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  • Subject: ODST Invasion walkthrough (save this thread)
Subject: ODST Invasion walkthrough (save this thread)

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Posted by: ferretarmy19872
The bomb for phase 3 spawns at the capture point of the core.


....

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

that's going to be difficult to implement. There needs to be enough of the map left for that to work. Cause that means phase 2 will become useless...

may have to just do Territories Assault Core like Breakpoint. The thing I don't like bout that though is there are mongooses in phase 2, which means players will just rush the bomb on the gooses, and if you're not on a goose you're stuck walking in the streets doing nothing.

I want phase 2 to take place in the streets. phase 1 is either entering the streets or in a plaza. the urban action though comes from phase 2, and if I do reverse core that means both phase 1 and phase 2 belong to spartans during phase 3, and that's too much for the budget.

Unless your map is huge and uses a lot of terrain, phase 1 should be all that the attackers get for spawning. If they get phase 2 you have to make sure phase 3 is enough for defenders to spawn in. Remember--3 battles within a map, not 3 maps. If I go with reverse core I'm gonna end up fighting that design theory. So as cool as it sounded, it's gonna have to get cut.

But that doesn't mean street combat will get cut. If I can find a way to balance it with the tanks (cause there's a scorpion and wraith in phase 3), then I may be able to have a normal core capture. I could even do 2 cores, but I don't want to deal with people saying "why are we carrying the core again?" The thing with core is that you essentially play 5 on 6 since one person has to carry it. I think if it was bomb that effect would lessen since you aren't defenseless with the bomb. That means more combat in the buildings too.

Just don't want people rushing the bomb on gooses... that's too quick for phase 2. Might just have to lose the gooses until phase 3.

[Edited on 12.07.2011 8:01 AM PST]

  • 12.07.2011 7:59 AM PDT

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Actually, now that I think about it I might be able to pull of Reverse Core for phase 2. I can shrink the size of the gateway phase just enough so that spartans still don't occupy more than half of the map. Instead of taking the core the full length of the road, I'll have them take it halfway. They'll carry the core to another supply cache, except this time the supply cache will have a bomb and mongooses. This means that mongooses don't come in until phase 3, but I'll still have ghosts in phase 2 for the Elites.

The trick is always to make sure attackers don't occupy more than half of the map. That'll cause major spawning issues for the defenders unless there's a lot of neutral space dividing the two teams. And even if there is, walking distance is a big factor. Anything over 40 seconds from spawn to objective is vehicular paced, meaning there need to be vehicles or other quick methods (teleporter, man cannon, zip line, etc.) to transport players across the map.

Always remember: 3 battles within a single map, not 3 maps.

  • 12.07.2011 8:23 AM PDT

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Now that I think about it, I might not even need the supply cache in Phase 1. Originally the idea of dropping into the city was hindering development because of the way it had to be built. What if a phase 1 supply cache is hindering development as well?

Maybe they don't need to capture it right away. Maybe they should be capturing it in phase 2 instead. Maybe you take the core to open up the cache, rather than sitting by it for 20 seconds.

This might be a better idea, because it's been quite challenging thinking of a way to incorporate a supply cache with a territory phase. Now that players will be opening it with a one-touch core capture, I can put it in places that otherwise would have been disastrous for combat. For example, I had it built into a building and there were doors right next to it, similar to this image. I then had Elites spawning inside the building so they can walk through the doors and defend the cache. The problem is that most Elites would just hurl nades at the cache, and that wouldn't be fun for the players capturing it. Now that it's one-touch, I wont have to worry about that problem, and I can turn the buildings into a spawn hive for spartans during phase 3.

This thread is really helpful because it allows me to keep track of my design theory and be held accountable for the decisions i've made thus far. It's making the map better--even if i'm the only one replying.

EDIT: This makes more sense--

Phase 1: Capture Oliphant
Phase 2: Deliver Core (spawns inside Oliphant) to supply cache
Phase 3: Assault (bomb and mongooses spawn in cache)

I still don't know what players will be 'assaulting' during Phase 3, but I at least have the proper objectives written down. Phase 1 will be much easier to build for now that the supply cache is in Phase 2. Phase 2 will also be much easier to build because I have a lot of concept art saved in a folder on my PC. I know exactly how I want it to look.

