Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands
  • Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

See risay, that's why I respect you. We disagree, but you don't resort to calling people who didn't like Glasslands names because they didn't like the book. You actually bring up some valid points.

  • 11.01.2011 4:54 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Spartan 100
You don't like halo, then get out.
There is one canon. It's fixed, it's that.

You are like a little kid. You scream and cry unsupported declarative statements that contribute nothing of substance.

At no point did I say that I did not like Halo. You be very careful, because I did not say or imply that. My explanation for that went right over your head, so I will break it down for you:

The first 3 games were worked on by the team of writers and producers at Bungie - Staten, Parsons, Jones and a few others. It is their story. They and only they really know what Halo is about. Everyone else can take guesses based upon reasonable evidence and have their own opinions and interpretations. However, it is all inside the Bungie writers heads. Where is has been and where it is going, what it was telling us, what its purpose was etc, only they truly know. Anything Nylund and the other authors wrote drew heavily on notes created by those guys in shaping the over-arching Halo story. Any novels were closely supervised by Staten and Parsons. They set the guidelines and the key points in each novel.

Now we have 343 Industries, none of whom worked on that original story all those years ago. The people who originally crafted Halo's story are no longer in charge of what is and what is not canon, and how these stories evolve. The people at 343 Industries have their own opinions and interpretations of the canon with no oversight at Bungie. What is canon now is due to legal concerns and copyrights.

Posted by: Spartan 100
The great schism hasn't been ignored but I fail to see how you people imagine people. The book is still pretty realistic to me and I was facinated when I read it. I asked myself what was wrong with the people who say she's a bad author when I was in the middle of reading it.

Some brutes are still against the elites you know? Not every person of the same race thinks alike you know?

No one is saying that they do.

Quite a few Elites view Brutes as trustworthy, stable, competent and worthy enough to be their allies. (It has to be many, otherwise those Brutes would be ousted by angry mobs) This is quite a stretch for the Sangheili to make, yet not impossible. But hey, Humans are still worse apparently, despite the fact that Bungie had been dropping hints for years that they never thought that. How can they consider these Brutes to be more trustworthy and worthy than Humanity after how quickly they rose to slaughter the Sangheili in the Schism? They think "Not all Brutes are the same" but then turn around and say "All Humans are liars, thieves and vermin to be exterminated." This is what I am talking about. Bungie drops hints all throughout their canon, and then as soon as we see what 343i does with the same time period, it is all erased from the face of existence.

I maintain that there are two "canons". I should get Paulmarv to come in here...

  • 11.01.2011 4:55 PM PDT

Was already posted here.

  • 11.01.2011 4:57 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
See risay, that's why I respect you. We disagree, but you don't resort to calling people who didn't like Glasslands names because they didn't like the book. You actually bring up some valid points.

well i did resort to it once and i hated that. anyway hope it never happens to me again or anyone else.

anyway she did have her own view of it from the outside, although i believe the prerequisite of writing a halo book should now be play the original trilogy and then read the books related to your story then write one.

It will allow the authors some understanding. Also some of the best people i see who should do this job are in the Gallery forum, Wolver is one of the top picks out there and many more are there.

  • 11.01.2011 4:59 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

Because that's how you seem to me! It appears that it's [always] the same people.

  • 11.01.2011 5:06 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Spartan 100
Because that's how you seem to me! It appears that it's [always] the same people.


So it's bad to generalize characters in a book, but perfectly okay to do so with real people?

Really?

  • 11.01.2011 5:07 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Spartan 100
Because that's how you seem to me! It appears that it's [always] the same people.

Are you actually going to contribute anything of substance?

  • 11.01.2011 5:09 PM PDT

yas334229812

Lets just get this fight over with we will end up filling pages with fights, these writers need some knowledge of the halo universe(through playing the games and reading the books related to their story), although i still hope that bungie still had a role init.

Also she made a couple of mistake which we can if she listens use to help her write a better story, still i believe 343i should hire people from the Gallery Forum as they can do a better job with less scrutiny and are accepted by many than her although she may be doing good for someone who knows very little of the universe.

  • 11.01.2011 5:10 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins


Posted by: jross1993
and I quote

"Maybe Halsey is right and she's a patriot, maybe she's a monster like Dr. Mengele. It's your call."

Yeah right. A big portion of the book was "Halsey's bad. Bad evil bad". Didn't exactly give the reader that opportunity to judge for themselves.
I don't think Halsey is portreyed as being evil. It just shows that she is an arrogant, borderline narcissist, and some other people think she is evil. It lets you into her head to a greater extent than the other books, and also shows you the opinions of other characters about her.

  • 11.01.2011 5:10 PM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

people also need to understand that the views of jul, and 'telcam are not the views of all elites. they are hypocritical bastards. the fact that the Arbiter is still in charge without much rebellion against him shows that most elites agree with him to some extent at least.

