attempting to mislead him, nor was he actually misled. If it appeared that he had been, I have zero doubt whatsoever that many people would have corrected any misperceptions/misinterpretations.

From a common sense perspective, this example is a huge difference from a thread where a user is asking how to change his linked gamertag and someone replies "delete your system32 file." That's an example of something that may be funny to some outside observers, but harmful to at least one other user and thus inappropriate here.

The rules are meant for you to use common sense and for moderators to use their discretion. For some people who lack common sense, this may pose a problem, but such people rarely ever read forum rules in the first place.

The thought of removing this rule is out of the question. Nor does it need to be changed in any way.
I still say the rule needs a little more clarification. Maybe saying that it must not be harmful, because looking at it I'd think joking about stuff is a crime. Sure you can argue that the rules should just be used as common sense, but it says even if it is funny.

My personal common sense tells me not to make any sort of joke on facts. Not, "You can make a joke just make sure it's not way off and could get them banned/do something stupid."

[Edited on 10.27.2011 12:59 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 12:53 PM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

Short answer: context matters.

Remember, the entire rules can be summed up as "Play nice, don't be a jerk." Apply that to the context of the conversation. Is this false information just a friendly joke between a few friends, or is it the post of some tool trying to get his jollies by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory (as an example)? See? Not that hard.

The rule stays as is.

  • 10.27.2011 1:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Pyro
I play for fun and armory completion. :)


Posted by: Achronos
by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory


But it fixes your lag, look at all the memory it takes up!

  • 10.27.2011 1:37 PM PDT


Posted by: Achronos
Short answer: context matters.

Remember, the entire rules can be summed up as "Play nice, don't be a jerk." Apply that to the context of the conversation. Is this false information just a friendly joke between a few friends, or is it the post of some tool trying to get his jollies by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory (as an example)? See? Not that hard.

The rule stays as is.


So, why can't you simply add the word "maliciously" to the rule? It's one word, and it would make the rule perfectly convey what you mean, without making us guess.

Is this stubbornness for stubbornness' sake, or is there a perfectly good reason not to change it?

  • 10.27.2011 1:39 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Pyro
I play for fun and armory completion. :)


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Achronos
Short answer: context matters.

Remember, the entire rules can be summed up as "Play nice, don't be a jerk." Apply that to the context of the conversation. Is this false information just a friendly joke between a few friends, or is it the post of some tool trying to get his jollies by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory (as an example)? See? Not that hard.

The rule stays as is.


So, why can't you simply add the word "maliciously" to the rule? It's one word, and it would make the rule perfectly convey what you mean, without making us guess.

Is this stubbornness for stubbornness' sake, or is there a perfectly good reason not to change it?


The main point is that it deters people from trying to push the limit. People have different definitions of malicious, if the rule basically prohibits it, it ensures that people will have second thoughts before deliberately misleading people, while those who are confident that it will only be taken as humor will continue to do so. Why? Because they know that they won't be banned for a joke if it doesn't really hurt anybody.

  • 10.27.2011 1:42 PM PDT


Posted by: x Foman123 x
I disagree.

Once again, there's the need to point out here that the new rules allows for a judgment call by the moderators. While there is definitely something to be said for the "long version" of the rules that list every possible violation in nitpicky detail, those rules were done away with. Now, instead of trying to nail down every rule to the finest possible specifics, the Web Team has opted for a more "common sense"-based approach. In fact, this term is even used in our forum rules.

In the example thread you linked, it was pretty obvious that the OP was simply asking what was up with the strange sayings. He received multiple correct answers to his question and even replied "(haha)" to some of the joking. Clearly, nobody was actually attempting to mislead him, nor was he actually misled. If it appeared that he had been, I have zero doubt whatsoever that many people would have corrected any misperceptions/misinterpretations.

From a common sense perspective, this example is a huge difference from a thread where a user is asking how to change his linked gamertag and someone replies "delete your system32 file." That's an example of something that may be funny to some outside observers, but harmful to at least one other user and thus inappropriate here.

The rules are meant for you to use common sense and for moderators to use their discretion. For some people who lack common sense, this may pose a problem, but such people rarely ever read forum rules in the first place.

The thought of removing this rule is out of the question. Nor does it need to be changed in any way.


Clearly, the test you use to determine wether something is against the rules here is "Could this reasonably cause harm if the poerson was to believe it?" Which is a good test.

  • 10.27.2011 1:45 PM PDT


Posted by: Cycle22

Posted by: Achronos
by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory


But it fixes your lag, look at all the memory it takes up!
Haha!

  • 10.27.2011 1:46 PM PDT


Posted by: Cycle22

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Achronos
Short answer: context matters.

Remember, the entire rules can be summed up as "Play nice, don't be a jerk." Apply that to the context of the conversation. Is this false information just a friendly joke between a few friends, or is it the post of some tool trying to get his jollies by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory (as an example)? See? Not that hard.

The rule stays as is.


So, why can't you simply add the word "maliciously" to the rule? It's one word, and it would make the rule perfectly convey what you mean, without making us guess.

