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This topic has moved here: Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands
  • Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands

I think most of you are forgetting what has happened before. Humanity was close to being exterminated in a 30 somewhat year war. Imagine Hitler's "empire" lasting and waging war for a similair period. Nobody would ever forgive the Germans. But these are aliens we are talking about, why a give a damn about being friends with something alien that tried to kill you for 30years and nearly succeeded, with many lives lost and planets destroyed. There's no forgiving that. However earth is close to falling apart and needs time to restrengthen herself before it can wage another war. Thus they feed the seeds of revolt in hinge-head country so as to whittle down hinge-head forces, all till the time is ripe for humanity to strike (insert Infinity). So their logic is pretty solid, however it could backfire, ONI just hopes they've finished preparing by then.

I agree though that they made it too black and white with the whole Halsey thing. She was a perfect character before and they made her into a black monster for no apparent reason.
Personally I would have done the same in her position... minus the clones though, since it would only fuel possible anti earth sentiments if someone found out *cough*Sentzke*cough*.

They could also have downplayed the drama between Halsey and Chief Mendez since it didn't add anything other than underline the author clearly not being a fan of such methods.

  • 12.14.2011 7:54 AM PDT

Handled correctly, the clones would be a non-issue. However ONI botched up handling Naomi's clone apparently.

The problem with sowing the seeds of revolt is... They aren't arming a pro-human group. They are arming a group that is at best "meh humanity." at worst "KILL THEM ALL FOR TOUCHING FORERUNNER STUFF!" Who is fighting the pro-peace group, which has the fleet right now.

  • 12.14.2011 8:05 AM PDT

The clones added extra paperwork I wouldn't bother with.

They aren't trying to coexist with the Sangheili. They want to annihilate them. However instead of humanity jumping in they first decide to plunge them into a civil war. Which could leave whatever is left to be easy pickings for humanity to destroy. It's risky since if found out it would rally all Shangheili against humanity, however my guess is that they don't expect that to happen too soon and that earth will be ready by the that time. Obviously that's me assuming things, but it was mentioned in the book that they were preparing, hence Infinity and Spartan IV project being mentioned.

  • 12.14.2011 8:17 AM PDT
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Frankie replied in Halo A-Z (type in YouTube Gamespot) stating that [not exact quote, I can't be bothered] criticism over the book was unfounded, since Halsey created the Spartans do defeat the Insurrection. She did not have the intention of preventing human extinction due to the Covenant, but the Spartans adapted to that role anyway.

  • 12.14.2011 1:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Quantam
Frankie replied in Halo A-Z (type in YouTube Gamespot) stating that [not exact quote, I can't be bothered] criticism over the book was unfounded, since Halsey created the Spartans do defeat the Insurrection. She did not have the intention of preventing human extinction due to the Covenant, but the Spartans adapted to that role anyway.


Bollocks. It is the assembly behind the spartan projects not halsey. And i won't be surprised to here something about ONI knowing about the covenant before the war. We already know halsey saw HC before the war and we have a report about ONI being on HC before reach fell.

  • 12.14.2011 1:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: goldhawk
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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Quantam
Frankie replied in Halo A-Z (type in YouTube Gamespot) stating that [not exact quote, I can't be bothered] criticism over the book was unfounded, since Halsey created the Spartans do defeat the Insurrection. She did not have the intention of preventing human extinction due to the Covenant, but the Spartans adapted to that role anyway.


Bollocks. It is the assembly behind the spartan projects not halsey. And i won't be surprised to here something about ONI knowing about the covenant before the war. We already know halsey saw HC before the war and we have a report about ONI being on HC before reach fell.

The Assembly was behind the Program. IIRC, they were think of a successor program (for Orion) even before the Innsurection threat. The Assembly was concerned with hostile alien species as far back as 2400. It is logical to assume they created the SIIs to fight the then unknown alien specie and used the Innsurection as an excuse to start the project. An Assembly member even initiated the first contact between the Covenant and man.

