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Subject: Why is this even a rule?

Hello, I'm Mr AwesomePizza. I like pizza and I'm a man. Reasoning for the name. I like to listen to the classics of music, write poetry, play video games, and much much more. I'm always down for a nice chat, so please hit me up for some conversation.

Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
I understand it perfectly, I'm just worried for the newer members.
The only people who read the rules with this much attention to detail are existing users looking for loopholes to either exploit or complain about. I.e., not new users.
When I read the new rules the first time, that bothered me. And I was new when the update came in. I just like things to be clearly stated, like I said before. I'm not complaining, I was just showing an error.

  • 10.27.2011 7:03 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
I personally liked the old rules better. It left less guessing. But if you link a shock site or any other inappropriate site, you would be breaking this rule:
- Use common sense.
This entire debate is breaking this rule.
No it's not.
I'm just saying that the rule needs better explanation.
And you want that explanation to reduce confusion, right?

Well I am saying that more explanation actually creates more to be confused about.

And think of it this way: okay, you want more explanation on this one issue about this one rule. Okay, we do that. But then there are other loopholes in other rules that might be cured with more explanation, so we add to them, too. But then by creating explanations, we create additional loopholes (this is inevitable). Those in turn would require even additional explanation to clarify. Where does it end?

  • 10.27.2011 7:04 PM PDT

Hello, I'm Mr AwesomePizza. I like pizza and I'm a man. Reasoning for the name. I like to listen to the classics of music, write poetry, play video games, and much much more. I'm always down for a nice chat, so please hit me up for some conversation.

Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
I personally liked the old rules better. It left less guessing. But if you link a shock site or any other inappropriate site, you would be breaking this rule:
- Use common sense.
This entire debate is breaking this rule.
No it's not.
I'm just saying that the rule needs better explanation.
And you want that explanation to reduce confusion, right?

Well I am saying that more explanation actually creates more to be confused about.

And think of it this way: okay, you want more explanation on this one issue about this one rule. Okay, we do that. But then there are other loopholes in other rules that might be cured with more explanation, so we add to them, too. But then by creating explanations, we create additional loopholes (this is inevitable). Those in turn would require even additional explanation to clarify. Where does it end?
It is not going to end in endless loopholes, you have no evidence to say that it would. At one point, the rules would become undeniably explainable. Sure with very minor loopholes, but those minor loopholes would not cause a problem.

  • 10.27.2011 7:07 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
It is not going to end in endless loopholes, you have no evidence to say that it would.
I do have evidence to say that it would--the U.S. federal income tax code. It keeps getting bigger and they keep finding more loopholes, and if you disagree I work with about 30 tax accountants whose mere existence dictates otherwise.

At one point, the rules would become undeniably explainable. Sure with very minor loopholes, but those minor loopholes would not cause a problem. Where's your evidence?

  • 10.27.2011 8:12 PM PDT

Hello, I'm Mr AwesomePizza. I like pizza and I'm a man. Reasoning for the name. I like to listen to the classics of music, write poetry, play video games, and much much more. I'm always down for a nice chat, so please hit me up for some conversation.

Posted by: RighteousTyrant
I do have evidence to say that it would--the U.S. federal income tax code. It keeps getting bigger and they keep finding more loopholes, and if you disagree I work with about 30 tax accountants whose mere existence dictates otherwise.
Do you really think that Bungie would need to be updated for every minor loophole like the US? I'm just saying that loopholes, not minor ones, need to be fixed.
Where's your evidence?In the old rules, I never heard of anyone misunderstanding them. Even with the minor loopholes, people understood them. With the new rules, I see people all the time questioning certain rules. This thread could be considered an example to an extent.

  • 10.27.2011 8:21 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."


Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
I do have evidence to say that it would--the U.S. federal income tax code. It keeps getting bigger and they keep finding more loopholes, and if you disagree I work with about 30 tax accountants whose mere existence dictates otherwise.
Do you really think that Bungie would need to be updated for every minor loophole like the US? I'm just saying that loopholes, not minor ones, need to be fixed.
Where's your evidence?In the old rules, I never heard of anyone misunderstanding them. Even with the minor loopholes, people understood them. With the new rules, I see people all the time questioning certain rules. This thread could be considered an example to an extent.
That's the fun thing, though. The rules are up to interpretation.