  • 11.01.2011 5:19 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Darthbill99
people also need to understand that the views of jul, and 'telcam are not the views of all elites. they are hypocritical bastards. the fact that the Arbiter is still in charge without much rebellion against him shows that most elites agree with him to some extent at least.


Yet we don't get that since we receive no other viewpoints besides from the anti-human crowd. And just because nobody tried anything didn't mean the Elites agree with him, there is a lack of arms and such to mount a big rebellion...until 'Telcam came along.

  • 11.01.2011 5:22 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: grey101
Thank you.

anyways who is the AI spy?? BB isn't spying on anything or one.


BB's primary purpose is to help the Stanley crew on their secret sabotage mission to further destabilize the Elites. A chunk of those duties includes eavesdropping on communications. In addition to that, he's kept a part of himself still in the ONI systems to keep tabs on secrets he doesn't want to miss out on while simultaneously blocking out any other AI that want to snoop around for info.

That certainly fits the bill for "spying on anything or one".

  • 11.01.2011 5:34 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Darthbill99
people also need to understand that the views of jul, and 'telcam are not the views of all elites. they are hypocritical bastards. the fact that the Arbiter is still in charge without much rebellion against him shows that most elites agree with him to some extent at least.

They do not represent all of them, just most of them. Those under 'Telcam have ideological reasons to destroy Humanity, so they are a ticking timebomb. Humanity tampering with Forerunner technology would be considered sacrilege to them.

Those who are like Jul have obvious intentions.

The other main group that we see so far are those who follow the Arbiter, whom we all assume do not want to destroy Humanity and may view Humanity with some some measure of respect like was hinted at so often before. However the Arbiter's camp is broken in two as well:

There are cold hearted Pragmatists and then there are those who we assume are like Thel, Rtas or N'tho. There exist those who follow the Arbiter not because they do not want to continue war against Humanity, but because they simply cannot continue war and are intelligent enough to understand that. However, given enough resources and ships then it is likely that they would be on Jul and Telcam's side of the camp. Levu and Raia are examples of this.

There is all of this negativity, but not a single, simple positive. Sympathizers will exist, but they are probably impotent and hiding in the closet.

  • 11.01.2011 5:35 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The way it was worded i thought she meant as if he is watching the crew.

  • 11.01.2011 5:35 PM PDT

yas334229812

anton for me this is the biggest problem
sympathizers scared of showing their colours as they fear as they may be ripped in half by others or disowned by their family. These are dangerous time and sometimes supporting those who can protect you is a better cause than showing your true colours.

  • 11.01.2011 5:40 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: grey101
The way it was worded i thought she meant as if he is watching the crew.


He does that too regardless. After all, the crew is bugged out by that initially until they finally get used to his presence everywhere.

  • 11.01.2011 5:40 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Spartan 100
You don't like halo, then get out.
There is one canon. It's fixed, it's that.

You are like a little kid. You scream and cry unsupported declarative statements that contribute nothing of substance.

At no point did I say that I did not like Halo. You be very careful, because I did not say or imply that. My explanation for that went right over your head, so I will break it down for you:

The first 3 games were worked on by the team of writers and producers at Bungie - Staten, Parsons, Jones and a few others. It is their story. They and only they really know what Halo is about. Everyone else can take guesses based upon reasonable evidence and have their own opinions and interpretations. However, it is all inside the Bungie writers heads. Where is has been and where it is going, what it was telling us, what its purpose was etc, only they truly know. Anything Nylund and the other authors wrote drew heavily on notes created by those guys in shaping the over-arching Halo story. Any novels were closely supervised by Staten and Parsons. They set the guidelines and the key points in each novel.

Now we have 343 Industries, none of whom worked on that original story all those years ago. The people who originally crafted Halo's story are no longer in charge of what is and what is not canon, and how these stories evolve. The people at 343 Industries have their own opinions and interpretations of the canon with no oversight at Bungie. What is canon now is due to legal concerns and copyrights.

Posted by: Spartan 100
The great schism hasn't been ignored but I fail to see how you people imagine people. The book is still pretty realistic to me and I was facinated when I read it. I asked myself what was wrong with the people who say she's a bad author when I was in the middle of reading it.

Some brutes are still against the elites you know? Not every person of the same race thinks alike you know?

No one is saying that they do.

