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Subject: Argument for Button Glitches in future Halos


Posted by: RC Clone
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
If I had said his entire essay was circular logic and strawmanning, then that statement would have been a strawman.


That's what you implied in your post.

Posted by: RC Clone
The circular logic and strawmanning are hilarious.


What does "the" refer to? Why, the essay of course. So you are indeed generalizing the entire essay and making a strawman argument. You're arguing schematics and refusing to admit that you made the very same error you were lambasting.

The obviously refers to the circular logic and strawmanning If you can point out where in my first post I say that the entire thing is a logical fallacies then you win. Strawmans aren't implied they are flat out stated such as

Posted by: Halo 2 trytard with a blog
I can say that 95% of the opposition were too close minded and/or lazy to try out the glitches themselves and give them a chance.

That's what a strawman looks like.


You -blam!- idiot that's HYPERBOLE not a STRAWMAN argument.

And "the" refers to the circular logic and strawmanning INSIDE the blog post/essay, so your argument was indeed a strawman.

  • 10.30.2011 2:57 PM PDT


Posted by: Methew
I bet I know how it goes.

"It adds to the skill gap because not everyone can pull them off and anything that adds to the skill gap is good."

Know why I don't like button combos?

Getting one shot by starter weapons.


How about you read before making such a sweeping generalization.

And how the -blam!- can you get one shot by a BR?

  • 10.30.2011 2:57 PM PDT

Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Your example is irrelevant. A fighting game is a different genre than a First Person Shooter. Both games, however, require button presses to complete a set of actions. The more general argument says that since shooting, jumping, and aiming are all either button presses or a combination of them, why are elements like the BXR demonized and decried as being detrimental to Halo gameplay?

And reaction-times are related to "super fast inputs." If you have a non-existent reaction time, how are you supposed to make an input? Since when was slower reaction times good in a firefight?


I'm not saying that fast inputs or bad or anything, I completely understand the benefits of their presence, I just prefer the game without them. The glitches aren't necessarily detrimental.

If, on the other hand, the game had such inputs INTENTIONALLY programmed, I'd be more willing to agree to it. That way, the devs would know what they were doing with them, and be more ready to keep the game balanced.

I'd prefer if the 'glitches' could be done without such button-pressing. If it's possible to melee incredibly fast just because you're pressing an extra button, why can't we throw the extra button out of the window? Skill-gap isn't affected, since any monkey can actually perform the button-combo, yet the other proposed benefits remain in the game.

[Edited on 10.30.2011 3:01 PM PDT]

  • 10.30.2011 2:58 PM PDT

Posted by: Methew
Edit: Called it. First line of his post "Button glitches took SKILL and ADDED to the game."


How about you read the couple hundred or so words below that statement supporting his argument?

  • 10.30.2011 2:58 PM PDT

"I like knowing the space between my ears is immeasurable."

I loved BXR in halo 2. Seriously wanted to marry it.
Nothing was better, especially in when it first came out and not many people knew about it.

that... . was fun.

"WTF HAXXER HAXXIN HE KILL ME ONE SHOT OMG. I REPORTED DUDE DON"T WORRYZ. WUR UR LEET HAX NOW HAHAHA"

priceless....

  • 10.30.2011 2:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

I just got to the part where he says button glitching is pro but superbouncing is for noobs.

This is comedy gold. I'm starting to wonder if you are the guy that made that blog post since you're defending it so hard.

  • 10.30.2011 3:00 PM PDT


Posted by: scmitar1
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Your example is irrelevant. A fighting game is a different genre than a First Person Shooter. Both games, however, require button presses to complete a set of actions. The more general argument says that since shooting, jumping, and aiming are all either button presses or a combination of them, why are elements like the BXR demonized and decried as being detrimental to Halo gameplay?

And reaction-times are related to "super fast inputs." If you have a non-existent reaction time, how are you supposed to make an input? Since when was slower reaction times good in a firefight?


I'm not saying that fast inputs or bad or anything, I completely understand the benefits of their presence, I just prefer the game without them. The glitches aren't necessarily detrimental.

If, on the other hand, the game had such inputs INTENTIONALLY programmed, I'd be more willing to agree to it.


So you're saying that if something like the BXR happened in Halo 4, but wasn't intended to happen from 343's point of view, you would prefer the game without said BXR, but if 343 intentionally put it into the game, you would be okay?

WTF?

  • 10.30.2011 3:00 PM PDT

It's a glitch. It wasn't supposed to be there. Bungie stated that it was a glitch and wasn't supposed to be there and you're effectively cheating by using it.