  • 10.27.2011 8:24 PM PDT

Hello, I'm Mr AwesomePizza. I like pizza and I'm a man. Reasoning for the name. I like to listen to the classics of music, write poetry, play video games, and much much more. I'm always down for a nice chat, so please hit me up for some conversation.

Posted by: dmg04

Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
I do have evidence to say that it would--the U.S. federal income tax code. It keeps getting bigger and they keep finding more loopholes, and if you disagree I work with about 30 tax accountants whose mere existence dictates otherwise.
Do you really think that Bungie would need to be updated for every minor loophole like the US? I'm just saying that loopholes, not minor ones, need to be fixed.
Where's your evidence?In the old rules, I never heard of anyone misunderstanding them. Even with the minor loopholes, people understood them. With the new rules, I see people all the time questioning certain rules. This thread could be considered an example to an extent.
That's the fun thing, though. The rules are up to interpretation.
That is a major problem I have with them. My interpretation might be different from yours.

  • 10.27.2011 8:29 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
In the old rules, I never heard of anyone misunderstanding them. Even with the minor loopholes, people understood them.
Sure. They were "understood" so well that they had to be updated every other week just to keep up with the new ways people found to be stupid without "breaking the rules".

Is it really so hard to understand that you should just not be a jerk?

[Edit: Of course by "you" I mean a generic third person, since afaik we aren't talking about anything you or anyone else has done.]

[Edited on 10.27.2011 8:36 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 8:34 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!


Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
I do have evidence to say that it would--the U.S. federal income tax code. It keeps getting bigger and they keep finding more loopholes, and if you disagree I work with about 30 tax accountants whose mere existence dictates otherwise.
Do you really think that Bungie would need to be updated for every minor loophole like the US? I'm just saying that loopholes, not minor ones, need to be fixed.
"Minor" is up to interpretation. IMO, the issue that this thread is about is one of the most minor issues I can imagine. So what is minor to you may not be to someone else. And here we will be again.

Where's your evidence?In the old rules, I never heard of anyone misunderstanding them. Even with the minor loopholes, people understood them. With the new rules, I see people all the time questioning certain rules. This thread could be considered an example to an extent.You're joking, right?

You said earlier yourself that you were new here when the new rules took effect. Join dates usually aren't relevant, but in this case they are, and as it turns out you spent about 3 months under the old regime. Suffice to say that if you didn't see any confusion about the rules in that time, it's because you were not looking hard enough.

  • 10.27.2011 8:41 PM PDT

Posted by: Dustin 6047
Troll confirmed. I never even insulted you

Posted by: Dustin 6047
OP - You're a dumbass with the reading comprehension skills of a second grader.


Can someone tell me what's wrong with these two, this made me LOL hard.


Posted by: RighteousTyrant

Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
I do have evidence to say that it would--the U.S. federal income tax code. It keeps getting bigger and they keep finding more loopholes, and if you disagree I work with about 30 tax accountants whose mere existence dictates otherwise.
Do you really think that Bungie would need to be updated for every minor loophole like the US? I'm just saying that loopholes, not minor ones, need to be fixed.
"Minor" is up to interpretation. IMO, the issue that this thread is about is one of the most minor issues I can imagine. So what is minor to you may not be to someone else. And here we will be again.

Where's your evidence?In the old rules, I never heard of anyone misunderstanding them. Even with the minor loopholes, people understood them. With the new rules, I see people all the time questioning certain rules. This thread could be considered an example to an extent.You're joking, right?

You said earlier yourself that you were new here when the new rules took effect. Join dates usually aren't relevant, but in this case they are, and as it turns out you spent about 3 months under the old regime. Suffice to say that if you didn't see any confusion about the rules in that time, it's because you were not looking hard enough.
I spent 3 years under the old regime and I kind of liked the old rules. It was straightforward and didn't make anyone question why they got banned. I got banned twice so far, but my recent one made me question why I got banned. The first one, I knew.

  • 10.27.2011 9:16 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Mythic Member

R.I.P. DeathPimp. Never Ending Respect.