Is this stubbornness for stubbornness' sake, or is there a perfectly good reason not to change it?


The main point is that it deters people from trying to push the limit. People have different definitions of malicious, if the rule basically prohibits it, it ensures that people will have second thoughts before deliberately misleading people, while those who are confident that it will only be taken as humor will continue to do so. Why? Because they know that they won't be banned for a joke if it doesn't really hurt anybody.


There is only one definition of "malicious" in this context. If someone has a different one, then they're wrong.

  • 10.27.2011 1:48 PM PDT

Posted by: Lord Pyro
I play for fun and armory completion. :)


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Cycle22

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Achronos
Short answer: context matters.

Remember, the entire rules can be summed up as "Play nice, don't be a jerk." Apply that to the context of the conversation. Is this false information just a friendly joke between a few friends, or is it the post of some tool trying to get his jollies by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory (as an example)? See? Not that hard.

The rule stays as is.


So, why can't you simply add the word "maliciously" to the rule? It's one word, and it would make the rule perfectly convey what you mean, without making us guess.

Is this stubbornness for stubbornness' sake, or is there a perfectly good reason not to change it?


The main point is that it deters people from trying to push the limit. People have different definitions of malicious, if the rule basically prohibits it, it ensures that people will have second thoughts before deliberately misleading people, while those who are confident that it will only be taken as humor will continue to do so. Why? Because they know that they won't be banned for a joke if it doesn't really hurt anybody.


There is only one definition of "malicious" in this context. If someone has a different one, then they're wrong.



Not really, for example, someone could post "Delete system32" as a joke, thinking no one could be stupid enough to actually do it, whereas someone else might think "what a terrible person, trying to ruin someone's computer". The first poster most likely does not want them to actually delete system32, they are trying to be funny, while others see it as malicious intent.

  • 10.27.2011 1:52 PM PDT


Posted by: Cycle22

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Cycle22

Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Achronos
Short answer: context matters.

Remember, the entire rules can be summed up as "Play nice, don't be a jerk." Apply that to the context of the conversation. Is this false information just a friendly joke between a few friends, or is it the post of some tool trying to get his jollies by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory (as an example)? See? Not that hard.

The rule stays as is.


So, why can't you simply add the word "maliciously" to the rule? It's one word, and it would make the rule perfectly convey what you mean, without making us guess.

Is this stubbornness for stubbornness' sake, or is there a perfectly good reason not to change it?


The main point is that it deters people from trying to push the limit. People have different definitions of malicious, if the rule basically prohibits it, it ensures that people will have second thoughts before deliberately misleading people, while those who are confident that it will only be taken as humor will continue to do so. Why? Because they know that they won't be banned for a joke if it doesn't really hurt anybody.


There is only one definition of "malicious" in this context. If someone has a different one, then they're wrong.



Not really, for example, someone could post "Delete system32" as a joke, thinking no one could be stupid enough to actually do it, whereas someone else might think "what a terrible person, trying to ruin someone's computer". The first poster most likely does not want them to actually delete system32, they are trying to be funny, while others see it as malicious intent.


Could it reasonably cause harm if the person was to believe it?

Yes?

Then it's malicious.

  • 10.27.2011 1:57 PM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything


Posted by: Cycle22

Posted by: Achronos
by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory


But it fixes your lag, look at all the memory it takes up!

Just download more RAM, no need to delete anything.

  • 10.27.2011 2:32 PM PDT

δόξει τις ἀμαθεῖ σοφὰ λέγων οὐκ εὖ φρονεῖν.

Euripides, Bacchae. 480.


Posted by: x Foman123 x
common sense


Strange that the term seems undefinable. Convenient, even.

Posted by: Achronos
"Play nice, don't be a jerk."


Same problem.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 3:24 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 3:22 PM PDT


Posted by: Heliossoileh1

Posted by: x Foman123 x
common sense


Strange that the term seems undefinable. Convenient, even.

Posted by: Achronos
"Play nice, don't be a jerk."


Same problem.


Unfortunately, there's nothing that will be done about this. I made a thread about it, which only ended up as a massive failure on my part and a waste of my time.

  • 10.27.2011 3:30 PM PDT

Becuase that's not nice!

Just download more RAM, no need to delete anything.
I take it this is fake? Or not?

[Edited on 10.27.2011 3:32 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 3:32 PM PDT

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Posted by: Achronos
Short answer: context matters.

And He has spoken!

  • 10.27.2011 3:35 PM PDT

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  • 10.27.2011 3:41 PM PDT

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Posted by: Noob Eater1053
Becuase that's not nice!

Just download more RAM, no need to delete anything.
I take it this is fake? Or not?
It's completely legitimate. I downloaded by breakfast from there this morning.

  • 10.27.2011 4:24 PM PDT

-Avatar-

I work for the Department of Defense.


Posted by: Cycle22

Posted by: Achronos
by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory


But it fixes your lag, look at all the memory it takes up!



Laughed hard.

  • 10.27.2011 4:26 PM PDT

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