It hurts gameplay. It wasn't fun.

It was a bad thing. It will never come back. Good.

  • 10.30.2011 3:00 PM PDT


Posted by: RC Clone
I just got to the part where he says button glitching is pro but superbouncing is for noobs.

This is comedy gold. I'm starting to wonder if you are the guy that made that blog post since you're defending it so hard.


The superbouncing is the one part of the essay I disagree about.

  • 10.30.2011 3:00 PM PDT


Posted by: burritosenior
It's a glitch. It wasn't supposed to be there. Bungie stated that it was a glitch and wasn't supposed to be there and you're effectively cheating by using it.

It hurts gameplay. It wasn't fun.

It was a bad thing. It will never come back. Good.


^ Now THIS is a strawman.

  • 10.30.2011 3:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
I just got to the part where he says button glitching is pro but superbouncing is for noobs.

This is comedy gold. I'm starting to wonder if you are the guy that made that blog post since you're defending it so hard.


The superbouncing is the one part of the essay I disagree about.

Never mind now I know you're just crazy.

You don't need to worry about me anymore. I'll go get myself some popcorn and continue with the comedy essay you posted.

  • 10.30.2011 3:02 PM PDT


Posted by: RC Clone
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
I just got to the part where he says button glitching is pro but superbouncing is for noobs.

This is comedy gold. I'm starting to wonder if you are the guy that made that blog post since you're defending it so hard.


The superbouncing is the one part of the essay I disagree about.

Never mind now I know you're just crazy.

You don't need to worry about me anymore. I'll go get myself some popcorn and continue with the comedy essay you posted.


So if I agree with you on one part but disagree about all the others I'm crazy?

OK BUDDY.

  • 10.30.2011 3:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

One more post, last one I swear.

He chose the easiest arguments from the dumb asses on Facebilk to refute. That just shows how little debate skill this tard has.

InB4strawman.

  • 10.30.2011 3:05 PM PDT

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

Posted by: scmitar1
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Your example is irrelevant. A fighting game is a different genre than a First Person Shooter. Both games, however, require button presses to complete a set of actions. The more general argument says that since shooting, jumping, and aiming are all either button presses or a combination of them, why are elements like the BXR demonized and decried as being detrimental to Halo gameplay?

And reaction-times are related to "super fast inputs." If you have a non-existent reaction time, how are you supposed to make an input? Since when was slower reaction times good in a firefight?


I'm not saying that fast inputs or bad or anything, I completely understand the benefits of their presence, I just prefer the game without them. The glitches aren't necessarily detrimental.

If, on the other hand, the game had such inputs INTENTIONALLY programmed, I'd be more willing to agree to it.


So you're saying that if something like the BXR happened in Halo 4, but wasn't intended to happen from 343's point of view, you would prefer the game without said BXR, but if 343 intentionally put it into the game, you would be okay?

WTF?

I edited it. I'm not being retarded, like you seem to think, there's a solid logic behind it.

If such 'glitches' were in the game intentionally, the Devs would be able to 'balance' them. It's a happy coincidence that Halo 2's animation glitches were beneficial, it could have been the case that they were only a detriment.

If the devs had said 'Oh, there were some button glitches but we left them in', I wouldn't be happy.

  • 10.30.2011 3:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
I just got to the part where he says button glitching is pro but superbouncing is for noobs.

This is comedy gold. I'm starting to wonder if you are the guy that made that blog post since you're defending it so hard.


The superbouncing is the one part of the essay I disagree about.

Never mind now I know you're just crazy.

You don't need to worry about me anymore. I'll go get myself some popcorn and continue with the comedy essay you posted.


So if I agree with you on one part but disagree about all the others I'm crazy?

OK BUDDY.

Where have you agreed with me?\

You like button glitching

I hate it.

You like superbouncing.

I hate.

We have so much in common.

  • 10.30.2011 3:06 PM PDT


Posted by: RC Clone
One more post, last one I swear.

He chose the easiest arguments from the dumb asses on Facebilk to refute. That just shows how little debate skill this tard has.

InB4strawman.


I like how at the start of this thread you were all smug and feeling superior because you thought the essay was a strawman argument (I lol'd when you pointed to a clear case of hyperbole as a strawman argument), and now you're acting like the strawman is a bad argument since I called you out for being a hypocrite. Funny how this forum works.

  • 10.30.2011 3:07 PM PDT


Posted by: RC Clone
You like superbouncing.

I hate.


I don't like superbouncing.

  • 10.30.2011 3:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
One more post, last one I swear.

He chose the easiest arguments from the dumb asses on Facebilk to refute. That just shows how little debate skill this tard has.

