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  • Subject: ODST Invasion development thread
Subject: ODST Invasion development thread
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please could you put what you have built so far in your file share so I can take a look?

  • 12.12.2011 10:27 AM PDT
Subject: ODST Invasion walkthrough (save this thread)

Posted by: HiredN00bs
Arrogant hyperbolic exclamations of woe? Seems like a normal day for Halo/Bungie.net.

yo vanilla

  • 12.13.2011 9:07 AM PDT
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Goat when you finish lemme know so I can tear your map apart ;-)

  • 12.13.2011 9:59 AM PDT
Subject: ODST Invasion development thread

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Posted by: Prizm HD
please could you put what you have built so far in your file share so I can take a look?


That'd ruin the surprise. Almost there gents!

On a side note, it's been a real challenge trying to build this map. I can built an urban city easily, but there's something about New Mombasa that gives a whole new meaning to urban combat. It's not built block by block like a regular city is. There are twists and turns and highs and lows and buildings lining the streets everywhere.

  • 12.13.2011 3:56 PM PDT
Subject: ODST Invasion development thread (save this thread)

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Update:

I've changed the objectives around and I've finished building Phase 2.

I decided against the idea of opening up the supply cache during Phase 2 instead of Phase 1, because that means ODSTs will occupy too much of the map. Like I said earlier, attackers should never occupy more than half of the map unless phase 3 is as big as phase 1 and 2 combined. This ensures the safest spawning possible for both sides.

A territory to open a supply cache for phase 1 is what I decided on. The reason I made it a territory is because it allows all the players to be active in the fight right off the bat. If I had chosen bomb or core for the first phase, that'd mean somebody would be 'sitting on the sidelines' while the other 5 teammates did all the work. This isn't fair to the one carrying the objective (at least at the start of the game).

Phase 2 is going to have 2 mongooses and 2 ghosts for some light vehicle combat. Originally I was going to have reverse core, but I decided against it. The reason I cut it is because phase 3 would have to be assault. But where would the bomb spawn? If the bomb spawned way back at phase 1, then you'd either have to die and respawn there or double back to pick up the bomb and bring it to phase 3's objective. I suppose I could make the bomb spawn near phase 3's objective, but that'd make arming it really easy.

The only way to make Territories-Rev.Core-Bomb work is to have the core open up another supply cache during phase 2, which (again) means that ODST's will be occupying a lot of the map during phase 3. I don't have enough budget to build a large phase 3, so the only way I could incorporate that would be to make either phase 1 or phase 3 take place outside of the city on terrain.

I suppose that If I put phase 1 in the quarry I could make that work. However, the key though is to make the quarry 'safe-spawnable'. It's quite a small area for 6v6, so I'd have to build some sort of elaborate building there to safe-spawn the ODSTs. And with the quarry, the initial territory (or territories to spread out combat) would be unlocking the gates that lead into the city. I could then build Phase 2 as a 2 long streets for reverse core, and then Phase 3 would be assault. The bomb would then spawn inside of the cache opened up by phase 2's core.

My main problem with the quarry in this instance though is that it wont be a 'fightable area'. In order to safe-spawn spartans, the quarry has to function as a safe spawn, meaning phase 1's fighting still happens in the city.


Hmm....

I'm thinking of this while I type by the way. I don't want to have to rebuild what I have all over again, but if I find a better design that's what I'll end up doing anyway.

Let me think on it and get back to the thread...

[Edited on 12.15.2011 7:40 AM PST]

  • 12.15.2011 7:33 AM PDT

Herp derp.


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Update:
I don't want to have to rebuild what I have all over again, but if I find a better design that's what I'll end up doing anyway.

Let me think on it and get back to the thread...

Yeah, whenever I find out that I can massively improve a map after working on it for a while...it can be very hard to just throw all that work away. :/

  • 12.15.2011 8:32 AM PDT

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Alright here's what we got:

Version 1: Territories, Rev Core, Assault
Version 2: Territories, Territories, Assault
Version 3: Territories, Assault, Core



I have to pick between one of these. Version 1 is what I currently have. The problem with V1 is that the core has to somehow open something for the bomb to spawn in. This is because I don't want players doubling back to get the bomb from Phase 1's area.

