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Subject: How Is The Discussion Torrenting Interpreted By the Rules?

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Im curious really. I know torrenting in itself is perfectly legal and sound, and should be allowable under BNET rules. However, laws regarding the torrenting of music or movies (we will exclude games because those would usually involve discussion of modification) vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. An addition to this is do we abide by the laws present where Bungie is located, or our geographic locations?

So how do the rules see this? Would the torrenting of music be open for discussion of the Flood or not? Or is it a grey area?

  • 10.27.2011 8:38 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

If it can get Bungie in trouble by being on their site illegally, then don't discuss it. I mean: Downloading free stuff that shouldn't be free.
[edit]Had to make my eagle ill.[/edit]

[Edited on 10.27.2011 8:40 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 8:39 PM PDT

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Posted by: Xplode441
If it can get Bungie in trouble by being on their site illegally, then don't discuss it. I mean: Downloading free stuff that shouldn't be free.
[edit]Had to make my eagle ill.[/edit]


So as long as we dont link such material to this site, we can discuss it? That would be kind of a double standard for a lot of things.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 8:42 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 8:42 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Don't take my word for it, but I don't think it would be allowed. I know there are torrents out there that aren't for illegal stuff, but discussing torrent sites is spreading them. Not like people on the internet don't know about them already, but I think it would go against the CoC or something.

I should re-read that CoC...

  • 10.27.2011 8:44 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Sir Killalot33
So how do the rules see this? Would the torrenting of music be open for discussion of the Flood or not? Or is it a grey area?
How is this unclear? That's stealing, and stealing is illegal.

  • 10.27.2011 8:45 PM PDT

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Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Sir Killalot33
So how do the rules see this? Would the torrenting of music be open for discussion of the Flood or not? Or is it a grey area?
How is this unclear? That's stealing, and stealing is illegal.


However, at least in my place of residence, its not illegal by any stretch, and fully allowable under the law. That is more of moral quandary. I'm not sure about US law, but I believe its somewhat similar to that of Canada's.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 8:48 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 8:47 PM PDT


Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Sir Killalot33
So how do the rules see this? Would the torrenting of music be open for discussion of the Flood or not? Or is it a grey area?
How is this unclear? That's stealing, and stealing is illegal.


Yeah, not allowed to discuss illegal stuff.

  • 10.27.2011 8:51 PM PDT

This is the way I see it: it's OK to discuss torrenting, torrent-software, etc... as there are legitimate and legal uses for it (specifically, the technical usage of torrents). However, I think there is little to no actual discussion you could realistically have on the topic without it falling into the grey area or crossing the line into something explicitly prohibited.

  • 10.27.2011 8:52 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Sir Killalot33
Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posted by: Sir Killalot33
So how do the rules see this? Would the torrenting of music be open for discussion of the Flood or not? Or is it a grey area?
How is this unclear? That's stealing, and stealing is illegal.
However, at least in my place of residence, its not illegal by any stretch, and fully allowable under the law. That is more of moral quandary.
1.) Stealing is hardly a moral quandary so much as an absolute.
2.) Stealing definitely makes you a jerk who isn't playing nicely.

  • 10.27.2011 8:53 PM PDT

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I imagine that Bungie wouldn't want you to discuss torrenting because under US law it is illegal. If you are discussing the laws behind torrenting then you are probably fine, but discussion of the actual act may lead to a ban.

  • 10.27.2011 8:53 PM PDT

Torrenting = Downloading without paying for it
Downloading without paying for it = Stealing
Stealing = Against the law

So by the associative property:

Torrenting = Against the law

The discussion is a "gray area", if you are dicussion on what it is, then I suppose that's fine. But if you are trying to find how to torrent, or advertizing a torrent, etc. That would be against the rules (primariyl because it's against the law.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 8:58 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 8:55 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I maintain zero-tolerance policy on the subject, ultimately conversations about the subject at hand are going to lead to discussion about pirating. Even if torrenting in itself is just fine, we all know what it is really used for.

  • 10.27.2011 8:56 PM PDT

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Posted by: dazarobbo
This is the way I see it: it's OK to discuss torrenting, torrent-software, etc... as there are legitimate and legal uses for it (specifically, the technical usage of torrents). However, I think there is little to no actual discussion you could realistically have on the topic without it falling into the grey area or crossing the line into something explicitly prohibited.


Thank you dazarobbo. The question remains however, do we abide by the laws simply present at Bungie HQ, or from a wider variety of places? While this is a hypothetical example, if laws regarding firearms were switched between those of the UK and the US. Could members from jurisdictions where firearms were legal discuss, for purely civil purposes, the purchasing and usage of such weaponry, for entirely nonviolent purposes.

As for those saying piracy is theft, not in Canada technically, and as such I dont regard is as theft. However, that was not the question.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 9:01 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 8:56 PM PDT

Posted by: Sir Killalot33
Thank you dazarobbo. The question remains however, do we abide by the laws simply present at Bungie HQ, or from a wider variety of places?
I say this "wider variety of places" should be abided by.

