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  • Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands


Posted by: anish panchalin
ONI clearly has no idea of the backward state sanghelios is in now, they're just taking more precautions so the sangheili don't become a threat to humanity's existence...again.


That's what I don't get...

ONI knows all these secrets, but can't understand that about the Elites?

  • 11.26.2011 7:24 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: anish panchalin
Regardless of whether or not 'Telcam is lying, I still think ONI's actions are logical and I can understand why Parangosky is doing what she is.

I know. Just saying that 'Telcam is no ally and if he came to power things would escalate into another religious war due to Humanity's inheritance. He might have won over the Arbiter in the end, because Evolutions basically implies that the Elites have gone back to worshipping the Forerunners.

  • 11.26.2011 9:32 AM PDT

yas334229812

I think these actions is because they do not know how to predict their enemies that well, as you can not put a spy among them that easily. Maybe this tactic is to understand how they act and understand and profile all players in the game.

This way if they are at a disagreement they can use this in a very usefull way. Plus it may be to keep 'Telcam as an ally, help him till they do not need him, then turn your back on them and kill them.

Plus he may have some really good insight in location of forerunner objects.

  • 11.26.2011 9:54 AM PDT


Posted by: risay_117
I think these actions is because they do not know how to predict their enemies that well, as you can not put a spy among them that easily. Maybe this tactic is to understand how they act and understand and profile all players in the game.

This way if they are at a disagreement they can use this in a very usefull way. Plus it may be to keep 'Telcam as an ally, help him till they do not need him, then turn your back on them and kill them.

Plus he may have some really good insight in location of forerunner objects.


His religion is any hampering with anything forerunner is heresy and punishable by death.

He'd never tell humans were to find forerunner artifacts knowing what they'd do.

Also, should ONI try to turn against 'Telcam, he can easily expose them and bring the entire Elite empire/race against humanity.

  • 11.26.2011 10:25 AM PDT

yas334229812

That is if they get him before he spills the beans.

  • 11.26.2011 12:54 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

That would essentially be a suicide mission.

  • 11.26.2011 12:58 PM PDT

Basically, they are taking major risks here.

If they supported the Arbiter and the peace treaty, then he could go "Look, the major leaders of humanity support peace!" and possibly convince more to join him.

Instead, they toy with those who don't like humans that much, and risk being exposed/damning humanity.

  • 11.26.2011 1:01 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

And Maggie had to make matters worse by telling the Spartan-IIs, "Hey, here's your records, go meet your families or whatever."

  • 11.26.2011 1:03 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And Maggie had to make matters worse by telling the Spartan-IIs, "Hey, here's your records, go meet your families or whatever."


It's okay as long as they're back by 11.

  • 11.26.2011 4:20 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And Maggie had to make matters worse by telling the Spartan-IIs, "Hey, here's your records, go meet your families or whatever."


It's okay as long as they're back by 11.

I take it they won't get the car for the weekend if they come late?

  • 11.26.2011 4:34 PM PDT

yas334229812

You know people like to knoww who they are but not necessarily they will do anything about it.

  • 11.26.2011 10:09 PM PDT


Posted by: risay_117
You know people like to knoww who they are but not necessarily they will do anything about it.


Why would the Spartans want to know if their parents surived the war?

They can't meet them for obvious reasons.

The parents wouldn't accept them anyway.

And it distracts them from any possible missions. Like if Naomi was sent to fight the new rebel group. And due to those files she knows her dad is a leader there. She's torn now between meeting him or killing him.'


Overall, a pointless, stupid move by Paragonsky.

  • 11.27.2011 6:13 AM PDT
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands(Discussion Thread)

This is a real wall-of-text, so steel yourselves before reading it. (Quotes rather than from-memory responses will probably help keep it all straight, too.)

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Oh no, not some Brutes, most. In a lot of parts of the book the Elites always point out how they don't trust Brutes, they say they are just essentially barbarians, and that they don't trust them.