One step closer to victory, gents! Will keep you posted. Thanks again for all the help by the way

[Edited on 12.07.2011 10:44 AM PST]

  • 12.07.2011 10:36 AM PDT


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Now that I think about it, I might not even need the supply cache in Phase 1. Originally the idea of dropping into the city was hindering development because of the way it had to be built. What if a phase 1 supply cache is hindering development as well?

Maybe they don't need to capture it right away. Maybe they should be capturing it in phase 2 instead. Maybe you take the core to open up the cache, rather than sitting by it for 20 seconds.

This might be a better idea, because it's been quite challenging thinking of a way to incorporate a supply cache with a territory phase. Now that players will be opening it with a one-touch core capture, I can put it in places that otherwise would have been disastrous for combat. For example, I had it built into a building and there were doors right next to it, similar to this image. I then had Elites spawning inside the building so they can walk through the doors and defend the cache. The problem is that most Elites would just hurl nades at the cache, and that wouldn't be fun for the players capturing it. Now that it's one-touch, I wont have to worry about that problem, and I can turn the buildings into a spawn hive for spartans during phase 3.

This thread is really helpful because it allows me to keep track of my design theory and be held accountable for the decisions i've made thus far. It's making the map better--even if i'm the only one replying.


Sounds good! You should have phase 1- reverse core, phase 2, assault, phase 3, normal core. Keep the railway station and move the map to alaska so the station can
be in the cave where it is dark. Then phase1= caches w/ RC, phase2= Assault to blast open the stairs to the train, phase 3, normal core from the train to the top of a building where there is a pelican where it captures. Don't worry about the oliphant unless you just want the aesthetic. It would actually be similar to S9 of RvB now that I think about it. w/e, just a thought that would take a lot of work.

  • 12.07.2011 10:47 AM PDT
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Goat, hurry up and finish this map so we can play it. I'm itching for my fix of Invasion and nothing in the playlist is working

  • 12.08.2011 5:32 AM PDT
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If you're reading this, you're bad.

Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before? They should be able to do it cause they have Spartan and Elite-only skirmish. SvS Invasion would eliminate the poor starting weapon dilemma, unless you already did that.

  • 12.08.2011 6:03 AM PDT

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Posted by: A Modest Otter
Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before? They should be able to do it cause they have Spartan and Elite-only skirmish. SvS Invasion would eliminate the poor starting weapon dilemma, unless you already did that.


I would have done this last week if 343's forums were working for me. I still get an error page -__-

  • 12.08.2011 6:49 AM PDT
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Always up for REACH customs!

If you want to organize a playtest of what you have so far tonight, I'm definitely in.

  • 12.08.2011 8:55 AM PDT

Posted by: A Modest Otter
Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before?
That would ruin the abundance of Needle Rifles.

  • 12.08.2011 9:05 AM PDT

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Posted by: the pib
If you want to organize a playtest of what you have so far tonight, I'm definitely in.


If not tonight then tomorrow is definitely on the board :)

  • 12.08.2011 9:26 AM PDT
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What's the 411 goat? How's the map coming along?

  • 12.09.2011 10:24 AM PDT

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Posted by: Lightr Than Some
What's the 411 goat? How's the map coming along?


I'm changing up the phases a little bit again, because the Oliphant is very large and it's difficult to put it anywhere in the streets. I had a 'garage' built into a building to house most of its body (with the front end jutting out for the territory), but this proved to utilize too much budget.

Instead, I'm building a tiny Covenant radar jammer and using that as the phase 1 territory. There will only be one, and once it's destroyed, its core spawns in its place. The core is what will be used in Phase 2.

The trick for phase one is to add height elevation now. This first phase is looking promising though so I'm gonna keep running with it.

Here's to hoping we can test tonight!

[Edited on 12.09.2011 10:35 AM PST]

  • 12.09.2011 10:35 AM PDT

Goat can you explain how the labels work in Invasion? Me and my friend were trying to make one last night but we failed, lol. Couldn't get things to spawn right.

  • 12.10.2011 3:31 AM PDT

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Posted by: Stole Ur Sammich
Goat can you explain how the labels work in Invasion? Me and my friend were trying to make one last night but we failed, lol. Couldn't get things to spawn right.


from my invasion guide...


INVASION: Use this label along with the "Gametype-specific True" label on objects that you only want to appear in Invasion. If your map is multi-purposed for BTB and other gametypes and you do not want walls or shield doors used in Invasion to spawn in those gametypes, this is what you will use to take care of those objects.

