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Subject: Unannounced changes in HCEA campaign: picture proof
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Posted by: Mikelp_1
They've already stressed enough times that it is 100% exactly the same as Halo CE in terms of gameplay aside from some tiny terminals and skulls. They wouldn't just pretend they never said that.

Then explain this Wraith?

  • 11.04.2011 7:58 PM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.


Posted by: the pib

Posted by: Mikelp_1
They've already stressed enough times that it is 100% exactly the same as Halo CE in terms of gameplay aside from some tiny terminals and skulls. They wouldn't just pretend they never said that.

Then explain this Wraith?


Failure. Thats a pretty good explanation.


Chances are, it isn't usable and it just sits there the entire game without being operated by anything.

  • 11.04.2011 8:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mikelp_1

Posted by: the pib

Posted by: Mikelp_1
They've already stressed enough times that it is 100% exactly the same as Halo CE in terms of gameplay aside from some tiny terminals and skulls. They wouldn't just pretend they never said that.

Then explain this Wraith?


Failure. Thats a pretty good explanation.


Chances are, it isn't usable and it just sits there the entire game without being operated by anything.

Do you really think 343 would make such a foolish and lazy error, especially in a game where the whole point is aesthetics?

  • 11.04.2011 8:03 PM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.


Posted by: the pib

Posted by: Mikelp_1

Posted by: the pib

Posted by: Mikelp_1
They've already stressed enough times that it is 100% exactly the same as Halo CE in terms of gameplay aside from some tiny terminals and skulls. They wouldn't just pretend they never said that.

Then explain this Wraith?


Failure. Thats a pretty good explanation.


Chances are, it isn't usable and it just sits there the entire game without being operated by anything.

Do you really think 343 would make such a foolish and lazy error, especially in a game where the whole point is aesthetics?



When you shoot the shotgun, your face actually goes inside the shotgun model...so, I wouldn't be surprised. And maybe they just have some sort of explanation for its inability to be used for the entire game. Maybe it would be easier to explain why the Wraith had a turret on Reach, but they decided to strip it for no reason a little bit later and then add it on again even later.

  • 11.04.2011 8:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mikelp_1

Posted by: the pib

Posted by: Mikelp_1

Posted by: the pib

Posted by: Mikelp_1
They've already stressed enough times that it is 100% exactly the same as Halo CE in terms of gameplay aside from some tiny terminals and skulls. They wouldn't just pretend they never said that.

Then explain this Wraith?


Failure. Thats a pretty good explanation.


Chances are, it isn't usable and it just sits there the entire game without being operated by anything.

Do you really think 343 would make such a foolish and lazy error, especially in a game where the whole point is aesthetics?



When you shoot the shotgun, your face actually goes inside the shotgun model...so, I wouldn't be surprised. And maybe they just have some sort of explanation for its inability to be used for the entire game. Maybe it would be easier to explain why the Wraith had a turret on Reach, but they decided to strip it for no reason a little bit later and then add it on again even later.

There's a difference between an animation glitch and including a major feature in the game that's visible but unusable. One is an irrelevant graphical fail that only matters for 1/30 of a second (a frame), the other would be completely illogical.

If the HCEA Wraith is to function like the CE Wraith, why not make it look like the CE Wraith, instead of making it look like the H3 one with a gun that does nothing?

And regarding the timeline, gameplay always trumps canon.

[Edited on 11.04.2011 8:33 PM PDT]

  • 11.04.2011 8:27 PM PDT

I <3 Halo:Reach - amazingly fun and best campaign + amazing Soundtrack
I <3 Halo 3:ODST - best soundtrack + Firefight + Coastal Highway and Mombassa Streets, amazingly unique campaign.
I <3 Halo 3 - best multiplayer levels + Forge + best Custom Games + soundtrack
I <3 Halo 2 - amazing huge fun campaign + soundtrack + Fun multiplayer
I <3 Halo: CE - started it all

That picture you showed made the games graphics look really bad for some reason.

  • 11.04.2011 8:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: NoWise10
That picture you showed made the games graphics look really bad for some reason.

Because it's a frame of a paused video, not an in-game screenshot.

  • 11.04.2011 8:58 PM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.


Posted by: the pib

There's a difference between an animation glitch and including a major feature in the game that's visible but unusable. One is an irrelevant graphical fail that only matters for 1/30 of a second (a frame), the other would be completely illogical.

If the HCEA Wraith is to function like the CE Wraith, why not make it look like the CE Wraith, instead of making it look like the H3 one with a gun that does nothing?

