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This topic has moved here: Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands
  • Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands
Subject: Q/A with Karen Traviss on Halo Glasslands


Posted by: grey101
Can i get a quote on that? because i always say that the lack of intelligence is why i act out now.


Can I get some proof to back up this constant claim that you're so intelligent?

  • 11.22.2011 2:55 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

This thread.

  • 11.22.2011 3:00 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
This thread.


I'm the fire. But seriously, a few pages back I gave a very long post detailing my thoughts on Glasslands, defending it and just one person replied and went off on a tangent about National Socialist scientists so eh, screw it.

Oh, and another thing. You said in a post that the Prophets might have genetically interfered to retard the Sangheili; I responded with a very detailed post including biological terminology and you just responded with a 'you're off topic.' What was that all about?

[Edited on 11.22.2011 3:15 PM PST]

  • 11.22.2011 3:02 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: anton1792
This thread.

I'm the fire. But seriously, a few pages back I gave a very long post detailing my thoughts on Glasslands, defending it and just one person replied and went off on a tangent about National Socialist scientists so eh, screw it.

It happens. Though I think both sides of the recent flamefest on grammar and who is the smarter Bungie.net user are just as silly as each other.

Anyway, I did not have that much of an opinion on Halsey or Mendez as characters so I just went with Glasslands on that. I have my issues with other bits that I did have opinions on before, but it has not been brought up in this thread for a while so I left it. Though I will say that forcibly comparing Halsey to Josef Mengele is too much if you know anything about what that monster did.

  • 11.22.2011 3:14 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: anton1792
This thread.


I'm the fire. But seriously, a few pages back I gave a very long post detailing my thoughts on Glasslands, defending it and just one person replied and went off on a tangent about National Socialist scientists so eh, screw it.

2 people.
I find it utterly disappointing that Halsey can be compared to Mengele. I'm sure this was an attempt by Karen Traviss to draw parallels with Mengele, which fall quite flat in my opinion.

The parallel in question (aside from the genetic experiments which are far different) is Mengele's attitude towards the people he experimented on. They were better fed and housed than others, protected from the gas chambers (though only until Mengele could experiment on them). Mengele introduced himself to his child subjects as "Uncle Mengele" and offered them sweets. This is probably the message that Traviss was trying to convey but their vast differences rob it of it's punch.

  • 11.22.2011 3:17 PM PDT

It is a strong analogy and one I don't agree with, but I think what Traviss was trying to say is that for all the good she did, if Halsey had done the same thing in WWII she would have ended up at Nuremburg too.

She just went about conveying the analogy in the wrong way. No writer can be completely perfect.

  • 11.22.2011 3:18 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Wolverfrog
It is a strong analogy and one I don't agree with, but I think what Traviss was trying to say is that for all the good she did, if Halsey had done the same thing in WWII she would have ended up at Nuremburg too.

She just went about conveying the analogy in the wrong way. No writer can be completely perfect.

And that is where the analogy falls flat. Halsey did good things that saved millions of lives. Mengele didn't.

  • 11.22.2011 3:28 PM PDT


Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Wolverfrog
It is a strong analogy and one I don't agree with, but I think what Traviss was trying to say is that for all the good she did, if Halsey had done the same thing in WWII she would have ended up at Nuremburg too.

She just went about conveying the analogy in the wrong way. No writer can be completely perfect.

And that is where the analogy falls flat. Halsey did good things that saved millions of lives. Mengele didn't.


If through his experiments he'd discovered a cure for cancer or the legacy of his research stopped a fatal pandemic in the future, then you could say the same thing about him.

Of course, he'd still be a monster and Halsey isn't nearly so bad. But there's still an element of truth to the analogy, although I would have chosen a different one if I'd written it.

  • 11.22.2011 3:31 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I can see why Traviss painted Halsey in a negative light for what she did in the Spartan-II Program, but why exactly is she the proverbial Atlas carrying the whole weight of the program on her back?

  • 11.22.2011 3:39 PM PDT

It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died. Rather we should thank god that such men lived. ----------- No Bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. (both by George S. Patton jr.)


Posted by: grey101
your only getting a rise out of me because im purposely doing it incase i feel like reporting you for misconduct. another reason why i have been civil and purposely writing worse.


Don't try out smarting me; especially if your not even going to be clever.

Grey you have no right to tell him you have been civil.
You have countless times been arrogant to people who were trying to get an idea about the haloverse.
News flash not everyone knows as much as you in fact I think that the people who you put down for not knowing things,didn't read the right info. But instead of telling them what they did wrong you bash them as if you're the guy who carries the biggest stick on the block.

  • 11.22.2011 3:40 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: Wolverfrog
It is a strong analogy and one I don't agree with, but I think what Traviss was trying to say is that for all the good she did, if Halsey had done the same thing in WWII she would have ended up at Nuremburg too.

She just went about conveying the analogy in the wrong way. No writer can be completely perfect.

And that is where the analogy falls flat. Halsey did good things that saved millions of lives. Mengele didn't.


If through his experiments he'd discovered a cure for cancer or the legacy of his research stopped a fatal pandemic in the future, then you could say the same thing about him.

Of course, he'd still be a monster and Halsey isn't nearly so bad. But there's still an element of truth to the analogy, although I would have chosen a different one if I'd written it.

I would still regard Mengele as a monster because his experiments resulted in enormous loss of life, many of it needlessly. Halsey tried her hardest to make sure the program was as safe as possible (remember that snippet about her testing the augments on animals?), this alone makes her a better person than Mengele who would probably grab a dozen random children, shoot them up with drugs and see what happened.

  • 11.22.2011 3:47 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

And say what you will about the clones, but they provided closure AND saved ONI's ass.