Just because the rules say I can or can't talk about something illegal, doesn't mean it's okay to do it.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 9:03 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 9:02 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posting on Bungie involves two entities: you and Bungie. You should consider the laws of the jurisdictions of both entities.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 9:04 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 9:03 PM PDT

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Posted by: RighteousTyrant
Posting on Bungie involves two entities: you and Bungie. You should consider the laws of the jurisdictions of both entities.


I have, and I do not to intend to break either, which is why I asked for clarification and curiosity.

  • 10.27.2011 9:05 PM PDT

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I guess by "torrenting" you mean peer-to-peer file sharing aka P2P. In my opinion, I don't think it really should be allowed. And really, what's to talk about? How to do it? Do you use it?Files to download? I don't think it would be a very interesting topic, and it would only lead to piracy.

If I remember reading a statistic correctly, it's something like 97% of all torrents contain copyrighted materials. So, I don't think it would be really appropriate to talk about. And if it is allowed, you are walking across a very small line.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 10:01 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 9:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: LordMonkey
Torrenting = Downloading without paying for it
Downloading without paying for it = Stealing
Stealing = Against the law

So by the associative property:

Torrenting = Against the law
That's a beautiful textbook example of a flawed argument. A single bad premise, "Downloading without paying for it = Stealing", leading to a patently false conclusion. Torrenting any work in the public domain, or any that have been licensed under a Creative Commons or other "free" license is clearly not stealing, even if you accept the idea that all copyright infringement is theft.

But while there are a few common uses of torrents that are legal (e.g, downloading updating Ubuntu via p2p instead of a mirror) the fact is that there's little to no discussion value in that topic on these forums. Obviously anyone on these forums asking how to use torrents a) probably has trouble using a computer, and b) is trying find the latest Game of Thrones episode. So as a practical matter I totally agree with the moderators' decisions to just axe the discussion when it pops up. Pretty much pointless to allow it.

  • 10.27.2011 9:58 PM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

The question posed in the OP directly addresses torrenting of music. The vast majority of music is for sale, not free.

  • 10.27.2011 10:13 PM PDT

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Posted by: aku
That's a beautiful textbook example of a flawed argument. A single bad premise, "Downloading without paying for it = Stealing", leading to a patently false conclusion. Torrenting any work in the public domain, or any that have been licensed under a Creative Commons or other "free" license is clearly not stealing, even if you accept the idea that all copyright infringement is theft.
Yeah, I have to agree. This is implying that "torrenting" or P2P file sharing is actually illegal. There are websites that have 100% copyright-free (meaning no copyrights) materials. I've used P2P on several occasions to download files that aren't copyrighted. You can get high download speeds with P2P.

It's just that there is an overwhelming amount of copyrighted materials over non-copyrighted materials. But that doesn't make it illegal. But when people refer to "torrenting", they most likely talking about downloading copyrighted materials. Which is why I think it should be grounds for breaking the rules. It's pretty much the same thing with why discussion of modifying game consoles is against the rules. Can it be legal? Yes. Majority of the time? No.

  • 10.27.2011 10:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: RighteousTyrant
The question posed in the OP directly addresses torrenting of music. The vast majority of music is for sale, not free.
Ah, you're right. With that in mind Lordmonkey's argument makes sense. I had kind of forgotten the OP by the time I wrote my post. My bad.

Posted by: Switchfoot4
Can it be legal? Yes. Majority of the time? No.
You're totally right. I was just trying to point out some of the good uses of torrenting, which was apparently not all that relevant for this particular thread.

  • 10.27.2011 10:25 PM PDT

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Posted by: aku
Posted by: Switchfoot4
Can it be legal? Yes. Majority of the time? No.
You're totally right. I was just trying to point out some of the good uses of torrenting, which was apparently not all that relevant for this particular thread.
Lol yeah, I was agreeing with you.

[Edited on 10.27.2011 10:43 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 10:42 PM PDT
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Seeing as the vast majority of torrenting involves illegal activities, I also have a zero-tolerance policy in the matter.

Remember, the rules state: "Do not post about any illegal substances or activities."

  • 10.27.2011 10:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Duardo
Seeing as the vast majority of torrenting involves illegal activities, I also have a zero-tolerance policy in the matter.

Remember, the rules state: "Do not post about any illegal substances or activities."
So half the time you see a random user saying 'I had fun with your mom last night, FoMan'.... it's against the rules



14 year old with someone over the age of 100?
Soooo illegal

[Edited on 10.27.2011 11:06 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2011 11:06 PM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I thought it was over 40 pounds?

Posted by: dmg04
14 year old with someone over the age of 100?
Soooo illegal

  • 10.27.2011 11:51 PM PDT

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