And regarding the timeline, gameplay always trumps canon.





Why does the Halo CE shotgun look like the Reach shotgun if it performs like the CE shotgun? If the models are exactly the same, why can one go around with more ammo without some aesthetic hi-cap add-on to the gun? This is just one tiny fallacy. You can see how your logic based off of models doesn't really help either of our causes.

Second: Exactly... gameplay trumps canon, hence why allowing this turret to magically not be usable to preserve classic gameplay is just as likely because it is just as canon-breaking (in the sense that the guns were just never used) as a new vehicle model being pumped out every 5 seconds.



Either way, why would 343 go out of their way to make one insignificant change to a game to go completely against what they have said to each gamer when they announced the game: that it would be 100% Halo CE running on the same engine with nothing new but a new graphics layer and 2 tiny extras: terminals and skulls. They would have to do a ton of coding for the wraiths and add in animations for getting in the turrets, etc... just to make the game NOT an accurate remake. That sounds like going out of their way to make extra work for themselves that no one is asking for.

Sounds much more possible in the sense that they probably just ripped a newer wraith model and based it off of that currently used model.

[Edited on 11.04.2011 9:03 PM PDT]

  • 11.04.2011 9:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mikelp_1

Sounds much more possible in the sense that they probably just ripped a newer wraith model and based it off of that currently used model.


The HCEA shotgun looks like the Reach shotgun because the Reach shotgun looks cooler, end of story. Your theory of a big freaking plasma turret that's there just for looks is on a whole different level of weird.

When you look at the Reach quality detail they put into reskinning the AI, vehicles, weapons, skybox, scenery and cut scenes, do you really think it's possible that they just "forgot" to overhaul the Wraith? And I doubt it's even technically possible to "copy and paste" graphical assets from Reach or Halo 3 into a ten year old game.

[Edited on 11.04.2011 9:19 PM PDT]

  • 11.04.2011 9:16 PM PDT
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Halo 2 had a wraith where you couldn't shoot it's anti-infantry turret, but AI could. Just saying they don't have to let anyone use it even if it's there.

  • 11.04.2011 9:23 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.

Nice find, but it's only a gameplay change if there's a gunner in the turret seat. I sure don't see a gunner.

  • 11.04.2011 9:24 PM PDT
Subject: Looks like Anniversary's campaign has some changes from the ori...

If I had to guess, I'd say it's an updated graphic (because that is what an updated Wraith looks like), but the turret will either never be used, or does not work at all.

  • 11.04.2011 9:28 PM PDT
Subject: Unannounced changes in HCEA campaign: picture proof
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Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Nice find, but it's only a gameplay change if there's a gunner in the turret seat. I sure don't see a gunner.

It's very likely the gunner seat is only there for a second player in co-op, since the AI lack the programming and animation to use that turret.

  • 11.04.2011 9:29 PM PDT


Posted by: the pib

Posted by: irishdUDE117
Cry moar about small details holy -blam!-?

I'm not upset, the Wraith is my favorite vehicle and the more action it gets the better. I'm just pointing out something (that I don't think anyone else noted before) that means HCEA won't be the carbon copy of CE that 343 claims.


Right, because it was ALWAYS a carbon copy. Even after they added skulls and the like.

  • 11.04.2011 9:31 PM PDT

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Posted by: RustedEdge

Posted by: Zomechin
They simply took the H3 model and copied it. They've said over 50 times that they don't want to change the gameplay. It's just graphically there, but I guarantee it won't work.


I'm surprised that they left the turret there.

I'm not, the Halo games have had their lazy editing moments.
It either is the Wraith with a useless turret, or it can be used by the AI.
Another thing to check on, are the Banshee's board-able? Or the Wraiths? Or any Covy vehicle for that matter? I don't recall being able to board in H:CE, only in 2 and after, correct?

[Edited on 11.04.2011 9:38 PM PDT]

  • 11.04.2011 9:32 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: the pib

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Nice find, but it's only a gameplay change if there's a gunner in the turret seat. I sure don't see a gunner.

It's very likely the gunner seat is only there for a second player in co-op, since the AI lack the programming and animation to use that turret.
In all likelihood, it's probably just a nod to the current Wraith's design that was made intentionally while upgrading everything else. It's most likely completely inoperable by players and AI alike. It's just there to bring the design differences between the installments full-circle. There's already chronological inconsistencies out the ass when it comes to weapons, vehicles, and equipment. I gave up caring about that in Halo 2. It's probably a purely aesthetic change.