"Posted by: Kickimanjaro
I'm trying to become an '04, but it's not working too well."


Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
That is a major problem I have with them. My interpretation might be different from yours.
It's pretty obvious when something is rulebreaking. If you find yourself in doubt, don't post it.


or do. Just live with the consequences.

and when i say live with it, i mean forget about it the moment it happens because this is a web forum.

  • 10.27.2011 11:12 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

To be plain and simple: The old rules were a mess. The bad thing about them was that additions were being made for every single thing, and soon it became a chore to even look at them. Even when examples were included, because something wasn't listed, people thought they could get away with it, and eventually we would add it, and then it would repeat.

The rules we have currently allow MUCH more leeway for everyone.

  • 10.27.2011 11:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Dustin 6047
Troll confirmed. I never even insulted you

Posted by: Dustin 6047
OP - You're a dumbass with the reading comprehension skills of a second grader.


Can someone tell me what's wrong with these two, this made me LOL hard.


Posted by: Duardo
To be plain and simple: The old rules were a mess. The bad thing about them was that additions were being made for every single thing, and soon it became a chore to even look at them. Even when examples were included, because something wasn't listed, people thought they could get away with it, and eventually we would add it, and then it would repeat.

The rules we have currently allow MUCH more leeway for everyone.
So, the rules are based off of interpretation?

  • 10.28.2011 2:31 AM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.

False =/= Sarcasm

Tricking people is wrong. The tricked spread the word.

[Edited on 10.28.2011 2:51 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2011 2:50 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

Posted by: Sergeant Kyuun
So, the rules are based off of interpretation?
Absolutely. All decent rule systems are. It's impossible to predict all forms of disobedience, so it's just better to pick people with good judgment and let them have some leeway.

I would imagine that there are informal conversations happening behind the scenes though, to try to keep the enforcement somewhat consistent.

  • 10.28.2011 3:23 AM PDT

Hello, I'm Mr AwesomePizza. I like pizza and I'm a man. Reasoning for the name. I like to listen to the classics of music, write poetry, play video games, and much much more. I'm always down for a nice chat, so please hit me up for some conversation.

Posted by: RighteousTyrant
"Minor" is up to interpretation. IMO, the issue that this thread is about is one of the most minor issues I can imagine. So what is minor to you may not be to someone else. And here we will be again.
Minor is not really left to interpretation. Minor means not serious, or important. But this is serious. Whether you like it or not, this thread is dealing with an existing rule that may cause confusion. The rule currently implies that any funny thing will not be tolerated, but then we have moderators/employees saying that you're allowed to joke about it, as long as it doesn't cause harm. Thing is, it is not listed in the rule so that we know.

You're joking, right?

You said earlier yourself that you were new here when the new rules took effect. Join dates usually aren't relevant, but in this case they are, and as it turns out you spent about 3 months under the old regime. Suffice to say that if you didn't see any confusion about the rules in that time, it's because you were not looking hard enough.
You're right that I did not have a lot of time dealing with the old rules, but in my brief time I never noticed anyone questioning the rules as much as now. I was subjected to a warning during the old rules that I understood because it was in the rule book, now if I were to be warned I might never find an exact reasoning other than "Well, In my interpretation of the rules, this said post breaks this said rule." We should not be left into interpretation of the rules, we should just be told them. I would much rather read a whole essay and understand why I was warned/banned, then read less than three paragraphs and left guessing my posts.

  • 10.28.2011 4:08 AM PDT

Posted by: A Bit Of Zero
This thread would have appealed to me more if it was written with crayons.
Posted by: King Dutchy
I broke one of the cords for my X11s because I couldn't get past the final American course in Doritos Crash Course.

its funny how uncommon common sense it.

  • 10.28.2011 5:36 AM PDT

The Risk Is Worth The Reward.
Cry Havoc And Let Slip The Dogs Of War.

lol yep this is pretty much the reason why OP. You never know what posting misleading info could lead to.
Posted by: dmg04
There is a difference between saying 'Bungie is a cult' and 'I'm a bungie employee give me your info for Recon'

  • 10.28.2011 6:17 AM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!