V2 is much the same. Unless the bomb spawns near the second territories (which could make it too easy to score afterwards). The good thing with this though is that the mongooses during phase 2 will help get to the territories faster. But that doesn't really make much sense...

V3 is how breakpoint is setup, but part of me wonders if the majority of invasion players are tied of stealing a core in the last phase. So although it makes the most sense, I really don't want to have to do it

Hmm...

  • 12.15.2011 9:01 AM PDT

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What if I thought about this as Objectives?

Phase 1 could be a territory. What if instead of opening a supply cache, they disable a radar jammer? I mentioned this before in an earlier post so I'm going to attempt to revisit it.

P1: Disable small radar jammers (territory)
P2: Deliver Core to supply cache (reverse core)
P3: Destroy large radar jammer with bomb? (assault)

Either way, there needs to be a supply cache at some point. If it's during phase 1, that means gooses will be available in phase 2. If it's during phase 2, that means vehicles wont be available until phase 3. But since I have tanks during phase 3, vehicle players wont get to enjoy their gooses and ghosts...

UGH! ROADBLOCK!

Hmm...

Nah, supply cache has to be Phase 1 so mongooses can come in during phase 2. so what does phase 2 entail? I can't do assault because i don't want people rushing the bomb on the mongoose. I only plan on having 2 gooses, which leaves 2 players to walk.

Hmm...

P1: Territory--open supply cache to gain access to new weapons and vehicles

P2: Rev Core--open another cache for bomb? maybe throw a few new weapons in there as well? But then what happens to the original cache? And how is the map built to allow safe spawning
for phase 2 as well? What if changing spawning locations becomes confusing?

No. P2 can't introduce new spawns, so that's out of the question. If there is Rev Core, it has to be taken to open some sort of gate.

P3: And then this would have to be assault...if I can get a close bomb spawn to work. At this point, the ODSTs are too far away to walk on foot or double back to get a bomb. Maybe they will need those new spawns...

Sigh... back to the drawing board!

  • 12.15.2011 9:21 AM PDT
Subject: ODST Invasion walkthrough (save this thread)
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How's it coming along, Goat? Just played a match of Boneyard today and it made me anxious to play yours. I'm sick of Bungie's crap

  • 12.16.2011 3:17 PM PDT

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Posted by: Covenant Crates
How's it coming along, Goat? Just played a match of Boneyard today and it made me anxious to play yours. I'm sick of Bungie's crap


one final effort is all that remains.

building phase 3.

  • 12.16.2011 3:59 PM PDT
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The 343 forums suck. They're full of retarded kids and mods who got butthurt in the B.net forums for being told that they're bad.

I remember that when you first started the map, you were having trouble with not having enough pieces without modding. I'm guessing you got around that?

  • 12.16.2011 4:05 PM PDT

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Posted by: B Rye
I remember that when you first started the map, you were having trouble with not having enough pieces without modding. I'm guessing you got around that?


I can make the map exactly how I want it with 99 walls, but I want to see it in MM so I can't use a modded canvas. The biggest challenge has been (and still is) the design of the layout, which had to not only keep the 50 wall limit, but also be budget friendly and framerate friendly as well.

If it was any random city I would have been done already. But it's ODST, and it has to look and feel a certain way to live up to its moniker.

  • 12.16.2011 4:08 PM PDT

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I also want to address an issue a few players brought up while I was researching Invasion:

Q: Defenders spawn too quickly and/or too close to the objective. Why?

A: If it were any other gametype, I would agree that it could be ridiculous playing an objective and having the enemy team spawn right on top of it. However, it makes sense for Invasion. If they spawn too far away, the Attackers will be able to spawn camp them while they capture the objective. That isn't fair to the defending team. They sit on their respawn screen for 7 seconds (longer if they spawning on battle bro), and chances are their teammates will be dying just as they respawn. This leaves a few guys active at a time, which could spell disaster if the Attackers decided to approach their spawns.