In which case, enslaving some or making a few servants might not be that far off of examples from human history. Consider the history of human enslavement, and all that joyful crap. Conquering armies have long used prisoners and defeated armies as (effectively, if not always in name) slave labor. The Romans in particular made a big show of it. They had their public executions and gladiatorial spectacles, sure, but they also marched people about and made them carry out menial, laborious tasks just to sneer at them and reinforce Roman primacy.
However the majority of Elites we follow in Glasslands want to just kill humanity. Be done with it.
The majority that are followed as characters, yes, but then we must wonder whether those we follow are representative of the Elites in general.

Part of the problem is Traviss's often-disorganized narration; I'll get to that at the end.
So what was learned in the Great Schism? Honestly now.
Well, we saw a fleet attack humans again and again, without any need for the Prophets, for one, at Onyx and elsewhere.

Try to keep in mind that the fights taking place during the Great Schism were largely four-way brawls- pockets of UNSC versus Elites (and allied Hunters, Grunts, etc.) versus Covenant, with the Flood thrown in for a little more chaos. It's really only later, and at the Arbiter's urging, that a small band of Elites who have chased Flood to Earth agree to ally themselves with humans for a little while. (Even then, Hood and R'tas looked ready to takes swings/shots at each other in that Halo 3 cutscene.)
I mean, the Brutes and Elites didn't get along to well since the beginning of their relationship and it all came pouring out during the Great Schism. Brutes killed the Elite Council, Brutes ate Elites they just killed, Brutes and Elite ships fought each other above High Charity and Delta Halo, Brutes and Elites continued to fight each other well into 2559.
I always got the feeling, though, that much of the Elites' posturing on the matter were just smug reassertions of their "obvious" superiority to all the other races. Arrogance and dominion. See my first point, please; if correct, this point and that one each reinforce the other.
However Brutes are now clipping some oriental trees, act as the Elite's personal UPS delivery drivers and do some heavy lifting.

But humanity, oh they are such vermin and filth and must be cleansed away! Sounds a lot like the Prophets that the Elites, you know, fought against.

Where are the lasting lessons? Do I expect the Elites to just turn around and say, "Sorry"? No. But do I expect the Elites to at least reconsider everything they've done instead of trying to finish what the Prophets started?

No.

So, the apparent inconsistency strikes you as incredible? A bit too much to believe?

Human history (and, yes, I reference that, as it's pretty much all we have in the real world to work with) is full of stuff like that.

Consider, for example, that the United States government- formed on the basis of a rebellion prompted by arbitrary taxation and an overtly authoritarian imperial government- put down three distinct tax-prompted rebellions with military force within its own borders before 1800 (one, two and three, ladies and gentlemen) and adopted a much stronger, more centralized form of government in response.



The bases they'd have to ally with humans are (1) pragmatic, (2) ethical (kinda) or (3) realization that the human view of Forerunners was correct, and that the Covenant and ancient Elite views were dead wrong. For (1), we've seen canon accounts of Elites choose death where more useful and survivable roles were available- refuse medical treatment, refuse to use human weapons, commit a sort of ritual suicide, etc.- so they're pretty firmly not pragmatic. The second cause, a sort of penance or redemption, requires that point three be accepted at least in part. As for part three itself, the only evidence they all have access to is that the Prophets were charlatans. Considering the Elites' reverence and worship of Forerunners extends far earlier in their history than the Covenant or Prophets, and considering that it's essentially only the word of the Arbiter, some of his men and a bunch of humans that the Forerunners were just desperate mortals engaged in a hopeless and lost war, I would expect many of the Elites to disregard the truth of Halo, the Forerunners, etc., as plain lies.

If that's a stretch for you, think of the wonderful folks who believe steadfastly in creationism, or against evolution, or what have you, and argue vehemently in the face of science. It doesn't matter that we can hold up evidence, they just shrug it off. "Well, those fossils were obviously put there to test your faith!"

Further considering that these Elites have all lived in a society that was held together socially, politically and militarily by religion, it's pretty predictable they'd react out of baseless faith rather than listen to reason.