Quite a few Elites view Brutes as trustworthy, stable, competent and worthy enough to be their allies. (It has to be many, otherwise those Brutes would be ousted by angry mobs) This is quite a stretch for the Sangheili to make, yet not impossible. But hey, Humans are still worse apparently, despite the fact that Bungie had been dropping hints for years that they never thought that. How can they consider these Brutes to be more trustworthy and worthy than Humanity after how quickly they rose to slaughter the Sangheili in the Schism? They think "Not all Brutes are the same" but then turn around and say "All Humans are liars, thieves and vermin to be exterminated." This is what I am talking about. Bungie drops hints all throughout their canon, and then as soon as we see what 343i does with the same time period, it is all erased from the face of existence.

I maintain that there are two "canons". I should get Paulmarv to come in here...

I disagree with the 'Two canon' opinion that I've seen a few times here on Bnet.

It reminds me a bit of some of the old 'EU is Canon'/'Eu isn't Canon' discussions about Star Wars that I was in back in the day, as more and more I'm seeing the similarities between the two.


I'm sure that Jones, Staten and Parsons had plenty of ideas on where to take the future of the Halo series, and I'm sure that they would be different in many ways than some of the plots and storylines that are occurring under 343's stewardship.

The thing is, Bungie handed over those reins with full consent. If they had wanted to keep on making Halo games for years to come, I'm sure that Microsoft would have been more than happy to oblige them, but they decided not to. Like it or not, 343's the new sheriff in town.

I realize that having a franchise leave it's original creator(s) is a rather daunting prospect(For instance, I will not read any Sherlock Holmes stories not written by Doyle, and I can't imagine anyone other than JK Rowling penning Harry Potter books.), but when that same original creator gives full consent, you just have to take the good with the bad.


Look again at Star Wars. There are some people that maintain that the only things in the SW universe that are canon are the events in the movies, and that all of the EU material is analagous to the Star Trek series-non canon, it didn't happen.
Of course, George Lucas gave his permission and blessing to the EU material, and despite his disintrest in it, it still means that it's canon.

It'd be interesting to see a similar canon system set up, though, where events in the games trump everything else, and so on.

Here's an example:
'B' Canon-Canon in the titles published by Bungie.
'G' Canon- Canon in other video games not created by Bungie.
'N' Canon- Canon in the various Halo Novels, regardless of author.
'C' Canon- Canon in the various Halo comic book series.
'O' Canon- Canon in any other media not listed above.
'U' Canon- Ambiguous canon, aka material without any other sources to back it up.
'N' Canon- Non-canon. Consider it a 'what-if' story, similar to the Star Wars Infinities series.

It'd be similar to this.

I might make a thread about this sometime...

  • 11.01.2011 5:42 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

See for me there are clearly two sets of canon; Bungie and everything else. There are so many pieces in the Halo universe that don't mesh well or at all with each other; The Package, Halo Wars, Halo Reach vs FoR and so on.

I personally have no problems with Halo being continued by 343i, and even though I would prefer Bungie to still be at the helm things change. Life goes on. My only issue is the quality. I'd rather 343i release only a few high quality Halo pieces (be it a game, cartoon or novel), ensuring that;

1. It makes sense
2. It doesn't degrade the quality of the Halo franchise

At present I've seen hardly anything that meets those two things. Origins from Legends springs to mind.

Just wish they understood that good old saying; too many cooks spoil the broth.

  • 11.01.2011 5:50 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

All is canon and they expressed that everything will be linked to eachother.

  • 11.01.2011 5:51 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: flamedude
See for me there are clearly two sets of canon; Bungie and everything else. There are so many pieces in the Halo universe that don't mesh well or at all with each other; The Package, Halo Wars, Halo Reach vs FoR and so on.

I personally have no problems with Halo being continued by 343i, and even though I would prefer Bungie to still be at the helm things change. Life goes on. My only issue is the quality. I'd rather 343i release only a few high quality Halo pieces (be it a game, cartoon or novel), ensuring that;

1. It makes sense
2. It doesn't degrade the quality of the Halo franchise

At present I've seen hardly anything that meets those two things. Origins from Legends springs to mind.

Just wish they understood that good old saying; too many cooks spoil the broth.

I understand, and I think that 343 has started to address some of those things with the Data Drops that started a while back.

I agree that they shouldn't just shovel out some crap with the Halo name on it, but I don't think that they will.

I think that a few of the Legends shorts were nominally good stories, a few of them weren't, it's just that the medium didn't really seem to fit the Halo franchise as well as the more traditional presentation.

I think that if they stay focused(as they have to a large amount, in my opinion), make interesting, compelling narratives in the Halo universe, that incorporate events, places, people, etc from the games into a piece that sheds new light on said entities, that we won't have a giant canon problem.


As to your final statement-Not if they are all excellent cooks, and they all know what they are doing.

  • 11.01.2011 5:59 PM PDT

In regards to novels and "canon". I will pick and choose which ones to support as I damn well please. Cryptum and Glasslands are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.

Don't like that? Boo hoo.