  • 12.14.2011 1:37 PM PDT


Posted by: Mrshady
The clones added extra paperwork I wouldn't bother with.

They aren't trying to coexist with the Sangheili. They want to annihilate them. However instead of humanity jumping in they first decide to plunge them into a civil war. Which could leave whatever is left to be easy pickings for humanity to destroy. It's risky since if found out it would rally all Shangheili against humanity, however my guess is that they don't expect that to happen too soon and that earth will be ready by the that time. Obviously that's me assuming things, but it was mentioned in the book that they were preparing, hence Infinity and Spartan IV project being mentioned.


That's the problem. Earth is in ruins, their fleets gutted, and ALL ONI THINKS ABOUT. Is another war.

The whole thing could backfire by tel'cam going out and pointing that humanity wants them to fight. Bam, he unites the elites into charging humanity, and wiping out Earth.

It's a stupid, and tactically retarded plan with far more to lose then to gain.

  • 12.14.2011 2:16 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Mrshady
The clones added extra paperwork I wouldn't bother with.

They aren't trying to coexist with the Sangheili. They want to annihilate them. However instead of humanity jumping in they first decide to plunge them into a civil war. Which could leave whatever is left to be easy pickings for humanity to destroy. It's risky since if found out it would rally all Shangheili against humanity, however my guess is that they don't expect that to happen too soon and that earth will be ready by the that time. Obviously that's me assuming things, but it was mentioned in the book that they were preparing, hence Infinity and Spartan IV project being mentioned.


That's the problem. Earth is in ruins, their fleets gutted, and ALL ONI THINKS ABOUT. Is another war.

The whole thing could backfire by tel'cam going out and pointing that humanity wants them to fight. Bam, he unites the elites into charging humanity, and wiping out Earth.

It's a stupid, and tactically retarded plan with far more to lose then to gain.


What is the plan anyway? Are they going to wipe the elites out? because they don't need to start or prepare for another war if they aren't going to go all the way.

  • 12.14.2011 2:18 PM PDT

There is another thing, how are they going to wipe out all the elites as Paragonsky hinted was the plan?

They certainly don't have the resources based off halo 3. Though we know logic doesn't apply here.

  • 12.14.2011 2:45 PM PDT

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  • 12.14.2011 2:49 PM PDT

But do they know all the Elite worlds? And do they even have the stuff to make another..

Nevermind, I know even if they didn't have the resources, ONI would magically produce one anyway.

  • 12.14.2011 2:53 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
There is another thing, how are they going to wipe out all the elites as Paragonsky hinted was the plan?

They certainly don't have the resources based off halo 3. Though we know logic doesn't apply here.

Perhaps even biological weapons. I don't think that any of the Halo novels have really gone in-depth on CBRN warfare by the UNSC, other than the nuclear portion, so it would be interesting to see if they finally unveil some.

  • 12.14.2011 3:05 PM PDT
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands(Discussion Thread)

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

@ Dea: Pretty much. As for the Elites worlds, they are probably in the same situation as Humanity where all they have depends on their home world. Lose it and they lose any chance at rebuilding.

I don't mind all that much Humanity bringing its technology standards up swiftly, there is evidence that the UNSC has leased out Mjolnir blue prints to private sector industries to help development due to funding constraints. (Mark V [B ], Rogue variant, Security variant) The same may happen here to a degree with other technologies.

Posted by: Mrshady
There's no forgiving that.

I find that premature. I had hoped they would take the story down another path rather than ripping off Warhammer but we were always in for a dead end here I guess.

[Edited on 12.14.2011 3:36 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2011 3:29 PM PDT
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I don't see anything wrong with Glasslands. I think that the majority of complainers are unaware of the fact that phrases describing Halsey are from the perspective of other characters. Not Traviss', not our own.

If Serin Osman or Vaz thinks Halsey is a criminal, why do you care? That is their opinion, it may be wrong in your eyes, but you can't force them to change it.

The only thing I am a little confused about is the Brutes.