To put it another way, think of the Elites' society as Europe during or just after the Reformation. They all may have just agreed to get rid of their Pope, but if the Arbiter keeps running around shouting that God is a lie and that Heaven is a delusion, there'll be Hell to pay pretty soon. At the least, he'd better whip up some verifiable evidence in a hurry.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Posted by: Xd00999
I believe that is what one may call a plot hole. Parangosky is ONI's brain, the fact that anything as big as the clones could get past her is beyond me. They handwave it by saying that Halsey hid it in the budget. How can you hide 75 clones in the budget?!? That's not lunch money!

There's a simpler explanation, you know.

Parangosky is simply lying, and Halsey knows it, but just can't do anything about it from her position. She is already actively covering her behind, and setting up Halsey as the fall guy, so that she can avoid most of the crap when it finally hits the fan.

She doesn't do the same for Ackerson because (1) the S-III project is not (yet) public knowledge, whereas the S-II's have been used for propaganda, and (2) Ackerson is regarded by many at this point as a war hero. (Like it or not, that graphic novel may have an impact here.) Picking out a war hero as your scapegoat for a program not yet known would be unnecessary at best, politically unwise at worst, and simply won't serve to cover Prangosky's backside like lambasting Halsey will.

By the way, if you go back and read the Nylund novels (I think it's in TFoR, but it may be FS, so grant me some room to work with old memories), it's kind of Cortana's fault that Ackerson is dead, as she forged a request from him to be reassigned to a forward command. He ultimately dies in that capacity on or near Mars. So, Cortana might be made into something of a "bad person" by Parangosky, et al later on, too.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The biggest problem in Glasslands is Traviss's hodgepodge narration style. Sometimes it's first-person, sometimes a close third-person, sometimes omniscient third. Mixed in with that, she depicts characters' thoughts inconsistently, too- sometimes via first-person narration, sometimes via omniscient third, sometimes with just a block of text that may or may not be in italics, and sometimes through nebulous dialogue. It makes for an absolute mess wherein the author's intent and narration can very easily get mixed up with characters' thoughts and opinions. The two should really be cleanly distinct, but aren't, and then bad things happen.

One particular result is the feeling that Traviss has designated Halsey as an evil wretch. I don't think she actually has, but her awful, shoddy narration style makes it hard to keep the author a distinct concept from the characters, and several of the characters definitely have taken that stance on Halsey.

That kind of narration trouble and lack of separation between author and character is the kind of thing I'm accustomed to seeing in fan fiction, but stumbling into it in a proper Halo novel is more than a bit disconcerting. Irks me, if I'm honest about it. (Say what you will about Nylund's narration- dry, boring, detached, etc.- but it always struck me as classic sci-fi narration, and there was little if any ambiguity to it. All the mysteries came from the content covered.)

TL;DR Narration is to Glasslands as dialogue is to a George Lucas script. Content seems mostly okay, though, once you figure out the intended organization of the book.

[Edited on 11.27.2011 3:31 PM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 1:59 PM PDT

when considering parangoskys plan it all comes down to this.

The elites are going to have a civil war regardless of whether or not she helps

this civil war will consist of a group of people who want to kill or enslave humanity, and a group that wants to leave humanity alone.

And she decides to back the group that wants to kill her.

  • 11.27.2011 3:22 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: TheAsterisk
Well, we saw a fleet attack humans again and again, without any need for the Prophets, for one, at Onyx and elsewhere.

Try to keep in mind that the fights taking place during the Great Schism were largely four-way brawls- pockets of UNSC versus Elites (and allied Hunters, Grunts, etc.) versus Covenant, with the Flood thrown in for a little more chaos. It's really only later, and at the Arbiter's urging, that a small band of Elites who have chased Flood to Earth agree to ally themselves with humans for a little while. (Even then, Hood and R'tas looked ready to takes swings/shots at each other in that Halo 3 cutscene.)