INV_WEAPON: This label allows you to spawn an object into the map during a specific phase. It is most commonly used for weapons and vehicles, but can also be used on geometry such as blocks and walls. When you set a weapon to this label, be sure to give it the spawn time that you desire. Also, be sure to set the appropriate phase that you want this weapon to spawn in, as denoted by Spawn Sequence. Values of 1, 2, or 3 correspond to their respective Phases. When you are using this label on any object other than weapons, you must set the spawn time for it to spawn in. Anything above 1 is safe, and if you desire you can chain objects with different values together to create a "sequence" effect. This will be explained in greater detail later in the guide.

INV_VEHICLE: This label is nearly the same as the INV_WEAPON label. The only difference is that it displays an "Ordnance" waypoint similar to those found in Firefight over the object that is spawning in. They help to point out key weapons and vehicles, which is why it is labeled after the latter. The waypoint unfortunately does not display when used on structure.

INV_GATES: This label allows you to cause an object to despawn and leave the match for the rest of the game. It is the only label in the game that can do this. When you select structure to despawn, the Spawn Sequence corresponds to the last phase that you want it to be active during. If I want a wall to disappear after phase 1, I will set its spawn sequence to the value of 1. Spawn Sequence 1 and 2 will be the most used, but later on in the guide I will teach you about "Phase 4" and how to use Spawn Sequence 3 with the INV_GATES label.

INV_OBJECTIVE: This label is used exclusively for Hill Markers, Capture Plates, and Flag Stands (it glitches when used on vehicles). It distinguishes where your destination for that phase will be located. You should only ever have one or two of these active at a time because the third one is glitched and does not emit an audible sound when it's being contested. To use this on any of the above objective pieces, set its label and then the spawn sequence to the appropriate phase. Lastly, be sure to set a desired volume for the objective.

INV_OBJ_FLG: This label determines where your Bomb or Core will spawn for your phase. You can use any of the aforementioned objective pieces to spawn the Bomb and Core at. You will need to use a territory with the INV_OBJECTIVE label to determine where you'll be taking the Bomb or Core to. Territory phases are the only objectives of the three that do not require the INV_OBJ_FLG label to function.

INV_RES_ZONE: Respawn Zones are used to spawn players into the map instead of respawn points. To use this, first place a Hill Marker and then set the appropriate label. This particular label is used for a spawning location that you want active during all of the phases. These are called "Backfield spawns". However, these are not always necessary, so instead focus your attention towards the following labels.

INV_RES_P1, P2, and P3: These labels are used for a spawning location that you only want active during phase 1, 2, or 3. To set this up, first denote whether it will belong to Red Team (Spartans) or Blue Team (Elites). Then, set the label and apply a volume. Players will be able to spawn anywhere within the shape of your set volume. This helps if multiple players choose to spawn at this location. Be sure that the shape doesn't overlap any hazards such as ledges.

Once you have finished applying a shape to the hill marker, you will need to assign it to a Fireteam. Players in an Invasion game are separated into three fireteams of two, and they can only spawn at hill markers specific to their fireteam. Fireteam One's spawns are influenced by Spawn Sequence "0". Fireteam Two's spawns are influenced by Spawn Sequence "1". Fireteam Three's spawns are influenced by Spawn Sequence "2". Be sure to set the appropriate spawn sequence for each hill marker, and make sure that you accommodate all three of the fireteams.

A spawn sequence of 3 or above will be available to all players of that team for that phase. These are called "Community Spawns", and players will be allowed to toggle between them with the D-pad regardless of what fireteam they are on. You can use these for vehicle depots or safer spawns further from the fight.

Another interesting thing to note is that in an 8v8 game of Invasion, you will have two extra players on your team. These players do not become an additional Fireteam, but are instead assigned to Fireteam One and Fireteam Two, respectively. Because of this, any hill marker with a Spawn Sequence of 0 or 1 will have an extra player, whereas a hill marker with Spawn Sequence 2 will remain with two players. Keep this in mind when you're placing spawns in case there's an area that you don't want more than two players spawning at.

INV_MAN_CANNON and INV_PLATFORM: These labels are vestigial on Forge World and are exclusive to Bungie's Invasion maps. You do not need to use them at all. Ever.

INV_CINEMATIC: If you see this label on any map, DO NOT USE IT! It will DELETE all the data on your map by default. It is exclusive for Bungie's Invasion maps.