So my advice is to test spawning for both teams until it appears balanced. Don't make Defenders move too much in Phase 1, otherwise it'll be too easy to capture the phase and to spawn camp them.

  • 12.16.2011 4:12 PM PDT

Posted by: aBlueBookshelf
Goat was famous. Irie was infamous. Gh0st was FaMaS.

My stats in Halol 4

Typical Waypoint post.
no it's "its got to go" you wouldn't say the "it is got to go" would you?

mad bad.

  • 12.19.2011 7:05 AM PDT

I'd lol so hard if it was -Blam-

  • 12.19.2011 7:08 AM PDT

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Posted by: mcclintonsl
I'd lol so hard if it was -Blam-


you mean if the map turned out to be bad?

  • 12.19.2011 7:39 AM PDT
Subject: ODST Invasion development thread (save this thread)

Yeah.

[Edited on 12.19.2011 7:45 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2011 7:44 AM PDT

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I'd probably laugh my ass off too, which is why I'm doing all I can to ensure it doesn't suck monkey nuts when I'm finished. I'm paying attention to everything--even how the map would play should 1 or 2 players from either team quit.

The amount of vigilance I have is probably going to end up killing me once the project is done. :p

  • 12.19.2011 7:49 AM PDT

Starting a poll now.

Which is going to come first, the Halo 4 beta or Goat's ODST map?

  • 12.19.2011 7:52 AM PDT
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inb4hehastrolledyouallforoverayear



No but seriously, it looks nice and exactly how much have you completed so far?

[Edited on 12.19.2011 7:59 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2011 7:58 AM PDT

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Posted by: Apocalypse
inb4hehastrolledyouallforoverayear



No but seriously, it looks nice and exactly how much have you completed so far?


It only takes like 12 hours to build the map from head to toe. It's taken this long because I've been building concepts to test everything from Line of Sight, spawning, vehicle combat, budget minimization, and new aesthetics. At one point I built a map with 3 Oliphants on it. The past 6 weeks have just been concept builds.

Long story short, the map is more or less done at this point and I'm budgeting it by swapping out pieces.

  • 12.19.2011 8:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: Apocalypse
inb4hehastrolledyouallforoverayear



No but seriously, it looks nice and exactly how much have you completed so far?


It only takes like 12 hours to build the map from head to toe. It's taken this long because I've been building concepts to test everything from Line of Sight, spawning, vehicle combat, budget minimization, and new aesthetics. At one point I built a map with 3 Oliphants on it. The past 6 weeks have just been concept builds.

Long story short, the map is more or less done at this point and I'm budgeting it by swapping out pieces.


Sounds good, I've had an idea recently and this could help.

  • 12.19.2011 8:11 AM PDT

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It's rather unfortunate that I can't start players in drop pods or simulate a drop. I'm looking through the original concept and it's so ingenuitive. Sadly, there will be those players that complain about taking damage off of spawn (regardless of the spawn being protected), and that'll be enough to disqualify the map from possible MM integration.

Well, I got lemons so I guess I gotta make lemonade.

[Edited on 12.19.2011 9:54 AM PST]

  • 12.19.2011 9:53 AM PDT


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Sadly, there will be those players that complain about taking damage off of spawn (regardless of the spawn being protected), and that'll be enough to disqualify the map from possible MM integration.

Well, I got lemons so I guess I gotta make lemonade.

umm, y u no invincible 5 second spawn traits or custom power ups?

  • 12.19.2011 10:14 AM PDT

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Posted by: mcclintonsl

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Sadly, there will be those players that complain about taking damage off of spawn (regardless of the spawn being protected), and that'll be enough to disqualify the map from possible MM integration.

Well, I got lemons so I guess I gotta make lemonade.

umm, y u no invincible 5 second spawn traits or custom power ups?


spawn traits only work on respawn, and 6 custom power ups cost 300 bucks (which is the price of the simulated drop). So that's 600 bucks for something that'll literally last a few seconds.

I might still be able to do it actually...

  • 12.19.2011 10:22 AM PDT