  • 11.04.2011 9:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: the pib

Posted by: The Ruckus 2010
Nice find, but it's only a gameplay change if there's a gunner in the turret seat. I sure don't see a gunner.

It's very likely the gunner seat is only there for a second player in co-op, since the AI lack the programming and animation to use that turret.
In all likelihood, it's probably just a nod to the current Wraith's design that was made intentionally while upgrading everything else. It's most likely completely inoperable by players and AI alike. It's just there to bring the design differences between the installments full-circle. There's already chronological inconsistencies out the ass when it comes to weapons, vehicles, and equipment. I gave up caring about that in Halo 2. It's probably a purely aesthetic change.

An aesthetic change would be changing the color or texture or maybe giving it some truck nuts, not adding a big whopping turret that does nothing. That would be as silly as adding a non-functioning grenade launcher attachment or a scope to the Assault Rifle.

[Edited on 11.04.2011 9:40 PM PDT]

  • 11.04.2011 9:39 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: Balbazak

I'm not, the Halo games have had their lazy editing moments.
It either is the Wraith with a useless turret, or it can be used.
Another thing to check on, are the Banshee's board-able? Or the Wraiths? Or any Covy vehicle for that matter? I don't recall being able to board in H:CE, only in 2 and after, correct?
Correct. In fact, you'd get splattered if a vehicle so much as knicked you at two miles per hour. You'd have a hard time boarding vehicles with those mechanics. lol

  • 11.04.2011 9:39 PM PDT

Are you a grade 4 in Halo 3's Matchmaking? If so, please check us out: The Upper Echelon
We welcome all grade 4's form Master Sergeants to 5 Star Generals.
We've been featured on Bungie favorites, and are always looking for new members to join.

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Posted by: The Ruckus 2010

Posted by: Balbazak
Another thing to check on, are the Banshee's board-able? Or the Wraiths? Or any Covy vehicle for that matter? I don't recall being able to board in H:CE, only in 2 and after, correct?
Correct. In fact, you'd get splattered if a vehicle so much as knicked you at two miles per hour. You'd have a hard time boarding vehicles with those mechanics. lol

I thought so, been awhile since I played CE. :)
So, if 343 is truthful in saying it's a 'solid' remake, boarding should be out.

[Edited on 11.04.2011 9:42 PM PDT]

  • 11.04.2011 9:41 PM PDT

Name's John. I'm a 21-year-old firefighter/EMT from lolhio who doubles as a die-hard Halo fan. I've been enjoying the franchise since 2001. My favorite iteration of Halo would have to be Halo 2 simply because I never got to experience the joy of a full-on Halo: CE LAN.


If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Oh yeah, and boot Zome.


Posted by: the pib
An aesthetic change would be changing the color or texture or maybe giving it some truck nuts, not adding a big whopping turret that does nothing.
I'm pretty sure that a visual change that affects gameplay in no way (i.e. non-interactive objects) is more or less the definition of an aesthetic change. Let's be honest, the turret probably doesn't even affect the hit-box. It's aesthetic. Regardless of what you want to call it, it doesn't change the fact that it's most likely just there for looks. Again, good find, but there's really no reason to assume that it's going to change gameplay until there's proof that it's operable, be it by players or AI.

  • 11.04.2011 9:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: the pib
An aesthetic change would be changing the color or texture or maybe giving it some truck nuts, not adding a big whopping turret that does nothing. That would be as silly as adding a non-functioning grenade launcher attachment or a scope to the Assault Rifle.

This is like saying the machine gun on the Reach Scorpion's cannon should be usable.

  • 11.04.2011 10:02 PM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.


Posted by: the pib

Posted by: Mikelp_1

Sounds much more possible in the sense that they probably just ripped a newer wraith model and based it off of that currently used model.


The HCEA shotgun looks like the Reach shotgun because the Reach shotgun looks cooler, end of story. Your theory of a big freaking plasma turret that's there just for looks is on a whole different level of weird.

When you look at the Reach quality detail they put into reskinning the AI, vehicles, weapons, skybox, scenery and cut scenes, do you really think it's possible that they just "forgot" to overhaul the Wraith? And I doubt it's even technically possible to "copy and paste" graphical assets from Reach or Halo 3 into a ten year old game.



You're calling MY theory weird when your theory is that the entire game is being played with and is different from what it used to be because there is a turret on a vehicle that wasn't drivable, or manipulatable, to begin with... Then you're saying that the shotgun got a completely different model because it looks cooler; but the wraith can't have a turret attachment that actually contributes nothing to gameplay because THAT looks cooler? Contradiction...