They were shown to be always hating Elites, but it makes logical and canonical sense that the Brutes have different opinions, like we do, and similar to most Grunts and Hunters, they defected to the Elites (although the Separatist Brutes are a minority).

[Edited on 12.14.2011 11:22 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2011 11:20 PM PDT

Quantam, it's not that. It's moreso the fact that I think it's 90%? of the characters ALL have the EXACT same viewpoint of Halsey.

When that happens, it's hard to go "Oh, that's just how those characters think."

  • 12.14.2011 11:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Quantam, it's not that. It's moreso the fact that I think it's 90%? of the characters ALL have the EXACT same viewpoint of Halsey.

When that happens, it's hard to go "Oh, that's just how those characters think."

Fair enough. But the majority of the new characters are the haters, and that might be related to it.

I believe that while trapped in a Dyson Sphere and/or presumed dead, the characters released their inner thoughts about Halsey.

We can be comforted about the fact that Blue Team appreciates what Halsey did, but in the eyes of other people, particularly failed Spartan candidates and ODST's, she is a monster.

Other than that, I am not aware of any other writing issue with Glasslands (canon is a different story).

  • 12.15.2011 12:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Quantam
Frankie replied in Halo A-Z (type in YouTube Gamespot) stating that [not exact quote, I can't be bothered] criticism over the book was unfounded, since Halsey created the Spartans do defeat the Insurrection. She did not have the intention of preventing human extinction due to the Covenant, but the Spartans adapted to that role anyway.

Please link the report. Sounds interesting :).

The Assembly are comprised of AI, some human had to be the face of the project. That human was Halsey, and perhaps Frankie was going with the flow in the sense that the majority of people don't know what the Assembly is, and suddenly "changing" canon about the makers of Spartans would cause an uproar of those who are uninformed.

I don't think we will know until the sequel to Glasslands, or if the Assembly is explained further in future media.


Bollocks. It is the assembly behind the spartan projects not halsey. And i won't be surprised to here something about ONI knowing about the covenant before the war. We already know halsey saw HC before the war and we have a report about ONI being on HC before reach fell.


[Edited on 12.15.2011 12:40 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 12:39 AM PDT
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands

It isn't that stupid, it might be a bit illogical though.
But obviously this is still a story and it needs to be excting and fun to read, this "twist" certainly provides us with that.
What was presented in the story to make it both believable and enjoyable was relatively well done so I don't see any real issues.


@ others: Also again humans hate the elites because of a 30year war. Anyone thinking humans will let it slip like a bad dream is deluding themselfs. Shangheili are aliens, a different species... Could you forgive a human who did the same thing IRL? let alone anyone from another species.
It would take a couple 100 years before both species would truly be able to work together. It's way too soon now.

PS: Me is Mrshady (xbox wasn't cooperating with e-mail/account switch).

  • 12.15.2011 7:09 AM PDT
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands(Discussion Thread)

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Regarding Parangosky vs Halsey - I think that Parangosky shows her own weakness in that scene: she demonstrates that being lied to or kept in the dark offends her. I highly doubt that she was actually against the clones, but rather it's a matter of principle for her - she's not used to people successfully doing anything behind her back so to find that it did happen likely ate at her until she could retaliate, in this case by effectively killing Halsey's public image and forcing her to work solely on integrating Forerunner technology with human technology.

She's obviously smart enough to get what she wants and knows that killing or imprisoning Halsey with nothing to do would be a waste, but she's old, used to pulling the strings of ONI and the whole thing is likely a matter of pride for her.

At least that was my interpretation.

  • 12.15.2011 7:24 AM PDT
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: mr_Sh4dy
@ others: Also again humans hate the elites because of a 30year war. Anyone thinking humans will let it slip like a bad dream is deluding themselfs. Shangheili are aliens, a different species... Could you forgive a human who did the same thing IRL? let alone anyone from another species.
It would take a couple 100 years before both species would truly be able to work together. It's way too soon now.

PS: Me is Mrshady (xbox wasn't cooperating with e-mail/account switch).