[Edited on 12.10.2011 6:31 AM PST]

  • 12.10.2011 6:26 AM PDT
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Wow Goat knows his stuff. So how do you do that sequencing thing? That sounds cool

  • 12.10.2011 2:35 PM PDT

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Posted by: Lightr Than Some
Wow Goat knows his stuff. So how do you do that sequencing thing? That sounds cool


All you need to do is chain the spawn time together in a sequence. So you have your first item spawn on 1, then the next spawns on 2, and so forth. Only problem is host migrations could potentially alter the sequence, or ignore it altogether.

It's important to take host migrations into account, especially if you have a vehicle that you don't want spawning in right away. If the screen goes black at all that vehicle will be right there at the beginning of the phase regardless of you telling it not to spawn right away.

  • 12.10.2011 7:12 PM PDT


Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: A Modest Otter
Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before?
That would ruin the abundance of Needle Rifles.

You would. :P

  • 12.10.2011 7:25 PM PDT

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: A Modest Otter
Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before?
That would ruin the abundance of Needle Rifles.

You would. :P
:D

  • 12.10.2011 7:30 PM PDT

Herp derp.

ODST and Invasion together? Interesting.

  • 12.10.2011 8:38 PM PDT


Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: ThreeSixXero
Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: A Modest Otter
Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before?
That would ruin the abundance of Needle Rifles.

You would. :P
:D

ANYONE CAN DO THAT. IT TAKES REAL SKILL TO DO THAT WITH THE DEFAULT MAGNUM.

  • 12.10.2011 9:23 PM PDT

Please don't hype for games...
They'll just fall short of your expectations and you'll complain for months.


Posted by: ThreeSixXero

Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: ThreeSixXero
Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: A Modest Otter
Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before?
That would ruin the abundance of Needle Rifles.

You would. :P
:D

ANYONE CAN DO THAT. IT TAKES REAL SKILL TO DO THAT WITH THE DEFAULT MAGNUM.


*Instant respect*

  • 12.10.2011 10:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: A Modest Otter
Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before?
That would ruin the abundance of Needle Rifles.


Shouldn't have to worry about that since we're apparently spawning with DMRs and NRs in Goat's initial phase.

I'm curious to see how that works out...

Spartan vs Spartan Invasion would be really cool though, and so would Elite vs Elite Invasion. Someone can build the gas mine from H2 and have like a heretic side and Covenant side.

  • 12.12.2011 6:36 AM PDT

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Update:

Bad News--Reverse Core might get cut. Last thing I want is for the core to end up being camped in one of the buildings, or taken the wrong way by a griefing player. Not to mention nobody really wants to carry the core all the way, and I doubt people will be taking turns holding it. And when the Spartans encounter Elites, it'll just be a mess of "core dropped" "core taken" because the guy carrying it will have to step aside. I'd rather do assault for the second phase because bomb carriers are less likely to drop it to fight other players. This means I'll need lots of buildings for him to take cover in. But that still means no mongooses in the second phase (which is fine if the bomb is what opens a supply cache). Then again, Breakpoint managed bomb without vehicle transport, and that's my biggest influence for this map.

Good News--The revelation above means building Phase 2 will be a lot easier than was once presumed. The change also has little affect on Phase 1, which is already built and ready to rumble. Also, the song I want accompanying the map for the release trailer is done :D

Almost there guys. Thanks again to those who support the map.

[Edited on 12.12.2011 8:45 AM PST]

  • 12.12.2011 8:43 AM PDT

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Posted by: Covenant Crates

Posted by: Chief Bigwig
Posted by: A Modest Otter
Have you asked 343i for spartan vs spartan invasion before?
That would ruin the abundance of Needle Rifles.


Shouldn't have to worry about that since we're apparently spawning with DMRs and NRs in Goat's initial phase.


Actually, I think pistols for both sides in phase 1 would be better than spawning with NR/DMR. I want phase 1 to be a little more CQB oriented than the other phases because it's a lot smaller in design. I want players right in the action, and I feel like Elites with NRs will just sit back and shoot from afar. That's no fun :/

Rest assured, there will be some on the map. And this is all before testing. If NR/DMR works out then it'll stay, but I'm designing Phase 1 for pistol usage

[Edited on 12.12.2011 9:48 AM PST]

  • 12.12.2011 9:46 AM PDT
Subject: ODST Invasion development thread

Cool map

  • 12.12.2011 10:13 AM PDT