The events at Onyx take place, at most, all within 48 hours of the outbreak of the Schism - From Truth giving the orders for the extermination of the Elites to Kurt's death. I would not really expect any sort of consensus to emerge or action to be taken in terms of who to ally with as well as what should be done for the long term, whether or not these have grounding in ethical or pragmatic beliefs. In that time period I would imagine that the chief concern would be purely short term gaols - acquisition of ships, securing High Ranking officials and leadership, securing weapons, factories, resources and strategic vantage points, securing colonies, establishing communications etc. I would not really think, regardless of whether there was some underlying ethical concern to this war with the Elites, that only hours after they are attacked and their entire military infrastructure is thrown into complete disarray that they would stand up and say "Let's all go to Earth and see the Humans!".

Additionally, the orders to attack Humanity in that particular instance came from the Imperial Admiral. I do not think this necessarily means that the Elites think, as a whole, that they should carry on their war with Humanity after the shock of the Schism has worn off. They may do it out of following the orders of Xytan, but it does not mean that they want to. There is political implications of having an Elite as powerful and influential as an Imperial Admiral. As far as we know, there is only one, and he essentially has command over the entire Covenant Navy. In fact this particular one got so influential that the Heirarchs sent him away to patrol the outer Covenant territories, fearful that he could challenged them one day. For such a powerful person, you want to be absolutely sure that you can trust them otherwise you could find yourself fighting half of your Navy who have aligned with him should he dissent. It is no real surprise to me, then, that Xytan would remain a Zealot. He has to be utterly indoctrinated into the faith so that him doubting is never a concern that you should have to realistically worry about. Anyone who becomes Imperial Admiral would probably be expected to have those qualities.

There is a fortnight between Halo 2 and Halo 3. I would be incredulous if it were revealed that the Arbiter - Whilst in possession of 343 Guilty Spark who has the absolute truth of everything that the Elites believed in to be a lie, and who is revered as an "Oracle" - sat around and did not utilize this asset to try to invariably sway more Elites to his cause. You were most right in saying that people long indoctrinated by a faith can be (And often are) wilfully ignorant. There would be Elites out there not willing to believe that their faith is a lie, and that the Heirarchs had actually ousted their race. Therefore this would be invaluable in swaying them. The Covenant have far faster methods of communication than the UNSC - Almost instant according to the capabilities of a Tier 2 Society - and as such I would sort of expect some sort of address to be made to as many Sangheili worlds and ships as possible involving 343GS discussing the truth of the Halo Array and the (Perceived) ultimate fate of the Forerunner.

Would this have been enough? Well, it was enough for Sesa 'Refumee, but okay, that is one Elite so let's not generalise. You have to know how strong the Elites faith was in the Covenant religion at that point, and how much support there was for their beliefs if they ran into doubt, in order to say anything for sure about how effective 343GS would be. I do not think it was very strong at all, given how Sesa was regarded as such a dangerous threat to the Covenant that the Heirarchs had to send in an Arbiter to deal with him. Arbiters are created in times of extraordinary crisis when the integrity of the Covenant itself is under threat. In just under a month Sesa accumulated quite a gathering which was initially just his small recon team. If he had the ability to undermine the Covenant ideologically then the Elites must have had weakened beliefs to start with.

Truth says this in Halo 3 when Thel kills him - "Your kind never believed in the promise of the sacred Rings". Maybe once they did, but after literally thousands of years of nothing but minor - almost trivial - discoveries being made they grew dubious of the Prophets religion. I think this was covered in detail in Contact Harvest. About the Ages of Doubt and how the Covenant was going through one just before encountering Humanity. The end point here is that I think that word about the truth - told by 343 himself - would spread quickly in the 2 weeks worth of time that there was between Halo 2 and Halo 3, and that it would have been catastrophic to the Elite's already diminished faith. Once the core tenets of the Religion fall away, then the injunctions against Humanity should go with it, and the prejudices should begin to substantially weaken. (In addition to the fact that 343 has referred to them as Reclaimers)

Posted by: TheAsterisk
Human history (and, yes, I reference that, as it's pretty much all we have in the real world to work with) is full of stuff like that.