Centuries is overdoing it though. A decade after the war and I doubt the wounds would still be rife. 20 years less so, 30 years even less so. Then you have a new generation who never knew of the war, or were too young to grasp its true nature. This is the target; they will determine the future, and if both sides really wanted to then they could mold them to be less hostile to each other. As the older generations get older their influence on society weakens. Yes, it is possible that Halo becomes like Warhammer and that Humanity becomes this xenophibic and hateful species. That is a distinct possibility and an easy way for the story to go, but like that has not been done before... I always thought that if people could understand why the Covenant did what it did and saw how the Sangheili could try to respect and atone for what they did (Before 343i wiped out their old social character) then that would lessen the extent. (As opposed to them remaining self-righteous about what they did and continuing to refer to Humans as vermin...) The older generation will probably not forgive those who took part in the war, but they could perhaps at least understand that enough to stand back, allow the world to move on, and not let their hate destroy their children's futures in more warfare.

And they are not that different in terms of behavior compared to Humans. When it is said that "they will never forgive them", that implies the irrationality of branding those who had no part in the war the same as those who did, and those who have not even been born yet. Of course I doubt this will ever be brought up in the story, or that anyone will realize this and back off. We're just going to see this drag on and on perpetually I feel.

  • 12.15.2011 8:00 AM PDT

As long as there is a generation alive who has experienced the war it will be remembered and none will be forgiven. Imagine a 10 year old earth born kid who lost his parents during the war, he lives as long as Parangosky will. Do you think he'll forget/forgive these aliens who killed them?
Thus you need atleast 100years for the youngest generation to die out, and then there is the generation raised in the ashes of a devastating war. Having to clean up the rubble the war left, and to restore glassed planets. Until all those sins have washed away there's no forgetting such a devastating war.

Also the war with the Covenant started because the prophets used a forerunner detection device which highlights humans. This could've endangered the position of the prophets and that's why the order was given to exterminate all humans.
Humans destroying the halo's didn't help win them support with the covenant either, especially the elites.
There's no way you can agree to such reasoning. The elites have to go on their knees and then some before anyone forgives. But since the elites are too stuborn and hardly try to understand humans it will take miracle.

  • 12.15.2011 8:43 AM PDT

The problem is, instead of focusing on fixing the damage, they are charging off into the fray that could easily start another war.

Anton's points are solid. Glasslands pretty much doesn't acknowledge previous Elite behavior and the growing "hey... humanity isn't so awful" movement particularly in the youth.

We never said the war would be forgotten. Just that before it looked like both sides would MOVE ON. And forget these devastatingly narrow viewpoints.

  • 12.15.2011 9:52 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: mr_Sh4dy
As long as there is a generation alive who has experienced the war it will be remembered and none will be forgiven. Imagine a 10 year old earth born kid who lost his parents during the war, he lives as long as Parangosky will. Do you think he'll forget/forgive these aliens who killed them?

If most children of Humanity are raised orphans then yes I can see this being a massive contributor. Are most Human children in that time period orphans? The Covenant did not leave many survivors in their wake, and whatever colonies survived are quite untouched, and have not felt the effects of the Covenant on a personal level. I think you are assuming that all of Humanity was attacked all at once and that every single family lost someone. Besides the fact of the Inner colonies being sheltered by ONI Section II's propaganda machine, the personal effects have not hit home quite as badly as those who were actually attacked, of which I do not imagine there are many left. The remaining colonies, of which there are at least 4 named, are intact and were not touched as far as we know. Other than military serviceman and woman, they would not have lost much to the war. Venezia is an example of such a colony with Brutes, Grunts, Jackals and Humans all co-existing - that colony was never touched by a Covenant glassing beam.

Posted by: mr_Sh4dy
Thus you need atleast 100years for the youngest generation to die out, and then there is the generation raised in the ashes of a devastating war. Having to clean up the rubble the war left, and to restore glassed planets. Until all those sins have washed away there's no forgetting such a devastating war.