  • 11.22.2011 3:48 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And say what you will about the clones, but they provided closure AND saved ONI's ass.


Except Naomi's clone has basically started a new insurrection. So that one kind of back-fired.

:P

  • 11.22.2011 3:50 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And say what you will about the clones, but they provided closure AND saved ONI's ass.

On the topic of clones:
Posted by: Xd00999
The ODSTs were getting all worked up over her cloning her brain for Cortana. Why is that such a huge issue? It is a cloned brain, she didn't go out into the streets , kill a scientist and steal their brain, but they are treating it like she did.

  • 11.22.2011 3:52 PM PDT


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And say what you will about the clones, but they provided closure AND saved ONI's ass.


Except Naomi's clone has basically started a new insurrection. So that one kind of back-fired.

:P


Only cause ONI handled it horribly. They could've easily done a tiny bit of work and had no problems :P.

  • 11.22.2011 3:53 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And say what you will about the clones, but they provided closure AND saved ONI's ass.


Except Naomi's clone has basically started a new insurrection. So that one kind of back-fired.

:P


Which was ONI's fault. I mean, if ONI was that concerned with her father, you would think that an organization that can perform tests on the Flood in a prison ship, fund an Elite civil war and acrew a number of top-secret projects can either

A. Assassinate him and blame it on the rebels
B. Handle the medical side of it better as Dae says

  • 11.22.2011 3:56 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And say what you will about the clones, but they provided closure AND saved ONI's ass.


Except Naomi's clone has basically started a new insurrection. So that one kind of back-fired.

:P


Only cause ONI handled it horribly. They could've easily done a tiny bit of work and had no problems :P.


Parangosky said she didn't know about the clones until years later; if the head of ONI didn't, I doubt many others did. But that said, I don't understand how Parangosky didn't know; surely she'd keep close tabs on the families the SII candidates were taken from.

  • 11.22.2011 3:56 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And say what you will about the clones, but they provided closure AND saved ONI's ass.


Except Naomi's clone has basically started a new insurrection. So that one kind of back-fired.

:P


Only cause ONI handled it horribly. They could've easily done a tiny bit of work and had no problems :P.


Parangosky said she didn't know about the clones until years later; if the head of ONI didn't, I doubt many others did. But that said, I don't understand how Parangosky didn't know; surely she'd keep close tabs on the families the SII candidates were taken from.

I believe that is what one may call a plot hole. Parangosky is ONI's brain, the fact that anything as big as the clones could get past her is beyond me. They handwave it by saying that Halsey hid it in the budget. How can you hide 75 clones in the budget?!? That's not lunch money!

  • 11.22.2011 4:00 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Xd00999
How can you hide 75 clones in the budget?!? That's not lunch money!


She probably slid it somewhere with the next seven Spartan programs and top-secret Forerunner-ladden ships.

  • 11.22.2011 4:01 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
How can you hide 75 clones in the budget?!? That's not lunch money!


She probably slid it somewhere with the next seven Spartan programs and top-secret Forerunner-ladden ships.

Don't remind me about those.

  • 11.22.2011 4:02 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
How can you hide 75 clones in the budget?!? That's not lunch money!


She probably slid it somewhere with the next seven Spartan programs and top-secret Forerunner-ladden ships.

Don't remind me about those.

I know the feeling. Seems to me the Halo technological leaps are getting bigger by the chapters.

  • 11.22.2011 4:03 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Wolverfrog

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And say what you will about the clones, but they provided closure AND saved ONI's ass.


Except Naomi's clone has basically started a new insurrection. So that one kind of back-fired.

:P


Only cause ONI handled it horribly. They could've easily done a tiny bit of work and had no problems :P.


Parangosky said she didn't know about the clones until years later; if the head of ONI didn't, I doubt many others did. But that said, I don't understand how Parangosky didn't know; surely she'd keep close tabs on the families the SII candidates were taken from.

Or she was distracted by other important matters, example being onyx. Something of that magnitude would have been alot more important than the S-II's she may have assigned someone else to it and never noticed it in any of his reports, as reports do end up very lengthy. She may be just interested in the result of the project, and kept her eyes on these architectures trying to understand and harness them, plus keep them a secret for as long as possible.

  • 11.22.2011 4:05 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Xd00999
How can you hide 75 clones in the budget?!? That's not lunch money!


She probably slid it somewhere with the next seven Spartan programs and top-secret Forerunner-ladden ships.

Don't remind me about those.

I know the feeling. Seems to me the Halo technological leaps are getting bigger by the chapters.


Don't understand the problem. People accepted the SIII program without much ado. Integrating Forerunner technology into UNSC ships seems like a wise and probable move, and in my opinion made possible with Vergil's assistance.

[Edited on 11.22.2011 4:08 PM PST]

  • 11.22.2011 4:07 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: risay_117
Or she was distracted by other important matters, example being onyx. Something of that magnitude would have been alot more important than the S-II's she may have assigned someone else to it and never noticed it in any of his reports, as reports do end up very lengthy. She may be just interested in the result of the project, and kept her eyes on these architectures trying to understand and harness them, plus keep them a secret for as long as possible.


I don't buy it. I mean, throughout any piece of info we got on Maggie it seems like she was in the know about nearly everything. However the one thing she conveniently didn't know was about the cloning of 75 kids her agents just kidnapped?

  • 11.22.2011 4:08 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Don't understand the problem. People accepted the SIII program without much ado. Integrating Forerunner technology into UNSC ships seems like a wise and probable move, and in my opinion made possible with Vergil's assistance.


That was at least hinted at and had some elaboration, the S-III program. Infinity and the S-IV did not.

  • 11.22.2011 4:10 PM PDT