Why should stories constantly conform to historical examples though? Is there no imagination left in the world of fiction that everything must now be a retelling or analogy of some historical event? There are probably a few historical examples of alliances that were initially based on "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" later growing into something more than just that, but the Halo story should have remained it its own telling rather than appealing to history. I do not think that he finds it incredible completely, just a bit incredible in the context of the Halo story.

Posted by: TheAsterisk
For (1)[pragmatic], we've seen canon accounts of Elites choose death where more useful and survivable roles were available- refuse medical treatment, refuse to use human weapons, commit a sort of ritual suicide, etc.- so they're pretty firmly not pragmatic.

Assuming that these instances are widely held beliefs (I can name you Rtas who obviously got medical treatment for his almost amputated and profusely bleeding arm in the Graphic Novel) it was said in the Encyclopaedia that part of the reason that they allied with Humanity was out of concerns that they may be outnumbered by the Loyalists after the NOVA wiped out their large fleet. When it comes to the large scale and long term I do not think that they are as impractical.

Posted by: TheAsterisk
The second cause [ethical], a sort of penance or redemption, requires that point three be accepted at least in part.

Not necessarily. We have evidence for Elites who doubted the war itself whilst still having some faith in the Covenant religion. In one case it was tied to their distrust of the Prophets (Yes the two are not a happy couple. Their leaders fight and argue aggressively behind closed doors often) and another account was due to the perceived inconsistency between the Prophets propaganda of Humanity against the way that they were actually seen to behave. They believed that Humanity was worthy of acceptance into the Covenant and failed to truly understand the Prophets reasoning. This is before the Schism. All things considered with their waning religious fervour, their distrust of the Prophets and what they saw in Humanity (In addition to their beliefs that an adversary who shows courage and some form of strength - where that be physical prowess or intelligence and innovation - tends to be respected well enough by the Elites. A fact now conveniently forgotten I feel. This was the whole reason why the Covenant exists as a 7 race group rather than a 2 race group.) I think that there should be an opening of acceptance and respect about now, and some form of atonement and attempt at redemption. Glasslands is just not what we were originally set up for I feel.

[Edited on 11.27.2011 6:32 PM PST]

  • 11.27.2011 4:50 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: TheAsterisk
As for part three itself, the only evidence they all have access to is that the Prophets were charlatans. Considering the Elites' reverence and worship of Forerunners extends far earlier in their history than the Covenant or Prophets, and considering that it's essentially only the word of the Arbiter, some of his men and a bunch of humans that the Forerunners were just desperate mortals engaged in a hopeless and lost war, I would expect many of the Elites to disregard the truth of Halo, the Forerunners, etc., as plain lies.

If that's a stretch for you, think of the wonderful folks who believe steadfastly in creationism, or against evolution, or what have you, and argue vehemently in the face of science. It doesn't matter that we can hold up evidence, they just shrug it off. "Well, those fossils were obviously put there to test your faith!"

Further considering that these Elites have all lived in a society that was held together socially, politically and militarily by religion, it's pretty predictable they'd react out of baseless faith rather than listen to reason.

This makes the assumption that their faith was strong though, which I already got at above.

Also, even if they do not fully abandon their belief in the Forerunners and Halo, the injunctions against Humanity came from the Prophets who are now known liars. The Prophets ordered the genocide of the Elites and managed to get most of the Covenant races to engage in this act. They justified this by naming the Elites heretics. The Elites may have been doubting, but they were not seeking to destroy the Covenant faith or blaspheming against it, but nevertheless they saw how the Prophets lied against them by implicating them as such heretics and said stuff that was just not true, and the Elites knew this because they knew their own intentions were nothing of the sort. Given how they saw first hand how the Prophets fabricated lies against their whole race out of nothing, and got many, many people to believe in it I think that they would ask the question of "Did the same happen with Humanity?" And given how they observed how Human soldiers appeared to be more than what the Prophets said about them, the question should be really popping up.