This applies to Earth most certainly, but not to practically every other colony that is still intact, like Lenapi, Forseti, Minister or Venezia. No rubble on these worlds. These people were, as Osman described of Earth, sheltered from the true nature of the war.

Posted by: mr_Sh4dy
Also the war with the Covenant started because the prophets used a forerunner detection device which highlights humans. This could've endangered the position of the prophets and that's why the order was given to exterminate all humans.

A reason which could have been used to make them seem like less of the cruel, xenocidal conquerors that most Humans will undoubtedly see them as at this point and more like the misled followers of a doomed faith who would not have done this had the puppeteers not had their chance at power. This is one thing that annoyed me about the novel. Regardless of whether people would accept this, no Elite makes the attempt, either to a Human or himself. Instead we just get this worthless Jul 'Mdama tripe. Anyway.

Posted by: mr_Sh4dy
Humans destroying the halo's didn't help win them support with the covenant either, especially the elites.
There's no way you can agree to such reasoning. The elites have to go on their knees and then some before anyone forgives. But since the elites are too stuborn and hardly try to understand humans it will take miracle.

As things stand, yes. Actually, from Glasslands perspective I guess I agree with you. Had the author done a bit more research though I feel this would not be the case, thus the points above. As for this bit, Traviss' opinion on how the Elites should behave after the war I find to be really nonsensical given how there was this zeitgeist about the nature of the war and the religion that they served which was the whole reason behind Truth excommunicating them and then trying to exterminate them. With Glasslands here, why did Truth get rid of the Elites? I mean from what I see, it seems like they would have had absolutely no problems finishing Humanity without batting an eye and then lighting the rings. But no, Truth now does something incredibly stupid that is convenient enough for Humanity to win with seemingly no reasoning behind it. The only real reason would be if the Elites were no longer trustworthy, and we have seen quite a lot of evidence of this. I don't believe the Great Schism was meant to be a shallow, lazy plot twist like that.

  • 12.15.2011 2:15 PM PDT

I'm not getting the hang of this quoting system so I'll just do it the old fashioned way.

@ Cmdr DaeFaron: Personally another war is what I see as something they (ONI) want, however with favorable conditions.
And after reading Anton's posts I do agree with his opinion about the current elites. I forgot some of the finer details mentioned in the games and focused too much on what Karin wrote about. But she did change the elites for the worse. A shame really.

@ anton1792

1-2: Those Inner colonies might not share the same viewpoint but they can't just pass off what has transpired. And though most inner colonies remained untouched, the outer ones did not and when they revisit those places they are confronted with the destruction left behind. Besides the shear loss of life hinders any form of cooperation between any civilization, even Venezia can't ignore those numbers.
However the people on earth though are scarred for life and I do not see them forgive the elites any time soon. Thus this could all result in a true rift between earth and it's colonies

3: Just because they were talked in to a war by the prophets with religous reasonings does not take away their blame or the blood on their hands. It's like the catholic church denying the destruction and horror caused by the crusades. They decided to fight the humans without question (excluding some). They were at fault at that and so why should humanity make the first move to correct their mistakes.

4: I agree with you that Traviss has undercut their previous development. She sort of mentions this in the article saying she recreates some characters from the ground up with the use some psuedo amateur psych mumbo jumbo. Which is pretty pretentious of her since there was nothing wrong with most characters in the first place and it's not like she is some sort of expert on this stuff.
However some of the changes she made, like why Jul 'Mdama hates humans was "explained" when there was a mentioning of some kind of incident.... Which could be (pure speculation) of that super bomb admiral Whitcomb destroyed an entire armada with. This might just be her setting up a possible side story/history.
And even though we both don't agree with her take on the elites, with the release of this novel it can only be considered canon.

  • 12.16.2011 5:32 AM PDT

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I find it interesting that Osman mentions that only one engineer has been recovered by ONI, and that was the one from ODST. so what happened to all the engineers that were recovered at the end of First Strike?

  • 12.16.2011 2:56 PM PDT