Sure they're "canon" but that doesn't mean I have to support them, their existence, or the continued careers of their respective writers.


Posted by: thebobafettest
It'd be interesting to see a similar canon system set up, though, where events in the games trump everything else, and so on.

I was under the impression that there was, like the games trump everything and the books are right under that and so on.

I mean there were things that happened in a book like "The Flood" that never happened in Halo CE, so which one is official? I'd lean towards the game.

Of with Nylund's First Strike in hinting at the Chief fighting the future Arbiter aboard the Ascendant Justice. Halo 2 had the Arbiter in the golden armor of a Zealot while the book had him in the shadowy black armor of the Special Operations Forces if I recall correctly. Which one to follow? Game trumps book there as well for me.

Posted by: thebobafettest

Here's an example:
'B' Canon-Canon in the titles published by Bungie.
'G' Canon- Canon in other video games not created by Bungie.
'N' Canon- Canon in the various Halo Novels, regardless of author.
'C' Canon- Canon in the various Halo comic book series.
'O' Canon- Canon in any other media not listed above.
'U' Canon- Ambiguous canon, aka material without any other sources to back it up.
'N' Canon- Non-canon. Consider it a 'what-if' story, similar to the Star Wars Infinities series.

7 types of canon...hmm...

  • 11.01.2011 5:59 PM PDT

Hey, now!

This is officially either the greatest or worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars. I'm going with the former.


Posted by: Astartes Marine

Posted by: thebobafettest
It'd be interesting to see a similar canon system set up, though, where events in the games trump everything else, and so on.

I was under the impression that there was, like the games trump everything and the books are right under that and so on.

I mean there were things that happened in a book like "The Flood" that never happened in Halo CE, so which one is official? I'd lean towards the game.

Of with Nylund's First Strike in hinting at the Chief fighting the future Arbiter aboard the Ascendant Justice. Halo 2 had the Arbiter in the golden armor of a Zealot while the book had him in the shadowy black armor of the Special Operations Forces if I recall correctly. Which one to follow? Game trumps book there as well for me.

Posted by: thebobafettest

Here's an example:
'B' Canon-Canon in the titles published by Bungie.
'G' Canon- Canon in other video games not created by Bungie.
'N' Canon- Canon in the various Halo Novels, regardless of author.
'C' Canon- Canon in the various Halo comic book series.
'O' Canon- Canon in any other media not listed above.
'U' Canon- Ambiguous canon, aka material without any other sources to back it up.
'N' Canon- Non-canon. Consider it a 'what-if' story, similar to the Star Wars Infinities series.

7 types of canon...hmm...

There is a system, though I think it's basically an unofficial one at the moment, where Game>Everything Else.

I think that they retconned so it's not the Arbiter on the Ascendent Justice, just some random Elite.


As for the 7 types of canon, that was entirely unintentional....



Or was it?

  • 11.01.2011 6:07 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: thebobafettest
The thing is, Bungie handed over those reins with full consent. If they had wanted to keep on making Halo games for years to come, I'm sure that Microsoft would have been more than happy to oblige them, but they decided not to. Like it or not, 343's the new sheriff in town.

I realize that having a franchise leave it's original creator(s) is a rather daunting prospect(For instance, I will not read any Sherlock Holmes stories not written by Doyle, and I can't imagine anyone other than JK Rowling penning Harry Potter books.), but when that same original creator gives full consent, you just have to take the good with the bad.

Well, Bungie lost Halo in the parting agreement with Microsoft. Microsoft bought the rights to the Halo IP when they bought Bungie back in 2000. So Microsoft have always owned it. Bungie got tired of making Halo games and wanted to move on, but in order to do so it meant losing control of the Halo IP. They have said that if they could have taken Halo with them then they would have, but the price of freedom was to lose that IP. (I think that was in their most recent ViDoc) I don't think that they were all that willing to give it up.

Also, I am not saying that there are, literally, two canons to be outlined. I am more or less saying that there has been a very different sort of Halo emerging lately with different ideas underlying it.

  • 11.01.2011 6:09 PM PDT
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  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I have the original fall of reach and nothing was said or implied about an arbiter.

  • 11.01.2011 6:10 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: thebobafettest
I think that they retconned so it's not the Arbiter on the Ascendent Justice, just some random Elite.


As for the 7 types of canon, that was entirely unintentional....



Or was it?


If anything, the reissued version of The Flood's (or was it First Strike?) adjunct section still makes it unclear where Thel was after Halo blew up. Shortly before it blew he personally boarded the Ascendant Justice to ensure crew loyalty to the fleet. The next two entries just simply note that the fleet moved behind the gas giant after the Halo blew. No word if he transferred back to his flag ship or remained on the Ascendant Justice by the time First Strike occurs.

  • 11.01.2011 6:19 PM PDT