  • 11.27.2011 4:50 PM PDT

yas334229812

The problem with both sides is that we have points agreeing and disagreeing both sides, this is kind of hard to accept, so what type of hypothesis are possible for this to work out, this is the main point in the end. Yeah they may have made problems but could it ever work out.

  • 11.29.2011 1:16 PM PDT

I finished the book a couple of days ago and I must say... It was a let down. I should have read that Q/A before buying the book. She destroyed Halsey completely.

Dear god, I just hope she learns to understand Halsey better and stop hitting us with "She's the second coming of Mengele". Nylund already went into her reasons in almost all previous books and Travis just destroyed the character.

  • 12.05.2011 1:33 PM PDT
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: anish panchalin
ONI clearly has no idea of the backward state sanghelios is in now, they're just taking more precautions so the sangheili don't become a threat to humanity's existence...again.


That's what I don't get...

ONI knows all these secrets, but can't understand that about the Elites?


You would think they would think something was up when they were selling arms to 'Telcam while believing that they thought the Arbiter wasn't a good leader.

  • 12.05.2011 3:21 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: anish panchalin
ONI clearly has no idea of the backward state sanghelios is in now, they're just taking more precautions so the sangheili don't become a threat to humanity's existence...again.


That's what I don't get...

ONI knows all these secrets, but can't understand that about the Elites?


You would think they would think something was up when they were selling arms to 'Telcam while believing that they thought the Arbiter wasn't a good leader.


Heck, you'd think they'd side with the faction that basically controls the remaining elite ships, instead on one with 2 old bombers and a boarding craft :P.

  • 12.05.2011 3:29 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: anish panchalin
ONI clearly has no idea of the backward state sanghelios is in now, they're just taking more precautions so the sangheili don't become a threat to humanity's existence...again.


That's what I don't get...

ONI knows all these secrets, but can't understand that about the Elites?


You would think they would think something was up when they were selling arms to 'Telcam while believing that they thought the Arbiter wasn't a good leader.


Heck, you'd think they'd side with the faction that basically controls the remaining elite ships, instead on one with 2 old bombers and a boarding craft :P.


It's ONI, what do you expect?

  • 12.05.2011 3:32 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: anish panchalin
ONI clearly has no idea of the backward state sanghelios is in now, they're just taking more precautions so the sangheili don't become a threat to humanity's existence...again.


That's what I don't get...

ONI knows all these secrets, but can't understand that about the Elites?


You would think they would think something was up when they were selling arms to 'Telcam while believing that they thought the Arbiter wasn't a good leader.


Heck, you'd think they'd side with the faction that basically controls the remaining elite ships, instead on one with 2 old bombers and a boarding craft :P.


It's ONI, what do you expect?

Some level of competence befitting an organization in it's position? Or is that too much to ask for?

  • 12.05.2011 3:38 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Xd00999
Some level of competence befitting an organization in it's position? Or is that too much to ask for?


To Karen Travis, yes.

  • 12.05.2011 3:39 PM PDT
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Five exclamations marks are a good signifier of an insane mind. As is trying to hide from Death in an airtight room. Silly wizard.

Osman says that they (ONI) are not supporting the Arby (the guy who wants to be friends with humanity) because they do not believe he will survive the ordeal. Have they considered that it is because they are supplying Arby's enemies with weapons? If the actually backed the guy who gives a damn about humanity maybe they could actually do something productive instead of giving unstable religious groups weapons.

  • 12.05.2011 4:07 PM PDT


Posted by: MAC Blast
Osman says that they (ONI) are not supporting the Arby (the guy who wants to be friends with humanity) because they do not believe he will survive the ordeal. Have they considered that it is because they are supplying Arby's enemies with weapons? If the actually backed the guy who gives a damn about humanity maybe they could actually do something productive instead of giving unstable religious groups weapons.


You see, that'd be smart and wouldn't produce drama.

I mean, supporting the friendly guy and giving humanity a good face by aiding them/teaching them engineering and farming? You know, make Elites not hate humanity? Nah we gotta be retarded evil.

  • 12.05.2011 4:13 PM PDT