InB4strawman.


I like how at the start of this thread you were all smug and feeling superior because you thought the essay was a strawman argument (I lol'd when you pointed to a clear case of hyperbole as a strawman argument), and now you're acting like the strawman is a bad argument since I called you out for being a hypocrite. Funny how this forum works.

I'm sorry. Did you think I care what the series of pixels on my screen tell me are the words and thoughts of another human being who may be miles away whom I will never meet and have no respect for?

  • 10.30.2011 3:09 PM PDT


Posted by: Lone Wolf AFKs

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

Posted by: Lone Wolf AFKs
Why would we want button glitches?


How about you actually read the link that I provided in the OP? Hmm?


No thanks I don't read blogs. They're often just about one person crying about something their bad at.

xD

  • 10.30.2011 3:10 PM PDT


Posted by: scmitar1
I edited it. I'm not being retarded, like you seem to think, there's a solid logic behind it.

If such 'glitches' were in the game intentionally, the Devs would be able to 'balance' them. It's a happy coincidence that Halo 2's animation glitches were beneficial, it could have been the case that they were only a detriment.

If the devs had said 'Oh, there were some button glitches but we left them in', I wouldn't be happy.


I don't think you're retarded.

The thing is though, now you're implying that button glitches, by default, are unbalanced, which is simply not true. If everyone has the potential to pull of a BXR, it is balanced, just like how everyone can press A to jump, or in the MLG playlist, everyone can use Sprint, so sprint is balanced. Bungie may not have supported the BXR, but it was indeed balanced.

[Edited on 10.30.2011 3:15 PM PDT]

  • 10.30.2011 3:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
You like superbouncing.

I hate.


I don't like superbouncing.

Then how do disagree with his superbouncing statements. He sounded like he hated it too.

  • 10.30.2011 3:10 PM PDT


Posted by: RC Clone
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
One more post, last one I swear.

He chose the easiest arguments from the dumb asses on Facebilk to refute. That just shows how little debate skill this tard has.

InB4strawman.


I like how at the start of this thread you were all smug and feeling superior because you thought the essay was a strawman argument (I lol'd when you pointed to a clear case of hyperbole as a strawman argument), and now you're acting like the strawman is a bad argument since I called you out for being a hypocrite. Funny how this forum works.

I'm sorry. Did you think I care what the series of pixels on my screen tell me are the words and thoughts of another human being who may be miles away whom I will never meet and have no respect for?


Yeah actually, I do think you care. If you didn't care at all, you would have never posted in this thread. You posting in this thread proves that you have a point of view which strongly disagrees with the OP, and you wanted to make that POV public for all to see. So, yes, you do care, and there goes your attempt at belittling me. And could we cut out the personal insults and get to the real meat of the subject matter? If you think you can do a better job making a counterargument, then by all means. Hit me with one.

[Edited on 10.30.2011 3:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.30.2011 3:12 PM PDT

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

Posted by: scmitar1
It's a happy coincidence that Halo 2's animation glitches were beneficial


Bungie may not have supported the BXR, but it was indeed balanced.

Read again.

Halo 2 was lucky. It was entirely possible that the animation glitches could have caused huge problems for gameplay.

For that reason, I'll always prefer intentional game mechanisms over unintentional ones.

  • 10.30.2011 3:14 PM PDT


Posted by: RC Clone
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: RC Clone
You like superbouncing.

I hate.


I don't like superbouncing.

Then how do disagree with his superbouncing statements. He sounded like he hated it too.


He hated it too, but his argument against it said that that superbouncing was unfair/unbalanced, which I disagree with. It was balanced, but it was an unnecessary addition to gameplay.

  • 10.30.2011 3:14 PM PDT


Posted by: scmitar1
I'd prefer if the 'glitches' could be done without such button-pressing. If it's possible to melee incredibly fast just because you're pressing an extra button, why can't we throw the extra button out of the window? Skill-gap isn't affected, since any monkey can actually perform the button-combo, yet the other proposed benefits remain in the game.


No, the very fact that the BXR wasn't used well by a vast number of people in Halo 2 proves that "a simple monkey" can't actually perform the button-combo. It did indeed raise the skill-gap.

"Why not just throw out the extra button?"

Why indeed.

Going along with your logic, why not just make melee instant kill, since you have to press 2 buttons to melee twice to kill someone? Why not just make RB fire the gun 4 times in the exact same spot?

There's a fine line between pointless additions and adding to the skill gap. BXR did not cross that line.

  • 10.30.2011 3:19 PM PDT

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