Posted by: Mr AwesomePizza
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
"Minor" is up to interpretation. IMO, the issue that this thread is about is one of the most minor issues I can imagine. So what is minor to you may not be to someone else. And here we will be again.
Minor is not really left to interpretation. Minor means not serious, or important. But this is serious.
Wow. Do you really believe that different people will all interpret "minor" in exactly the same way? It is simply ridiculous to think that is the case.

Whether you like it or not, this thread is dealing with an existing rule that may cause confusion. The rule currently implies that any funny thing will not be tolerated, but then we have moderators/employees saying that you're allowed to joke about it, as long as it doesn't cause harm. Thing is, it is not listed in the rule so that we know.

You're joking, right?

You said earlier yourself that you were new here when the new rules took effect. Join dates usually aren't relevant, but in this case they are, and as it turns out you spent about 3 months under the old regime. Suffice to say that if you didn't see any confusion about the rules in that time, it's because you were not looking hard enough.
You're right that I did not have a lot of time dealing with the old rules, but in my brief time I never noticed anyone questioning the rules as much as now. I was subjected to a warning during the old rules that I understood because it was in the rule book, now if I were to be warned I might never find an exact reasoning other than "Well, In my interpretation of the rules, this said post breaks this said rule." We should not be left into interpretation of the rules, we should just be told them. I would much rather read a whole essay and understand why I was warned/banned, then read less than three paragraphs and left guessing my posts.
No matter how many rules there are, there will always be some element of interpretation to them--interpretation is a natural part of communication, there is no way around it.

  • 10.28.2011 7:51 AM PDT
  • gamertag: kkrotz
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It's just there for the prevention of people doing things that they otherwise would of done. Sure, it still gets done, but prevention is better than a cure. Imagine if you were new to these forums and wanted a straight forward answer from an honest query and all you received was lies. You would be clueless and the forums would be a lot worse than what it already is, in some cases.

  • 10.28.2011 2:52 PM PDT

Key

This thread is now called "Why is this even still being discussed after the main problem in the OP has been both answered and it has been declared it won't change?"

  • 10.28.2011 2:54 PM PDT

Hello, I'm Mr AwesomePizza. I like pizza and I'm a man. Reasoning for the name. I like to listen to the classics of music, write poetry, play video games, and much much more. I'm always down for a nice chat, so please hit me up for some conversation.

Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Minor is defined that way in the dictionary... Just sayin'. And of course there will be left little interpretation but at that point it will be universal how the rule is understood. Unlike how now it's left very broad.
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
If you're not going to discuss, then please do not comment. All you are doing is posting random spam that has nothing to due with the topic at hand.
Posted by: kkrotz
I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not...Please clarify.

  • 10.28.2011 3:38 PM PDT

δόξει τις ἀμαθεῖ σοφὰ λέγων οὐκ εὖ φρονεῖν.

Euripides, Bacchae. 480.


Posted by: coolmike699

Posted by: Heliossoileh1

Posted by: x Foman123 x
common sense


Strange that the term seems undefinable. Convenient, even.

Posted by: Achronos
"Play nice, don't be a jerk."


Same problem.


Unfortunately, there's nothing that will be done about this. I made a thread about it, which only ended up as a massive failure on my part and a waste of my time.


I'm unsurprised. The people who run this place have an aversion to clarity of thought.

  • 10.28.2011 5:09 PM PDT

_____ ____(˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜||˜˜˜˜˜)_∏______
--------____.`=====.-.~:_______\___|==============[oo
|_|||___/___/_/~```|_|_|_|``(o)----------<)
Have Fai7h

My old Halo account: karsttheninja99

That rule was applied solely to counter "The Onion" newsfeed

  • 10.28.2011 7:10 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within

They think that they have pacified Ireland. They think that they have purchased half of us and intimidated the other half. They think that they have foreseen everything, think that they have provided against everything; but the fools, the fools, the fools! — they have left us our Fenian dead, and while Ireland holds these graves, Ireland unfree shall never be at peace
-Pádraig Anraí Mac Piarais

Posted by: Darkm0d

Posted by: Cycle22

Posted by: Achronos
by tricking people into deleting their system32 directory


But it fixes your lag, look at all the memory it takes up!



Laughed hard.

  • 10.28.2011 7:45 PM PDT

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