Your theory is that 343 just decided to add a ton of work to their plate for no reason, whatsoever, just so they could defy what they have repeated thousands of times to the public: the game runs the 10 year old engine, is an exact copy of the old game, with a new graphics layer. Thats it. Your only support for your claim that the turret is actually USABLE or MANIPULATABLE is that it is there aesthetically. You have the same logic as: "the health packs in this game require that you hold X to use them instead of just walking over them because they look just like the health packs used in Halo:Reach": you're mixing aesthetics with gameplay; a gameplay that 343 announced to everyone which is an exact copy of the game that was sold 10 years ago.


Also, the game is designed to allow people to constantly switch between old and new graphics whenever they want. With this knowledge, they must have added a turret to the OLD Wraiths too because otherwise, the player and vehicle models would just look like they were meshed together because the models wouldn't agree with each other if the Wraiths were suddenly made usable. So you think they just decided to make attachments to 10 year old models for no reason to allow a coexistence with the current models? On top of this, all they would accomplish with this is that they did a ton of work to tell people "this isn't the CE that everyone remembers, we actually started to play with it for no reason; we lied to you."

The biggest thing that 343 is marketing with Anniversary is NOSTALGIA. Aka this is the same 10 year old game as it was 10 years ago. Why would they do more work to completely screw with their marketing campaign and lie to everyone? The fact that you actually think that 343 did the above and think that any thoughts otherwise is a more strange theory than yours is absolutely absurd...

  • 11.04.2011 10:34 PM PDT

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Posted by: Mikelp_1

Posted by: the pib

Posted by: Mikelp_1

Sounds much more possible in the sense that they probably just ripped a newer wraith model and based it off of that currently used model.


The HCEA shotgun looks like the Reach shotgun because the Reach shotgun looks cooler, end of story. Your theory of a big freaking plasma turret that's there just for looks is on a whole different level of weird.

When you look at the Reach quality detail they put into reskinning the AI, vehicles, weapons, skybox, scenery and cut scenes, do you really think it's possible that they just "forgot" to overhaul the Wraith? And I doubt it's even technically possible to "copy and paste" graphical assets from Reach or Halo 3 into a ten year old game.



You're calling MY theory weird when your theory is that the entire game is being played with and is different from what it used to be because there is a turret on a vehicle that wasn't drivable, or manipulatable, to begin with... Then you're saying that the shotgun got a completely different model because it looks cooler; but the wraith can't have a turret attachment that actually contributes nothing to gameplay because THAT looks cooler? Contradiction...

Your theory is that 343 just decided to add a ton of work to their plate for no reason, whatsoever, just so they could defy what they have repeated thousands of times to the public: the game runs the 10 year old engine, is an exact copy of the old game, with a new graphics layer. Thats it. Your only support for your claim that the turret is actually USABLE or MANIPULATABLE is that it is there aesthetically. You have the same logic as: "the health packs in this game require that you hold X to use them instead of just walking over them because they look just like the health packs used in Halo:Reach": you're mixing aesthetics with gameplay; a gameplay that 343 announced to everyone which is an exact copy of the game that was sold 10 years ago.


Also, the game is designed to allow people to constantly switch between old and new graphics whenever they want. With this knowledge, they must have added a turret to the OLD Wraiths too because otherwise, the player and vehicle models would just look like they were meshed together because the models wouldn't agree with each other if the Wraiths were suddenly made usable. So you think they just decided to make attachments to 10 year old models for no reason to allow a coexistence with the current models? On top of this, all they would accomplish with this is that they did a ton of work to tell people "this isn't the CE that everyone remembers, we actually started to play with it for no reason; we lied to you."

The biggest thing that 343 is marketing with Anniversary is NOSTALGIA. Aka this is the same 10 year old game as it was 10 years ago. Why would they do more work to completely screw with their marketing campaign and lie to everyone? The fact that you actually think that 343 did the above and think that any thoughts otherwise is a more strange theory than yours is absolutely absurd...
What he said.

  • 11.04.2011 10:47 PM PDT

The SP is 100% Halo CE code. The gun was probably just added for Canon reasons and will probably not even be used by enemies.

  • 11.05.2011 12:17 AM PDT
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I had to drop in and admit you guys were right and I was wrong. They just re-used the Halo Reach wraith model, same as they did with the Banshee and Ghost. What a letdown.

  • 11.21.2011 8:02 PM PDT

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